Replies

1. 
   jim_"crazy_legs"_blodg | Oct 14, 1999 09:43am | #1

   *
   ' Dog, man, what the heck you mean "...that I have to bid."? - jb

1. 
   Stinky_ | Oct 14, 1999 04:04pm | #2

   *Mad Dog, Try the Contractors Pricing Guide-Residential Square Foot Costs 1999.(ISBN-O87629-520-0)This will give you the jumping off point to compare the figures to known costs. Sometimes though, you have to do your t&m cipherin to each individual step and jot it down. I've used this method hundreds of times and to be safe, add 10% to cover the things you'll forget. Don't forget the big stuff!!! I,m the guy who wrote in asking about SQ. FOOT COSTS a week or so ago. What I didn't include in my Question was the fact I was going to do all the interior finishing, hanging cabinets, tile work, mouldings, and doors.

1. 
   Mad_Dog | Oct 15, 1999 08:43am | #3

   *JB: I like your attitude. What I actually meant was, "I have to bid this for my customer to get a VA loan"Stinky: Hey, I decided later that you weren't really all that far off. I was a little harsh there, glad you replied and quantified why the sq. ft. figure was low. I should add that I don't like sq ft figures much, they don't tell anything about quality of workmanship or materials or even what exactly IS included in the figure. Sometimes it does and does not include things like sewer/septic, land, well, driveway, etc. etc. Hard to know what a square foot dollar looks like, you know? Anyway, I do apologize for my reply, I'm usually not that rough!Still workin' through all the details.MDxxxx

1. 
   jim_"crazy_legs"_blodg | Oct 15, 1999 10:39am | #4

   *Well I guess you know about the R.S. Means estimating books (I think you can get them on CD now too). I have heard many a sucessful remodeling contractor swear by those books through the years. - jb

1. 
   Stinky_ | Oct 15, 1999 03:38pm | #5

   *Mad Dog! I figure that I won't really know the costs till I actually build one. What rattles me is the fact that for 12 some odd years I've been in the business of remodeling, I've seen a lot of guys try to build a spec home. They've built some pretty great homes, but, went broke doin it. Whoever bought these houses got a truely quality built home. Good Luck with the biddin!! Thanks for the post! Stinky

2. 
   Nick_Pitz | Oct 15, 1999 05:21pm | #6

   *Mad Dog - I don't know of any form that might help, but here's a couple suggestions. If it's stuff you already know, then ignore it. One thing we use in our bids to help cover our ass is contingencies, which we put in the budget as a price to cover uncertainties in the work. For instance, a remodel that incorporates an existing header. We put in a contingency price that covers us replacing the header, in case it isn't adequate. If we don't do the work, it doesn't get billed. But this way you're covered. We don't use them a lot, just for major uncertainties. It might scare the customer a little by raising your bid, but that's better than a major change order in the middle of the job.The other thing with VA loans is just to make sure your bid includes all of their little requirements. If you don't already know, they require certain things to be done, like some basic code issues like handrails, etc. A realtor who has done VA loans should know what some of these are.For what its worth,Nick

3. 
   jim_"crazy_legs"_blodg | Oct 15, 1999 06:31pm | #7

   *Nick - seems like I'm always comin' to a corner where water somehow got in and rotted the wall and joist framing, or something totally unexpected like that. Do you have a "contingency list" a mile long, or how the heck could you bid stuff like that? I guess, with computers to help out with "at the ready" costs, it could be done, but that sure seems like a ton of bidding to get something like that set up. How do you do that? - jb

4. 
   Nick_Pitz | Oct 16, 1999 01:57am | #8

   *Jim - You're right, if we put in a contingency for everything that might happen, it would be a list a mile long. Usually we only have a small list, 1-3 items. I use it to fill the gaps betwenn hidden conditions, which we cover separately, and things that I might reasonably guess might be there. Rotted out plates and stuff like that is usually hidden, so that ends up as change orders. The last big job we had, one phase of it was overbuilding three rooms. The floors and ceilings were all finished, so even though we thought we knew what we would find, there was no way to tell what all the various headers and beams were. So we added a contingency for several thousand dollars of steel and misc. re-engineering of the structure, so that if we were lucky and it was all ok, then no problem, but that if we had to re-build the stucture then we would have money in the budget already. I guess what we're trying to avoid is a customer feeling that we should have known what to expect and failed to anticipate. This way they're prepared for the worst case.

