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I’d like to put insulation between the rough-in construction and new windows.
I’ve noticed a new DAP product, a latex foam insulator. It says that it is for windows and doors and claims that it is better for other jobs than the poly foam such as “Great Stuff.” I’m concerned because of the expansion of the foam (i’d like to be able to open and close the windows!).
Any opinions?
Freestanding with boxed stairs, this small deck is full of ideas for a long-lasting entry that will look great for years to come.
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Replies
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Steve
Dap latex foam - it's junk. I think their marketing strategy is to sell 1 can to as many unsuspecting consumers as possible. I used it. Its resemblance to shaving cream is incredible. After a week of drying, it still was like shaving cream. Search the archives.
Great stuff - or whatever they call it. A good concept, but very difficult to work with. Even the minimally expanding flavor can damage your jambs. And whatever you get it on, - it's not coming off! As a matter of fact, I've got some on my finger from about 2 weeks ago - was in a situation of plugging a large hole the plumber left and really had no other easier alternative readily available. Maybe I'd like it better if I went and bought one of those $30 guns Fred used to talk about.
Just use strips of fiberglass. It's worked fine for 20+ years for me. Or better still - let the insulators do their job.
*He's right, stuff it good (but don't put your back into it) with fibreglass. Use your stanley layout square. Too narrow to stuff, caulk the joint. Don't forget to shim b/4. Best of luck.
*Hilti makes a foam gun and foam , one can produces a volume equal to 100 tubes of caulk. It dries and can be exposed to water in 15 minutes. It differs from Great Stuff kind of the way a 4x4 Diesel 1 ton differs from a Chevy LUV; that is, in just about every way. The Hilti gun is infinitely adjustable from a bead thin as a toothpick, to a flow that fills a 1 inch void almost instantly. The can of foam stays on the gun, the gun can be dropped after use with only a wipe off and then picked up a week later and the foam will flow perfectly. This foam is a premium concotion with 2% expansion, great adhesion and easy surformability upon drying. It doesn't come cheap, the gun, 3 cans of foam, a can of cleaner and case is like $225, but for bulk void filling where demoralized workers would work slow, make a mess and do a spastic job this tool can cheer them up, speed them up and make the result better at doing what its supposed to do. Making the $225 seem like money well spent. Additional cans are $15. The only place I know of to get one is Aquascapes Designs in Batavia, Ill. though I'm sure Hilti can provide a list of distributors.
*I agree with using fiberglass insulation it has worked the best for me. The foam as said above is hell to get off anything. The other thing with it is that if your door/window has to be re and re good luck. That foam sticks like shit to a blanket and its a bitch to get the door/window out.
*Steve,If you read the fine print in your window warranty, you will notice that products such as Great Stuff will void the warranty. Freelance's suggestion is good if you have a hundred windows to do, but I suggest going along with MattG, calvin, and Mercer, just stuff with figerglass-but don't stuff too hard!John
*Here's a trick....Just a bead way back in the gap...That's it, don't put a drop more in....Let it expand and fill the remaining gap with fiberglass...I actually stuff glass right away...absoluletly air tight and will never jam a jam...near the stream,aj
*Oh and back to the thread subject...the last 16 windows installed by us were foamed with the latex stuff...worked superb...clean up is a dream wet or dry.near the stream having endured once long ago cutting a door out from overexpanded sticky stuff it,aj
*Famous Quotes:Year 2000 - Breaktime Discussion:"just go ahead and stuff fiberglass in - it's worked fine for 20 years"1975 - Local Builders supply:"just go ahead and leave them empty - it's worked for 40 years"My point? Both statements have the same amount off supporting evidence!! And interestingly enough, both save the same amount of energy.Window and door openings are unique in that they puncture both the drainage plane and the air barrier (and the vapor barrier for those that care). So lets stuff a porous, absorbent, material in there that is opaque to airflow!! Sounds like a good plan.I like Jack's idea, but since I have sworn to never use glass I have installed 10 or so in this house filled solid with foam.The gun I currently use is made by fischer and costs $40. The cans cost $12. I bought a $20 dollar gun that was