Replies

1. 
   splintergroupie_ | Nov 29, 2000 04:19am | #1

   *
   Expensive: concrete, pretty

   Inexpensive: road base (mix of clay and sand, small stones), more rustic

   Outside the box: geotextiles (check "Amoco")

1. 
   jcallahan | Nov 29, 2000 04:30am | #2

   *Dirt ...and a good 4x4

1. 
   Mongo_ | Nov 29, 2000 04:57am | #3

   *Concrete can get eaten by salt and gouged by plows...it can start to look ratty if abused. But a well placed concrete drive can last for years if properly maintained. Plain old broom-type finish, stamped, exposed aggregate...the choices and prices are varied.Pavers, cobblestones, etc...much depends on your budget and taste.I'm anti-asphalt myself, but if the day ever comes when I need to take my 800' long driveway beyond what it is now...crushed stone...I may opt for a modified asphalt driveway.The base is traditional asphalt. Cover that with a layer of emulsified liquid asphalt, then spread and roll pea gravel into the surface.The treatment semi-disguises the black tar ball underneath. The pea gravel gives an extra bit of needed winter traction, a longer lasting wear layer, and gives the drive a slightly rustic stone look.More durable then what I've got now, not as ugly as straight asphalt, and price-wise, in between asphalt and concrete. I'll miss my crushed stone, though...I do enjoy the sound of the stone when I come and go...There was a pretty good article about 2 years ago in FHB...fall of '98 I think. It described several toppings, but more importantly gave good ideas for a base layer.

1. 
   Pete_Shlagor | Nov 29, 2000 07:51am | #4

   *Splintergroupie had a great idea about carpeting his driveway. Made me jealous!

1. 
   splintergroupie_ | Nov 29, 2000 08:07am | #5

   *Yeah, but the missus is griping about the cost of vacuum bags... ;-)

2. 
   Phill_Giles | Nov 29, 2000 08:16am | #6

   *Is that, like, b macadam ? Use Rhinophalt as a surface binder to add life.

3. 
   Mongo_ | Nov 29, 2000 08:31am | #7

   *I don't believe so. To me, macadam is simply applying several alternating layers of oil and gravel, then rolling it. Could be regional lingo, though.I'm referring to a full layer of regular old hot asphalt applied as you would for a standard driveway. Then apply the binder, then roll on the pea gravel.It's more along the lines of a decorative topping for an asphalt drive then a throwback to macadam.

4. 
   Mongo_ | Nov 29, 2000 08:34am | #8

   *Yer bin ter Sveden fer da big operashun, ve sees.

5. 
   splintergroupie_ | Nov 29, 2000 08:53am | #9

   *Yeah, but they botched it: i'm still blonde.

6. 
   Phill_Giles | Nov 29, 2000 09:58am | #10

   *Well, that's how they make macadam these days: big gravel, asphalt, small stone with a binder (either thined asphalt or a portland slurry).

7. 
   Qtrmeg_ | Nov 29, 2000 04:12pm | #11

   *No matter what you use to "pave" you need to have a well drained gravel base, lose the clay Splinty.A couple of options I like are recycled asphalt with peastone compacted into the top, or hardpack which is crushed stone and stonedust, and varies in appearance depending on location. Both are very economical and durable. Go to different pits around you and see what is availible in your area.

8. 
   splintergroupie_ | Nov 29, 2000 06:10pm | #12

   *If i "lose the clay" i'd have to truck the whole place away!The carpet is actually working well to keep the gravel i laid over it from disappearing, and the original thrust, to avoid having to pull weeds. Also using it under rocks for battered retaining walls for daylight basement.Just found out about the recycled asphalt--cost the same ($10/yd.) as gravel, but the color makes the snow melt faster. People have just spread it here, not rolled it in, so don't think it would stand up to a snowplow--i've asked about rolling it, no one seems to know about that. What "compactng" do you mean, cars or a roller, please?

9. 
   jcallahan | Nov 29, 2000 07:38pm | #13

   *John, what is "medium length"?

