Replies

1. 
   Sphere | Jul 17, 2004 11:42pm | #1

   Ipe is great..long straight lenghts, we some at 22' 1x6 Rad. edge. NO knots.  lasts long with yearly oiling..hard as a rock, an pretty..it's my choice

    

   Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations. 

2. 
   WorkshopJon | Jul 18, 2004 12:14am | #2

   I second Ipe (ironwood) as the best, but slightly pricey in cost of mtrls AND labor.  Kiln dried cedar or redwood would be a second choice (very stable).  As far as PT goes..LOL IMO for decking. (not framing).

   Jon

3. 
   jimblodgett | Jul 18, 2004 02:48am | #3

   Do you completely reject the idea of a composite deck?  Last a heck of a lot longer with very little maintanance.  Far cheaper than any wood over the life of the building, and in many ways better.
4. 
   Piffin | Jul 18, 2004 04:14am | #4

   What is the class and style of house?

   Ipe` is fantastic. It akes more labor to install due to need for predrilling and you need to seal the end cuts immediately, but it is worthwhile. I get it here in the Midcaost are for about $1.11/LFt for 1x4.

   In a composite edeck material, go for Correctdeck, which is made here in Maine. It is far better than trex, with a wood grain embossed on one side and it comes in four colours. About $1.75/LFt ion 5/4"x6"

   more rustic? There is Port Orford Cedar decking in 5/4 x 6 with some tight knots. haven't used it for awhile so won't mention price. but this will wear and lasdt longer than eastern white cedar by far.

   Congratulations for having the taste not to want PT! It is strictly an economy untility grade deck material. I just last week went to look at renovating a house that I happened to rent fifteen years ago. At that time, the deck was new PT 5/4 x 6 and already starting to splinter and check. When I saw it last week, it was a sponge. The freeze/thaw cycle apparantly had allowed water to freeze in the checks and begin to danage it. I had the imporession that the chemical treatment didn't go deep enough into the wood either becauese there was definitely some rot going on, which suprised me. Knowing the history of the property owner, I am sure that no surface treatemts were ever applied to protect it from water.

   I built a CVG FIR deck the same year or the next one, I'm sure. That deck has only been treated three times with Thompson's water seal ( Not my first choiice in deck or wood saviours) but it is in better condition by far than the PT deck of the same age.

    

    

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5. 
   JDRHI | Jul 18, 2004 06:55am | #5

   OK....I`m gonna play devils advocate here....but first....is the cottage in Maine a primary residence, or vacation home?

   I personally don`t hold the same aversion to PT decking as others around here....but, like every other natural wood decking it requires regular maintenance. My own experience has been that far too many folks don`t perform the necessary maintenance routines. In this neck-of-the-woods (NY), I recomend sealing any decking twice a year. Once in the spring and again in the fall. I`d suspect Maine would require similar treatment. Without such practices, just about any wood decking will begin to deteriorate in short order.

   Ipe, although extremely strong and attractive, has not been used around here long enough for an honest apraisal regarding its longevity.

   Stay clear of cedar....beautiful, but far too soft for flooring....especially exterior flooring.

   Mahogony is nice....requires maintenance...but very strong as well.

   I`ve seen PT decks fifteen yrs old that look as though they were built recently, and I`ve seen mahogony decks five years old that look to be ancient.

   Well, there`s my two and a half cents.

   J. D. Reynolds

   Home Improvements

   "DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"

1. 
   woodbutch777 | Jul 18, 2004 03:57pm | #6

   I live on the ocean in Northern ma. and I wont use anything but mahoghany decking with stainless steel screws. Piffin is right about the IPE being labor intensive and it does gray out quick in the salt air even when oiled. My last 2 decks i used pre-oiled Merranti mahoghany 1x4 and they still look brand new a year later with no re coating. Got it at SelectWoods in Porthsmouth N H at .89 per lineal. Not as hard as IPE but it still requires the joints to be pre drilled and I use Swan trim head ss screws to install.