orange plastic with a gold anodized barrel that set up the first can of foam after a week. The key is to dispense the foam slowly so it is nearly expanded when applied. I do a bead every hour or so.For big gaps I'll stuff a piece of rigid foam in there bedded on both sides with gun foam.If you read the window warranty for the Marvin windows I use and specify it says:Fill the gaps between the window frame and framing members with fiberglass insulation. Do not pack tightly. See illustration.NOTE: Foam type insulation may be used to form an air infiltration seal as required by some building codes. However, a low expoanding type foam should be used in combination with fiberglass insulation.CAUTION: When using expanding foam insulation it is very important not to bow the head jamb and/or side jambs of the unit.So I guess I'll grab a few shreds of glass and bed them in the last layer of uncured foam.BTW - the foam gun is worth the money, because you can also get maximum expansing foam, subfloor adhesive, drywall adhesive, and tub support grades for the same tool.BBTW - Great stuff is maximum expanding foam and can break concrete block!-Rob
*AJ:That's interesting. Was it the Dap brand you used? The only time I tried the Dap latex stuff was when there was a gap at a beam pocket where the proch header entered the house's exterior wall. The wall was to get a brick veneer, and the area was to be covered by a brick pocket but I wasn't confortable with that large of a "mouse/insect hole". I decided to try the white latex foam. It went on like shaving cream. A week later I checked it and was able to wipe it off with my finger. I wasn't impressed. Maybe I had a bad can or something. I'll have to try it again.On the other hand, it has received mixed reviews here in the past too.
*Oh gawd, we now have a controversy on stuffing fiberglass in window gaps. Quik! Someone finance a study to prove which is the IDEAL material for window gaps! Fiberglass or low-expanding foam! Please let me know as soon as soon as the results are published!I say the rough framer should be good enough to frame that window opening 1/8" oversize, that way we'll only have a 1/16" gap around the perimeter and we would only have to caulk it.(just kidding, for those of you who would take that comment seriously)John
*Yes...Dap...it remains soft...so use it where that's OK with you...it is not a glue for sure...which is good for window and door jam areas...near the non-sticky stuff,AJ
*Rob:Re your statement, "Great stuff is maximum expanding foam and can break concrete block! " As long as you're the expert, you ought to be sure you know what you are talking about i before you go running your mouth. Go to Great Stuff web page and see that Great Stuff is not necessarily "maximum expanding". Interestingly, the web page also shows that they have now have an acrylic latex foam product too.
*Matt, Please find a post where I claimed to be the expert.The only information I got from the web site was that it was "controlled expansion" and that must be somewhere less than their "triple expanding" variety.More to my point - regardless of how much it expands, it is difficult to control the amount dispensed, which leads to excess material to expand in a controlled manner. The gun allows you to dispense a bead that will not even expand larger than the gun tip.I used to use great stuff in cans with all sorts of throw away hozes and nozzles that I had rigged up. I now use the gun and replacable cans, "graduated" to the gun perhaps.-Rob
*I just had my cabin insulated, they used a soft round foam stuff that comes in a roll (about 3/4" diameter) and tucked it into the window cavities. I still went back and finished with some stuffed-in fiberglass. Cant remember what they called it. I have used that latex DAP crap and it was just like Matt says, about as effective as shaving cream.
*I use expanding foam all the time. I've used a few different guns, and the Hilti is the best. Trying to foam windows with those Great Stuff cans is like trying to stuff fiberglass in there with your hammer. Buy a decent foam gun and minimally expanding foam, and you will get a better result, do it quicker, and not end up wearing it for a week. Ever notice when you take out an old window chinked with fiber glass the discoloration (grey) on the fiberglass? That's from air moving through.
*Backer rod perhaps is the foam rope you speak of. Can be had in varying diameters at good masonry/concrete supply.
*Rob:At least we agree that the Great Stuff cans, weather the minimal expanding or triple expanding flavor, are hard to work with and that the urethane foam is not very feasible unless you have a nice gun to dispense it through. I also tried one of those cheapee guns that comes in the "pro pack" - or whatever they call it, and it was almost as bad.