Best ways to find and buy a backhoe?
Hudson Valley Carpenter
| Posted in Business on
The thread on skid steers got me thinking about buying a used backhoe next year.
So what are some good ways to find machines for sale? Which are the best web sites for equipment sales?
Also, how is fair market value determined?
How is ownership established? How are liens located?
What are some good ways to determine the condition of the machine?
Edited 10/30/2008 9:52 am by Hudson Valley Carpenter
Replies
if its used, its worthless. somebody else problems.
Look at the hours. 5000 hrs = need of major overhaul
Try it out. Look for loose pins, sloppy, unresponsive operation. Plan on spending more for CAT.
Show up at the auction at the Washington County Fair Grounds, Greenwich NY on 12/27. I'll be there. I am not a dealer nor do I make money on this.
Thanks for the auction info Mike. I'm not likely to be in NY State at that time but I'll make a note about it.
I thought you were a Hudson Valley Carpenter.
I thought you were a Hudson Valley Carpenter.
That's where my heart is but not always the rest of me.
Your missing a chance to freeze your #### off.
Probably makes it a better opportunity to find a deal. Good luck.
This is my house advice .
[frnchy will be along shortly]
First thing you have to know what you want costs . Say youre looking for a multipurpose hoe/ tractor like I bought in the Kubota 48 TLB. You need to know what that that tractor is worth. Then several more you might buy.
I was looking at a sunday paper . I was scanning it . I found a 21 TLB Kubota for 9500 but it was 100 miles away. I found out Monday I screwed up so I called and she said it was gone at noon Sunday the first time it ran in the paper . It valued at 17 grand. Small tractor but what a buy. The paper didnt say this;
1 year old , 78 hrs. 5 attachments with dedicated hoe.
You gotta know when to pull the trigger or someone else will pull quicker.
Good point. Sorry you missed out on that machine.
No doubt that it pays to do research about any important purchase. With all the resources so readily available to us on the Internet, there's every reason why we should be ready to act when something good comes along.
I'm looking at this as an investment. If the numbers don't add up, over several years of ownership, I'll either rent machines or sub the work out.
Tim,
Craigslist in my area put out a warning of a scam involving underpriced tractors and jetski's.
The price was too good to be true, so it lured some unwary buyers.
Exactly how the scam artists completed their transaction I don't know ( send me money and I'll deliver)??
Just saying that the scam is out there.
Ray
That's an extremely good point.. the reason why Cat's are so valuable is parts avialablity.
They are the only manufacturer who will have a part avialable for any piece of Cat equipment..
Now that does not mean they have it sitting on a shelf someplace but that they have the blueprints for it and will make one if you are willing to await and pay the price..
It's not going to be cheap but it's far better than attempting to fabricate things yourself unless you happen to be a machinist. John Deere is also good but not as complete a set of blueprints exist. Sometimes it will be needed to have a local machinest make the part, which isn't really that outragious sometimes (depending on where you are)
What is unique about Deere is the network of enthusists who collect and save Deere machinery.. Thus you're likely to find a reasonable source for a set of seals or 2nd gear etc..
ironplanet.com, mlsinc.com, eBay.com, machinelocator.com, ironsearch.com, ritchiebros.com, fastline.com, that's a few I look at time to time.
Your local auction company should have a website that will email you future auctions in certain categories - municipal, construction, etc.
You really need to look at a machine to see the condition, hours alone won't necessarily tell the whole story. Loose pins, hydraulic leaks, dry pins, poor starting, rough idle, ask about oil change intervals, basic maintenance, etc...
Do you have a method of transportation for the hoe? My contractor friend got a huge ticket last month for not having his pickup and goosneck registered for the proper weight - thank goodness for agricultural exemtions ;)
I wouldn't be scared of a higher hour machine, if you are only occasionally using it, why pay $80K for 500hrs or less each year. If you can keep a guy busy fulltime on the machine on the side then maybe buying new is worth it. We run a LOT of different types of equipment and only buy new when it is a machine that pays for itself and downtime is an expensive situation.
Our two backhoes are a 1978 and 1988 Case 580. No glass, no extendahoe, no turbo, no radio - nothing but solid old faithful machines both purchased used and never pampered by us but never really abused. They get used almost every week from digging to handling pallets and ton bales of hay all winter and keep on going day in and day out.