   Oh yeah PT decks suck!! Production cookie cutter sub division junk! Thanks just had to vent

2. 
   Piffin | Jul 18, 2004 09:38pm | #8

   Not all cedar is soft. Have you ever seen how dense and hard Port Orford is? 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   gdavis62 | Jul 19, 2004 03:04am | #11

   Alaskan yellow cedar is pretty hard, also.  It stinks when cut.

2. 
   JDRHI | Jul 19, 2004 06:21am | #15

   We don`t get the Port Orford around here....but my bad for lumping all cedars together.J. D. Reynolds

   Home Improvements

   "DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"

3. 
   Piffin | Jul 18, 2004 09:42pm | #9

   Another thing here, Jaybird.

   While I agree that PT should be treated to keep the water damage out, a good half of the quality problems from PT as a decking material are because it is usually put down wet, straight fom the pond it was cured in.

   Then it shrinks, leaving all the little checks that throw splinters in to the feet - or Butt if the deck is so designed for sitting at locations.

   So what reason can we give for wanting to place PT chemical laced lumber on a deck where the little ones are likely to be crawling around in bare feet and diapers? 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   JDRHI | Jul 19, 2004 06:35am | #16

   As to the shrinking of PT....I always recomend that the decking be delivered to jobsite as much as three weeks in advance, where it is seperated and stacked (I use the PT 2 x 2s destined for rail parts to stack the decking and allow ventillation) My contract includes a disclaimer regarding board shrinkage if they`re not willing to allow materials delivered in advance.....that has just about always swayed `em.

   To the toxidicy.....while I`m playing devils advocate here, and I don`t despise the product as so many others do, its never my first choice.....HOs don`t always go with MY first choice. Thats part of the reason I inquired as to the status of the cottage. A home that will see only partial use a few weeks or weekends a year, wouldn`t concern me as much as a primary residence.J. D. Reynolds

   Home Improvements

   "DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"

1. 
   traini | Jul 19, 2004 01:56pm | #17

   RE: Exterior Decks.

   I do not like to use PT and always mention it once to the client  twice if they have children , and will be using the deck with bare feet. 

   I have found the best overall solution to a longer lasting deck is building methods, I  buld decks with a spacers when the need for double joist occurs, If I need joints in floor boards, I set the joist so that I hve a double joist under the floor joint with a spacer on the  double joist so the floor joint has air.Even PT. will get soft on the ends if water is left to sit and soak into joints. 

   One area I do have a real hard time with using PT is on docks. Here in Ontario we have Five choices, Pine(very costly but some older docks have been around 50 years)Spruce,Pt,Cedar and a mill near me has suggested Hemlock. Any suggestions.

   George

6. 
   andybuildz | Jul 18, 2004 05:37pm | #7

   From all the research I've done my choice is Clear Mahogany 5/4 T&G.

   I'm paying ninty cents a L.F for a 5/4 X 4 T&G

   Its "gorgous" wood and very stable.

   I have four decks/porches to do here and the criterior for me is cost effective and beauty and stability.

   I believe I found the product.......man, is that stuff purdy!!

   BE well

   andyThe secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!

   http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

   
   

   ---

   Edited 7/18/2004 10:38 am ET by Andy Clifford(Andybuildz)

7. 
   Shavey | Jul 19, 2004 03:02am | #10

   ipe is nice but i had a friend that built a large deck with it and after i saw it installed it looked nice untill i looked close at it and it had all these little hair line cracks or fissures in it. Now we know that cracks on a flat surface in the north east will collect water , then freeze over and expand these cracks( water expands 4 times its size when frozen) I would recomend Trex for your application its a safer bet for the money

1. 
   UncleDunc | Jul 19, 2004 03:35am | #12

   >> water expands 4 times its size when frozen

   I don't think so. If that were true, then ice cubes would float with 3/4 of their volume out of the water. But they don't. Only about 1/10 of an ice cube - or an iceberg - floats above the water.

1. 
   Shavey | Jul 22, 2004 12:54am | #24

   Sorry guys i was just passing something on that i read somewhere ......