10. 
    Chip_Tam | Dec 02, 2000 07:37pm | #14

    *Ok, this is a little off the subject and probably won't work if you have a long driveway, need to use it every day, and must plow it in the winter. Still, a grass lawn driveway works for me. When we bought our 1880 era house about 15 years ago there was a short driveway leading from the street to a 1920's detached garage (aka my shop). The driveway may have had crushed stone at one time but the back lawn grass had taken over. We thought about putting in a new driveway but never have. We can park on the street most days but, when we need to unload things, the grass driveway works fine. I shovel it in the winter so we can park off the street if we need to but we try to avoid using it much in March when things get pretty muddy. In May, I'll throw down a little more grass seed but I usually don't need to do much patching. Well, it may not be an ideal solution for most folks but it sure looks a lot nicer than the alternatives.

11. 
    splintergroupie_ | Dec 02, 2000 07:50pm | #15

    *This is where the geotextiles come in; they provide a support surface for vehicles while not encountering the usual problems of a hard surface such as drainage and maintenance, while allowing the grass to grow through and disguise them. I know about them from their use on logging roads that don't justify paving.

12. 
    George_W._Carpenter | Dec 03, 2000 12:30am | #16

    *JP, years back... a relatively soft stone "Feldspar" was used as a compactable surface. When trafficed, it created a stone dust, which compacted into a yet-firmer surface.

13. 
    bill_curry | Dec 03, 2000 01:09am | #17

    *Could the problem be the base and not the topping? adding asphalt or concrete to a bad base won't fix anybodies problem. In a few cases I've had to remove a foot or two of fill and replace with compacted fill. A moment to explain about what compacted means. When you're working on a driveway or slab fill dumping dirt in the hole and running the loader over the site a few times is not compacting. When compacting you add a small amount of fill and tamp with a roller or jumping jack. This allows the fill to compact from the top to the bottom and stops those nasty potholes from forming.

14. 
    arv_stoenetr | Dec 03, 2000 05:27am | #18

    *sdfgr ,.]]

15. 
    Qtrmeg_ | Dec 03, 2000 04:30pm | #19

    *Splinty, I am beginning to think that you may be coming from a different part of the country/planet than me. Around here, (New Hampshire), we have a little something called mudseason. To prevent sinking to China it is neccessary to remove any organic material, build up a gravel base, and control drainage before you even think of topcoating.There are many shortcuts and tricks, but in the long run it is more economical to adhere to proven construction techniques. For instance, my drive is 1700 ft over a silt base, with a cross grade gently sloping. The cost of the culverts, gravel and machine work worked out to something like 30k ten years ago. Had this drive been improperly constructed that would have amounted to 30k literally down the drain. You also have to understand that a driveway like this needs periodic maintainence to prevent washout, etc.As for rolling or compacting, mine was compacted with a 9ton machine with a vibrating roller in the front and tires on the back, similar to what I would expect you would see rolling asphalt paving. Obviously a small drive could be done with a plate compactor, or you could just let traffic compact your fill. By letting traffic compact your fill you tend to have uneven results, to be honest most people don't go to the expense of compacting unless it is dictated by contract. Another reason for the geotec fabric, besides letting the grass grow up thru, is to provide some horizontal stability to the gravel base when a downward force is applied. For instance, during mudseason the subsoil is saturated and very soft, if you allow a concrete truck to drive on your driveway you can imagine the force punching thru the base into the muck, forcing the muck up on the sides of the tires. Given reasonable loads for the design of your driveway the geotec fabric will help to maintain the integrety of the gravel base. Not a great analogy, but I think you should get the point.Ps. John, if you are interested in going with hardpack the very best comes from up by New London, looks great and packs like concrete. If you tell me where you are from I probably know where you could look locally.

16. 
    splintergroupie_ | Dec 03, 2000 06:29pm | #20

    *My thoughts exactly.