We've had some breakdowns and have split them in half to work on the trans but I know the parts bill has never been as high as a payment. It would be nice to have a newer machine but a used trackhoe would make more sense anyway.
New equipment is nice to run, no doubt about it - just make sure it makes 'cents' I know a little about this, I've been in the custom hay stacking business for 15 years and I've worn out a couple balewagons chasing bales for $0.25 - $.050 each on $100K+ machines and have learned a lot about working vs. earning in the meantime.
Edited 10/29/2008 9:36 pm by Haystax
Thanks for all the good information. I'm a fan of older 580s too, having installed a lot of in-ground pools with them back in the 70s and 80s. I'd be just as happy with a trackhoe, if I could find a good one at a comparable price, maybe happier.
I don't expect to work a machine very many hours or move it very often. Purpose of owning is mainly convenience, but I expect it to pay for itself over time.
Watch and wait.
Watch all on line auctions, want adds, even little nickel.
Be willing to do some of your own repairs.
Got a JD440 for $1700 by bidding just over scrap price for a machine that had 6000 hours, but was on a hilltop with both final drives frozen after sitting unused for 15 years - able to get it started and onto the trailer, great runner since with about 30 hours labor and less than $200 parts.
Similar deal on Ford 4500 backhoe.
Ther may be some fire sales on better equipment now, but folks likely want more $$ to get themselves out of a financial hole. Bought 3 of my > 10,000# machines when folks were upgrading when business was booming. 2 when nobody was buying anything.
Thanks Junkhound,
That's an approach that is ideally suited to this kind of purchase, being a careful, quiet observer of the whole scene. Being patient, resourceful and inquisitive fit in there well too.
I agree about doing some of my own repairs and maintenance. I'm a pretty fair mechanic, as long as I have a shop manual with good drawings and a decent set of tools.
I don't mind going into a shop and asking respectful questions so I'm likely to be able to solve most mechanical problems in the field, without having to transport the machine.
In my experience, that's often the key to making a repair for the price of parts. That approach has taught me a lot about basic mechanics, ingenuity and self reliance.
But in the end, the kindness of others is often the most important factor. When someone stops what they're doing to help out a stranger who's trying to make repairs, the human connection is re-established, as it was always meant to be.
Some years ago, I bought a '72 Ford backhoe from a client that was retiring from his excavation business. I had no idea of what I was buying, so I gave him his asking price. Wadda dumb butt.
Anyways, to make a long story short, you'll need to become fairly good at changing hydralic hoses. And expect to rebuild the main hydralic control panel.
But my biggest oversight on the machine was not noticing the wear on the main swivel bearing. That one that the whole hoe attachment swings from right to left, etc. It had wore thru the bushing casing and into the casting itself.
Fortunately, I had a buddy that owned a machine shop and sought his advice. Ended up finding another casting from a parted out machine, but it still took a year to get it running.
Don't be like me.
They have machines now that will re-create those holes. It welds on new material in stages, then rems out a new hole the correct diameter. Don't know what exactly they're called. But it would be cool to watch it work...
The female of the species is more deadly than the male. [Rudyard Kipling]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J9ak3wKtPQHere ya go.
Pretty cool stuff.I thought the welding was done in smaller steps....
Women's Beach Volleyball: If you can see the hand signals, you're probably ####
That was pretty cool to see! I can imagine that is not cheap to have done as it looked like a few pieces of specialized equipment, a little more time and a whole lot of knowledge!
I don't suppose that I need to tell you what Ford stands for, not after all the misery you went through with that machine. ;-)
I once borrow a used Ford hoe from a neighbor to do a couple days work. It had the same problems that you mentioned. The hydralic pump or some other internal mechaism was leaking fluid pretty rapidly and the main swivel bearing was sloppy. Otherwise it was a strong machine.
My remedy was to go buy five gallons of hydralic fluid and keep working until the job was completed. When I returned the machine I gave my neighbor some money for parts and the remainder of the five gallons of fluid.
Thank God, I'm wise enough now to recognize and accept my limitations. Actually that's an aquired skill, recognizing and accepting.
By the time I get serious about investing in a particular machine, I'll not only know what problems to look for, I'll hire a mechanic to do the close inspections for me and to advise me.