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The contractor we are working with says that we should not use an all wood front door. He says it will warp and recommends fiberglass. I like the way wood looks. The door will be protected by a front porch. Does anyone have any suggestions and/or sources for well constructed wood doors?
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Replies
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I agree wholeheartedly with your contractor. I've installed all types of doors over the last 12 years and the fiberglass doors are the best by far. Wood doors require yearly maintenace especially to make sure the finish is still protecting. Fiberglass doors are set and forget. You can stain a fiberglass door to look just like wood from 3 feet away but you may have a problem finding someone skilled enough to do it (I did). Therma-Tru guaratees their fiberglass doors unconditionally for life, what more can you say!
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Aesthetics are paramount for front entrys. Fiberglass would be fine on a trailer or rental house.
*I like fiberglass doors. Goes along with my "can't use too much plastics" moto. But, in defence of wood doors, I've got two on my house that are probably a hundred years old or more. They're alittle twisted, could use another coat of paint (one is poly'd), and look 100 years old. But they're in good shape. If you want stability, go with fiberglass or even steel, if you want wood, keep it painted or sealed and I think it will be fine.
*I "wood" agree with everyone above, but the thing you did'nt say was whether or not you wanted a natural look (wood) or painted door. Wodd is a great looking thing, but with the look comes maintinance. If your going to paint the door anyway, very few people will notice if it's fiberglass and is vertually maint. free.
*If you want the best door that money can buy, go woth a Cobalt door. They are longer lasting than fiberglass, have the beauty of wood, and are stronger than steel. They will not rust, warp, crack, fade, or peel. They also cost about $2,000.00 each (door slab only)Wood entry doors here have been on some of these homes for many, many years, and still look good. They are a high maintenance item, and most people don't want a high maintenance item. This is one reason why a lot of people here have been going with steel or fiberglass doors. When protected by a porch, the most damaging of the elements (uv rays, and rain/moisture) have been eliminated, or at least greatly reduced. This will increase the life of the door finish tremendously. There are many wooden door units on the market now that are truly works of art. Not only are they beautiful, but they are made of SOLID mahogany, SOLID oak, Solid birch, etc... Most of the veneered doors are still around, but the solid door units are getting more and more popular. When these door units are properly prepped and installed, (and maintained) you should get a lifetime of use from them. Depending on where you live, and the climate that the door will be exposed to, you may or may not have to continually maintain the door's finish. There are many good finishes on the market that last longer than ever before. This is a choice that you will have to make. We can only offer OUR opinions here, and the ultimate opinion about looks will have to be yours. Maybe your contractor knows something about your climate that we don't. If you are happy with this contractor, and trust his judgement, go with his recommendations and opinions.Just a thought...James DuHamel
*James DuHamel:Cobalt doors are new to me. Who makes them? Next Door Company makes some very cool and expensive Stainless Steel doors.
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Anyone use the stain able steel doors that resemble wood? I would also like some info on the cobalt doors. What are some good quality brands of fiberglass and steel?
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Hawkeye - Just took delivery on a Morgan 7000 series 1 3/4" six-panel exterior door - this is a nice product for paint, well-finished with only a bit of prep needed on raised panel cuts. My only (slight) beef is that the raised panels don't quite come up flush with the stiles and rails.
Exposure and moisture make a big difference. Porch overhang and non-Southern exposure in temperate climates are better than flush, no overhang, South-facing in Southern US, etc.
Jeff Clarke
*I've used the Therma-Tru fiberglass doors because they look like wood when stained or painted.Lately I've been installing Armstrong steel insulated doors with smoolth or wood grain finish. These doors are acually Perma-Doors that this company pre-paints or stains to one of their or the customers colors, then hangs them on a wood jamb or a steel replacement frame.
*Hello Chris,I checked with the company that I saw these doors at, and asked them for the info. Things have changed a bit. The company was buying these doors under a different name (Cobalt) and reselling them. These doors are still available, but now the original manufacturer (Pease Doors) is selling them to the public. They are selling them (complete) under the name Carbon Door System.These doors are a carbon composite, and can withstand corrosive salt and wind of the seacoast better than steel or wood, and in extremely cold climates, they will resist thermal bow better than fiberglass. The company claims that they have two woodgrain patterns that can be stained, painted with acrylic latex paint, or left alone. They come in two widths (2' 8" and 3' 0 ") and one height (6' 8") You can check them out at peasedoors.com, or you can call their toll free number at 1-800-883-6677James DuHamel
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joe d, I don't think you are being fair when you say fiberglass doors are ok for a trailer park or rental. I've installed fiberglass doors on million dollar homes with great success in both use and esthetics. When properly stained, they look like wood from 3 feet away. They also undersell most wood doors and have, I believe, superior quality.