5. 
   jim_"crazy_legs"_blodg | Oct 16, 1999 04:13am | #9

   *That's impressive. So when things go your way, and you don't need the contingency dough, you come out with a little extra money for something you missed and are still several thousand under budget. Not to mention that you are right on top of possible worst case situation from the start. That sounds like a very good system you have there. - jb

6. 
   Nick_Pitz | Oct 16, 1999 08:40am | #10

   *Jim - Yeah, it works well, but we're a little too honest. If we don't use the contingency we don't bill for it. But it helps me sleep at night knowing it's there.

7. 
   jim_"crazy_legs"_blodg | Oct 16, 1999 09:50am | #11

   *I don't think there is such a thing as "too honest" brotherman. - jb

8. 
   Mad_Dog | Oct 17, 1999 04:55pm | #12

   *I'm right there with you, guys. This house is over 100 years old and has been cobbled and improperly remodeled ever since. At first glance, I wanted nothing to do with it, but convinced myself I could do a lot of interesting work, and so far I like the clients. But to bid this is taking a LOT of time, okay if I get it done right, and I'm not really bidding against anyone else (advantage?). I figure if I get started this fall, I may have it complete by end of next summer, allowing about a month for downtime, vacation, etc. That makes the bid pretty scary for me. Thanks for the help.MDxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxx

9. 
   swdstmkr_ | Oct 19, 1999 07:14am | #13

   *Could anyone tell me where I could find some of these estimating books that have been mentioned. I checked the local booksellers (B&N, Borders,etc.) with no success.ThanksScott

10. 
    jim_"crazy_legs"_blodg | Oct 19, 1999 07:51am | #14

    *Scott - the Borders in Tacoma has them. They are in the section with all the construction related (not archiecture) books. I would be astonished if amazon.com doesn't have them. I don't get up there very often lately, but if you get stuck, e mail me, and I can check it out here, let you know what exactly is available. Surely someone on the board uses them. - jb

11. 
    Vince_McCauley | Nov 01, 1999 10:07pm | #15

    *ScottYou can look for the books are your local bookstore The 2 I got are:The 1999 National Repair & Remodeling Estimator, Albert S. Paxton, 22nd editionThe 1999 National Construction Estimator, Dave Ogershok, 47th EditionBoth are published by Craftsman Book Company, 1-800-829-8123 or you can go to their web site.. http://www.craftsman-book.comVince

12. 
    Mike_Smith | Nov 05, 1999 06:34pm | #16

    *Mad Dog, I use GC Works from Jim Ervin, I don't use all the features, but I can really crank out the Proposals. Its organized in labor, materials, subs, and equipment, then takes your input and adds labor burden, contingency/overhead then profit and sales tax. AND then it prints the PROPOSAL.I build every job in my head and this program organizes it for me, and I can do "what ifs" or modify at the request of the customer. I have a few SF books, but I almost never use them. The discipline of a program like this is that its hard to lie to YOURSELF, the bottom line is the bottom line and you have to go out and sell it. This gives you the confidence to sell yourself and the job. You know your numbers are right and if its more than the competition, well they either left it out , or they don't know what they're worth, or they've got a better idea than you or their quality is different. The main thing is that you know what YOU have to get to do a good job for your customer and stay in business. Any form or program or system that helps you do this is what you need.

13. 
    jim_"crazy_legs"_blodg | Nov 05, 1999 07:01pm | #17

    *Mike - "GC Works from Jim Ervin". Where did you get that program? What did you pay for it? Thanks - jb

14. 
    Mike_Smith | Nov 05, 1999 10:39pm | #18

    *Jim , don't you have work to do ?Anyhow, GC works comes in about 5 versions, it integrates with Appleworks (formerly Claris Works) and either Quicken or Quick Books Pro, The name of the company is sYnapse software and the pkgs run from $550 to $750.They have a web site at :www.synapsesoftware.comlike I said , I use about 5% of the program, but that 5% has changed my whole business. I used to estimate with spreadsheets and get bogged down in the details, then write a Proposal in Word Perfect. Now I get all the detail I want and I handle about 4 times the level of estimating /Proposals and I have a lot higher closing percentage (not because of the economy ) Check it out, maybe yes, maybe no.

2. 
   Mad_Dog | Nov 05, 1999 10:39pm | #19

   *
   I've been "on my own" for 15 years but
   always worked time+materials, now
   looking at a major remodeling job that I
   have to bid. This one involves raising
   floor/ceiling levels and raising the
   upstairs, including the roof and there's
   a lot of structural consideration.
   Anyone know of a good or standardized
   form that I can work off of for this
   purpose?