17. 
    splintergroupie_ | Dec 03, 2000 06:54pm | #21

    *Qtrmeg, i'm absolutely sure we come from really similar parts of the same planet, mudseason and all, but we've learned to deal with our real estate differently. I posted a variety of solutions, and gave one that has not really proven itself over time, granted, only for the six years i've been here, and it only has cost about $500 for gravel. You call it a shortcut or trick, and that's fine by me; my problem is solved and i didn't spend half the cost again of my ten acres ranchette to do it. What i asked you about specifically (post 5.1) re compacting was the recycled asphalt material you cited; did you write about your own drive because it's made of this material? Not clear...but i would still like to know if you're still willing to explain.

18. 
    CaseyR_ | Dec 06, 2000 04:55am | #22

    *Splintergroupie - thanks for the idea of the geotextile for use on driveways. May be just the thing I need for my occasional use driveway to my shop. Did a quick net search and found that there are a bunch of suppliers but only a couple of sites that give much information (one of them did, however, give some information on using geotextiles for a low cost retaining wall, which might prove useful - http://www.nilex.com/appsgeot.html )On your road/driveway using geotextile material, did you just lay the fabric over the existing soil and cover with a thin layer of gravel, or did you prepare the substrate and possibly put the fabric below the previous level of the ground? What was the recommendation/experience on the type/size of gravel covering?

19. 
    Mike_Smith | Dec 06, 2000 05:26am | #23

    *casey... i'd guess that your local highway dept. is looking into , or already using .. geotextiles.. and they may have a good recipe for your local conditions..if they don't ... find out why not ?... they should be up the learning curve with Geotechnical Fabrics...here's the publication of GFR....http://www.ifai.com/PubsDetails.php?PubID=5

20. 
    splintergroupie_ | Dec 06, 2000 07:30am | #24

    *Casey, nothing so grand on my own drive! I used old carpet i got for free, laid it directly on the clay which was at least 8' deep at that spot, and covered it about 3-4" deep in sewer rock, about $10 a yard here. (Did another with 3/4" and it's easier to walk on for circle drive at the main-level door.) I had the best luck laying it face down so the nap gets filled with dirt and spiking it at the corners into the soil. The nice thing about the gravel is that it doesn't effectively raise the entrance to my daylight basement as water can drain through it. That's MY "geotextile", but if you want hi-tech, i'd check out the logging outfits for their sources (if you have any left in that part of the country)--my ex is a logging engineer, went to school in Corvallis, explained its use to me. The place in Missoula where i get my EPDM carries it, i believe, so you might check out such a supplier in your area. It's not that cheap, however, and kind of overkill probably for what you'd need. Retaining walls: experimenting with soil-packed tires now!

21. 
    Andy_Engel_ | Dec 06, 2000 06:56pm | #25

    *SG, back in Joisey, we called them road millings and they could usually be had for the cost of the trucking, at the right time and place. A buddy of mine did his 10-to-15% grade, 1000-ft. long driveway with them. Spread 'em with a D4, and compacted 'em with, if memory serves, a 10-ton vibratory roller. The driveway has held up well over the past 5 years. It almost looks paved. One key is to spread and compact the millings in warm weather.The driveway article is in FHB issue 118. Andy

22. 
    splintergroupie_ | Dec 06, 2000 07:18pm | #26

    *"Road millings"-thanks, Andy. I have a 220' drive to deal with next year and will try this. BTW, really enjoyed the "minimum wage" article in FHB; good to see a philosophy that doesn't start and end with the dollar sign.

23. 
    Andy_Engel_ | Dec 06, 2000 08:50pm | #27

    *Thanks for the good words SG. Except for my own edits, I haven't read the new issue yet. I'm off to your side of the country tomorrow, and I'll read it on the plane. I am waiting for the complaints that we're showing too much ankle.

2. 
   John_Pontius | Dec 06, 2000 08:50pm | #28

   *
   I am looking for a material other than asphalt to pave my medium length NH driveway. Any suggestions that can handle a plow but looks nice?