*Kevin, I agree. the Therma-Tru "Clssic Craft" looks just like real wood. I really had to get close to make sure it wasn't oak, even then it was hard to tell.
*Anyone have a web site, phone #, or address for Therma-tru?
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For variety, durability,beauty and workability, I still don't believe wood can be beat. 100 years from now those fiberglass doors may prove me wrong but I still think that at the front of the house where everyone comes and goes You can't beat wood. I've gotten more steel door replacements this year than wood and I have to admit that I have not gotten any fiberglass door replacements. I have seen doors that were 100 years old but all of them were wood. My choice is wood. Skip
*Hey Bill,web site for Therma-Tru is http://www.therma-tru.comphone number is 1-800-843-7628address is: Therma-Tru 1687 Woodlands Dr. Dept. TH699' Maumee, Ohio 43537Hope this helps ya outJames DuHamel
*I think fiberglass doors look tacky. I'm not trying to be fair merely stating my opinion. Tony i don't care if you agree with me, i'm surprised you give a rats ass about my opinion at all. I understand that other don't share my perception. The positive support you and others have given fiberglass will help me look twice at those doors in the future. I would compare taking plastic and making it look like wood to: fake wood grain station wagons, fake wood grain p-lam in all its forms, and wall clocks that have the shape of teapots.If i seem at all rude the last few days please excuse this as i've been a little out of sorts. Root canal this morning, need i say more.My wood doors look great, my wife knows how to use a paint brush. (;-)joe d
*I don't know what all the complaints are with wood but I definately don't like steel doors. They look ok until they get dented or dinged, then they look like hell. I live in the temperate, but wet, Pacific Northwest, and I haven't had any problems with the VG Fir (have to bow my head when I say that) raised panel door on the South face of my house. I put a couple coats of exterior Varethane on it 15 years ago, and it's in great shape.
*Joe, sorry to hear about your recent dental experience.I'm on record here for my dislike of vinyl siding and vinyl windows, but I do like the Therma-Tru fiberglass door, especially the "Classic" series, which has an edge that looks pretty much like a real wood door. The Therma-Tru "Smooth Star" fiberglass door does not have the fake wood grain that shouts "PLASTIC!", and even has faint rail and stile lines. The inside corners of raised panels are crisp and sharp, unlike stamped steel doors. With a few brush marks in the paint, it's hard to tell these quality doors from the "real thing". Sometimes, with the colonial architecture we have here in Tidewater VA, wooden doors take a real beating, and the steel doors just get dented and rust away.Anyhow, that's my take on the subject... Check this product out when you have the opportunity.Regards, Steve
*Hawkeye,
View Image © 1999-2000"The first step towards vice is to shroud innocent actions in mystery, and whoever likes to conceal something sooner or later has reason to conceal it." Aristotle
*Fiberglass? For the first thing somebody sees on your home? You've got to be kidding. Joe D said it best.
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View Image © 1999-2000"The first step towards vice is to shroud innocent actions in mystery, and whoever likes to conceal something sooner or later has reason to conceal it." Aristotle
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Thanks Jim, I have 3 sets of 12 year old Peach Tree french doors that have rusted from the inside out that I have to replace. The rust showed up at about 5 years and Peach Tree would not do ANYTHING to help. What a peice of junk --- What a sorry product and company.
PS. The lift system in my Peach Tree windows lasted 1 year. They did give me the parts to fix the windows -- my labor!
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Any steel door that is painted, (or that you don't mind painting after), can be brought back to look like new after a ding using bondo. Very easy to use, and after being painted again, you'd never know there's been a ding.
Whereas any accident bad enough to put a ding in a metal door will likely cause damage to a wooden door that will be very difficult to cover or hide aestheticly.
*Dents in steel doors are very easily fixed, and if you take only half as much care of them as you have to do for a wood door, it will never rust away.As for beatings, steel will take much more of a beating than wood does before it has to be fixed.There is nothing wrong with having a preference for wooden doors, but don't predicate that preference on false, made-up 'facts'. Nor try to justify that preference by unjustly denegrating other types of doors.
*Luka - You said "As for beatings, steel will take much more of a beating than wood does before it has to be fixed." that has not been my experience. Almost every time I give in and install a steel door at the customer's insistance, it gets dinged up and looks like hell within a year. I am at the point where I am telling folks that I will not stand behind these doors in any way and do not reccomend them. As a side note - last week I installed my first fiberglass door as a part of a basement bath remodel, and I like the looks of it. As for wood doors needing all kinds of maintanance, I guess I've just been lucky, because that has not been the case for me.