2. 
   Piffin | Jul 19, 2004 04:03am | #13

   " water expands 4 times its size when frozen"

   Huh?

   Wanna check that?

   The water we make ice cubes with isn't that explosive.

   Maybe 10-15%, not 400%

   But your point is right. Water in cracks will destroy the wood in winter. 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

8. 
   Dinosaur | Jul 19, 2004 04:55am | #14

   Put a local white cedar deck on a $4-million house last summer. It was not the highest quality cedar I ever saw by a long shot, but the HO bought it himself, so shut ma mouf....

   It still went pretty well, even if the scrap pile was impressive. Penny pinching millionaire kept every linear inch of scrap; here I thot I wuz gonna box up a few cases of kindling but no....

   Stainless steel screws are essential. Staple strips of 100# felt on the tops of all joists and beams before attaching the decking; it helps prevent water infiltration at screw penetrations, which won't do the wood any good even if it is cedar....

   Dinosaur

   'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?

1. 
   WorkshopJon | Jul 21, 2004 01:04am | #18

   "Stainless steel screws are essential."

   Dino,

   I disagree that that are "essential".  Yes they are the best...??? But but those dipped and triple coated deck screws I used on my deck ten years ago still look like brand new, are stronger, 1/10 the price, plus less labor to install.

   Jon

1. 
   Dinosaur | Jul 21, 2004 01:21am | #19

   I won't argue too hard. But I use them with cedar mainly because I know I'm not going to have a problem with the fasteners staining the boards. If I take a chance on something else, it's penny wise and pound foolish, the way I look at it. Figure the cost of the screws on that job was probably a couple of hundred bucks; the cost of the wood was several thousand.

   My biggest b!tch with SS screws is the heads strip out too easily, even using Robertsons. Dinosaur

   'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?

1. 
   WorkshopJon | Jul 21, 2004 01:36am | #20

   "My biggest b!tch with SS screws is the heads strip out too easily,"

   Dino,

   Mine too, in addition to the price.  I just took this pic of a randomly unscrewed screw in my deck (western red cedar decking).  The brown color is stain and the original coating (not rust).  After ten years all are in good or better shape.    This is a very wet climate.  I think those go for $7.00 for five pounds out here.

   As for the staining issue, never happened, as the coating over the galvanizing prevents it.

   Jon

   Edited 7/20/2004 6:38 pm ET by WorkshopJon

1. 
   Dinosaur | Jul 21, 2004 05:22am | #21

   Interesting that you used Robertsons. Has the US finally seen the light and put them in general usage, or are they still a special-order item? All I know is that any mass-produced hardware item manufactured in the US that I buy up here still comes off the line with slot heads or Philips. PITA; I've got to carry two extra screwdrivers in my electrician's pouch just because of that....Dinosaur

   'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?

2. 
   jonblakemore | Jul 21, 2004 07:33am | #22

   Dino,

   Why the #100 felt? You state that it's to seal the wood from the screw penetrations, but don't the fasteners puncture the felt as well? I can see I&W shield, but I don't know how felt could help? 

   Jon Blakemore

1. 
   Dinosaur | Jul 21, 2004 08:13am | #23

   I agree that Ice and Water Membrane would be excellent, but 100# roll roofing seals pretty well, actually. Especially if you lay it down on a relatively hot day it's pretty gummy. An air nail or power-driven screw schmearing through that stuff at high speed melts it even further and picks up tar and carries it into the wood, and also tends to seal it's own hole. And the rest of the joist is protected from 'casual water' lying on top of it. Makes a big difference in how long the joists will last.

   When I've got built-up beams in a deck structure, I usually put a galvanized flashing on it bedded in lots of bituminous pitch, so when the nails punch through they gook themselves and seal the hole. Like this:

   View Image

   On this job, the HO specified the 4x4 joists; also he wanted to use some left over 15lb felt he had lying around; don't blame me. I doubled it; best I could do in that situation....Dinosaur

   'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?