Best natural gas tankless water heater?
Hello All,
I know that there has been ton’s of posts about tankless water heaters. I myself own an older Bosch Aquastar model 125S. It works fine but I am looking for something with more capacity (the magical two simultanous showers in the winter).
In previous posts Rinnai has been mentioned favorably as has the Bosch.
The big box stores carry Paloma (which rebrands the same heater as Rheem, Rheem-Ruud and Richmond) and Bosch-yes I know that is not really a reccomendation.
The other brand that I have seen is takagi.
I was wondering if any of these have stood out above the rest for any of you?
Thanks,
Daniel Neuman
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Replies
Dan,
I used a Rinnai after much research. Here is a link and a pic of the exterior box that I built an enclosure for.
http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-b
View Imagereaktime&msg=79773.102#a102
Bosch makes a 250 size also. Guessing that is twice the heat capacity of the 125....
If you want to install the Rinnai, I say forget it - as I understand it, Rinnai will only honor the warranty through licensed plumbers/installers.
Takagi will honor the warranty to a homeowner installing the unit.
Edited 4/27/2007 11:07 am ET by formulaross
Sounds like a reasonable warrantee disclaimer to me.
J. D. ReynoldsHome Improvements
"If you want to install the Rinnai, I say forget it - as I understand it, Rinnai will only honor the warranty through licensed plumbers/installers"We have two LPG Rinnai space heaters that I installed, and the warranty has no such exclusion. When one of the circulating fans developed a problem, I called a local HVAC company and they fixed it under warranty. It was mid-November and Rinnai's service was fantastic - they even overnighted the repair parts to get our heater back in operation before a cold snap hit.
We put in a Noritz and have been happy with it. It's pretty comparable to Takagi.
i installed the big bosch unit in my ex-wife's house last week. it seems to do just fine pulling two showers at a time. aside from the reaming she took on the vent parts, it was an ok deal. also, you get $300 in tax credit for installing one this year.
i bought at lowes because they have it. beware that they have no clue what they have, or what is required for venting. one store proudly had the horizontal through the wall vent kit. when i told them this was a veritical vent through the roof, all i got was a dumb look. they don't even know how to order it here. i ended up at the local plumbing supply house.
one problem i ran into was that it takes 3 inch vent, rather than the 4 most seem to use. i was able to get an adapter, for another $62.
By big Bosch do you mean the 250?
I was hoping to get a better idea of if one of the makes/models stood out above the rest but I don't think that I am hearing that here. The Rinnai looks nice and if I install it outside no venting to worry about.
Daniel Neuman
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
bosch 2400e, which replaced the 250
I need more ideas. Anyone help me ?
https://www.finehomebuilding.com
leonoro, I installed a Takagi 175K btu NG water heater almost 2 yrs ago It's the same as AO Smith just cheaper. From the research I've done it looks like people undersize the unit too often and then complain abot low flow in multiple draw situations. I live in Minnesota and it still performs well even when inlet water temperatures are in the high 30"s low 40's. I may consider adding a buffer tank to the installation to reduce the wait time for hot water on the longest run. That;s my only negative right now. Manual was well written and installation was not difficult. Energy savings vs electric was huge for me, though water bill is higher due to longer showers. ;-)
Hope that helps.
The best brand of tankless natural gas for me is Rinnai at https://waterguides.org. Price is worth to spend. For me this natural gas tankless is the finest water heater that I am using. However, I can only use this indoor. The heater is enough to accommodate my whole house. However, many buyers compare this to Takagi which is not really my choice. The tankless natural gas is lower my monthly bill than other electric tankless.
Thank you for the conversation. I am also considering a 6.6 GPM, 140K BTU outdoors water heater for an addition and have the choice of AO Smith or RInnai at comparable pricing. The AO Smith is a trusted brand but the Rinnai has a mobile app interface to program and control the heating. Normally I am not a big fan of apps but it makes sense to me for a water heater placed outside the home.
Also, are these heaters particularly loud. Someone mentioned to me that these can be as loud as 85dB, basically a leafblower. Any feedback on this would be helpful.
I've sold a lot of Naviens (IMO the best unit available) and now I find myself recommending electric water heaters. If there aren't convenience benefits (most notably endless hot water), the benefits are highly speculative. Since cost of heating hot water requires a magnifying glass, any fractional savings end up being pretty hard to see.
My perspective has evolved thusly: Installing an expensive gas appliance that makes that home gas infrastructure biased and gas dependent for the next 15 years is a disservice to the environment and the homeowner.
Air source heat pump technology has made technological and efficiency gains similar to computers and TV's, they are a completely different item. They now heat cheaper than gas, so the argument for a furnace has been erased. I HATE cooking on electric, but induction stove tops have removed that sacrifice - they actually cook better than gas.
The argument that electric hot water is more costly is correct. But getting rid of the gas meter in my area saves significant meter charges, taking a $100-150 monetary penalty and turning it into $100-150 reward. I've dumped a couple gas meters and am saving $450+ per year.
The final dagger, solar PV has gotten so cheap I'd rather have them spend the increment buying production rather than spurious efficiency. With electric hot water people can produce the energy they consume. Not many can produce their own methane.
The person who could make us all look like kindergarteners when it comes to hot water is Gary Klein - I think he's one of the world's foremost experts on hot water. Maybe he'll comment.
Issues of water savings and energy savings are separate, and I think many tankless installs do neither. Other details like supply line design, the need for buffer tanks, proper recirc, etc add complexity to design that never makes it to install.
Bad install design means short pulls heat up lines without getting hot water at the tap. A lot of gas is burned very inefficiently (high CO/NOX) without delivering ANY hot water, and this cycling unnecessarily beats up the equipment. Or long purges waiting for hot wastes a lot of water.
If you don't like it, I recommend the Takagi: https://ioutdooryou.com/best-takagi-tankless-water-heaters-reviews/
Customer is inquiring about having a 29KW unit installed in a residence.
Specs call for (3) x 40A Circuits.
Should the Poco be contacted before something like this is installed?
First off I need to verify customer service size.
I do know that many of the pole mounted Xfmrs around here are 25Kva.
Anybody here routinely install these types of units??
Mfgr spec states: "Dwelling must be supplied by a 200A electrical service"
Just doesn't seem practical to try to add this amount of load.
https://waterguru101.com/rheem-tankless-water-heater/