*I'm with Joe D. all the way on this. I'd go with wood to the point of practicality--and with a porch overhang to protect the door, it's practically a no-brainer.Maintenance: varnish with Manowar, 3 coats. wait 5 years. Do it again. Wow, that's really tough. Just for fun, I did some hatch lids on my boat about 6 years ago, oak with varnish. They now need to be refinished. And all the boat does is sit in the weather 100% of the time. Sun (direct) snow, rain, bird crap, fish guts, salt water, people and dogs walking all over the hatch covers, and maintenance free for 6 years. A front door would not be subject to a fourth of that kind of abuse.For paint grade, I might not care too much. But if you want something to look like wood, it better be wood. Everything else is tacky.MD***
*Hmmmm, Ok, I'm a little bit comvinced. I got to thinking about what we meant by the word 'beating'. It occured to me that my door/s do not take a beating like they may in a house with a whole fambly living there. ie, I never kick the door to get it open. First of all, my doors are always kept free from sticking. Second, I'm not a 3-10 year old with so little strength I have to get the door 'started' that way. Third, if one of my dogs scratched on the door they would get a chewing out, and would not be let in as they desired.All that kicking would be leaving smaller dings in the wood and the steel both. It may not be noticeable in the wood for a while, but would be noticed right away in the steel. The dogs would cause more initial damage in the wood, but if the steel were not fixed, it would rust.Anyway, bottom line, I am going to keep my steel doors because I like the extra strength keeping people out of my home what don't belong there. But I can see that wood would probably be best for any home with a fambly in it. As an afterthought, there are metal kick panels for wood doors as well. Some of those look quite nice.
*Didn't know i was the front man on the anti-anything but wood front door crowd. Still thanks for having my back. When you're tired of maintaining the stained finish of wood then you switch to paint.Now where do you find the salt water in Wisconsin MD? Is it from the margaritas?joe d
*Use it more in Florida than in Wisconsin. I'd like to make a margarita big enough to float the boat in, maybe Pete has that capability!MD
*you bunch a jabronis (forgot what a great word that is.. someone used it in the shed)..... got it wrong.. only Joe got it right.. your customer should get what they need and want with input from you...go back to some of your ten year old jobs and see if the things you spent so much time and effort on are being maintained.. if not then think about maintenance and who can afford either the time or the money to do it..a few of my customers have the money and the time.. but they don't like the hassle of dealing with contractors to come and maintain the product...if you're saddling them with a product that requires annual maintenance.. and it doesn't get done.. who does it reflect on?...i like paint... and when we paint doors, they all look the same... except maybe the wooden ones open up at different times of the year..and when they hire painters (your customers).. what happens to the price if the painter has to do sash?and what happens to the price if the painter has to do putty, glazing, and sash...give 'em a break.. start designing your projects with long term maintenance in mind... lets leave the high maintenance finishes for the showpieces...and if you find products that don't deliver... stop using them..peachtree usually makes a good door.. but they left a lot of contractors twisting in the wind with their windows... now , they don't get used in costal areas..
*How about a nice set of fiberglass kitchen cabinets? I've seen some metal cabinets to. Maybe it is just me but down here metal doors and fiberglass doors go for about the same as wood in any door that I would think of installing.All of these doors need some maintenance, and they need to be painted the first time anyway. Then there is the matter of retrofitting a door to an existing jamb, wood still get's the nod. Skip
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I agree that you should do what the customer wants without shading the decision with your prejudices. Whether you agree or not, there is always progress and it behooves all of us to learn about different products so that we can do the best job possible. In other industries, new materials have replaced traditional materials and have proved to be superior in the job they do. It is possible that this can also happen in our industry.
joe d no prob, buddy, just some lively disscusion goin' on.
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The contractor we are working with says that we should not use an all wood front door. He says it will warp and recommends fiberglass. I like the way wood looks. The door will be protected by a front porch. Does anyone have any suggestions and/or sources for well constructed wood doors?
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I build solid hardwood frame and panel doors. If the customer wants wood, make sure you are getting a fully coped and sticked door with mortise and tenon joints. You can get a solid honduras mahogany 7/4 36" x 80" six panel door for about $400, but it is held together by dowels and the joints are flat cut butt joints, and the panels are held in by brad nailed panel stop on both sides. From 6 ft away you can't tell that from my $1000 door when both are new, but 2 yrs later you can see light through the cracks on the cheap one. That's the point at which the customer calls to complain. A well made door will take a LOT of abuse from the elements but the cheap ones show it in the first year or two.