for my info, I’m a little confused
Company bid a job at 40 hrs a week as a sub, not sub to contractor but sub to owner to watch over contractor
contractor hits the schedule aggreavive working six 12’s because you bid at 40 , your out of money.
what do you do,
1) eat it
2)walk away
3) can you change order?
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Replies
BB, I'm not quite clear what the situation is. Do I have this right:
Is that about right?
What does your employment contract say? Are you there as an hourly independent contractor?
i work for the owner, get paid by the owner, we bid a lump sum price at 40 hours a week.I have to be on site when work is being done.contractor pushing the job at 6 /12i get paid by the hour and due to all the overtime, no money left.1) do i walk
2) eat it
3) beg for more money
seems to me your boss is responsible for paying you, period.you eat it and you set a precedence, your boss should eat it.I could be wrong, but I think your boss is legally required to pay you.
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter WFR
"But when you're a kibbutzer and have no responsibility to decide the facts and apply the law, you can reach any conclusion you want because it doesn't matter." SHG
yes , agree, but is it ethic to walk off a job?
"but is it ethic to walk off a job?"IMO if you are fulfilling your obligation to your boss, working the hours he is paying you, you are doing your part.I would tell my boss ahead of time when you plan to leave the site. That way he knows when he needs to have someone there.I was never a stickler about time on the job, staying late once in awhile was ok. But if the boss is asking you to work 4 hours a day 5 days a week, then 12 hours on Saturday for nothing, the boss is going far above what he should expect. as I recall federal labor rules you have to be paid OT over 40/hrs a week, and sometimes over 8hrs/day. forget how that worked.
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter WFR
"But when you're a kibbutzer and have no responsibility to decide the facts and apply the law, you can reach any conclusion you want because it doesn't matter." SHG
It's a contract. I'd finish the job and be glad I'm working. Not to sound harsh or anything, but you're not the first to have to work overtime for nothing extra, and you won't be the last. Consider it a lesson learned.
Scratch all the above, I re-read the original post. The first time I read it like the poster based his bid on 40 hours. If that were the case, I'd say suck it up and finish the job. But now I'm reading it again and can't make heads or tales of it. Sounds to me like somebody is getting screwed and, to my experience, that is usually the lowest man on the totem pole. I'd say pay by the hour or walk away.
~ Ted W ~
Cheap Tools! - MyToolbox.netSee my work - TedsCarpentry.com
Edited 4/2/2009 8:31 pm by Ted W.
"Consider it a lesson learned." BB is an hourly employee whose company has run out of money on this contract. Now they are asking him to work for nothing.what lesson is learned?
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter WFR
"But when you're a kibbutzer and have no responsibility to decide the facts and apply the law, you can reach any conclusion you want because it doesn't matter." SHG
So there's nobody else that works for your company that could spell you so there wasn't a need to make up overtime?A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
If there is no money, yes it is ethical. i think a talk with the owner is in order to find out if he will pay more. kind of sounds like the job might be over.
Yer boss... he's running a company with 8000 employees, doing work in 93 states, pouring 11 billion yards per week... and he can't contract his way out of a brownbagg. Or am I missing something? Maybe he can qualify for a Federal bailout.
"yes , agree, but is it ethic to walk off a job?"
ha ha ha ... I can tell you've never worked a day with my Dad!
"Jeff ... pack up the tools!"
was heard early and often anytime a customer gave the slightest hint they'd have trouble writting the check.
The louder he yelled it the faster they'd pay up.
no money, no workie ...
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Is the bid amount for 40 hours per week for however many weeks it takes to do the job? So the total figure is not known til the job is done?John
It sounds like your contract does not have any wording regarding the GC working extra hours thus requiring you to work overtime and obtain extra pay.
Perhaps the GC's contract with the owner has a clause requiring them to pay for your additional time if they work over 40 hours. There must be some sort of wording acknowledging your required presence for testing in their contract.
Just a thought,
John
We have a clause in our contractsd with gc's that we pay for third party inspections and testing, but we only pay for th first test in each catagory. If it fails and the inspector has to come back, the gc pays. Otherwise the gc couild call for inspections before they were ready just to see if it would pass.
To answer your question, i would tell the owner what is happening. Ask if your contract can be increased to bill for actual time spent on the job, or do you need to be there at all times, or should the gc pick up the additional hours. That's assuming you were told it would be a 40 hours week when you signed the contract.
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
In a legal employee/employer world, no.
Would I? probably, under some circumstances
But.....
If you boss bid it at 40 a week, then at the end of 3 1/2 days, then you should get the next 1 1/2 days paid. You get paid for your 40, so does your boss. But I think your boss doesn't see it that way, only to his convenience
And... If I remember correctly, your boss keeps pulling stuff like this on you?
its a little confusing, my company been hired as a special inspector. I have to be on site , every hour the contractor works. I walk around with blueprint vertifling steel placement, cmu placement. welding inspection etc. so I am busy 10 hours a day. I am basically a private building inspector.contractor pushing the schedule, we are eight weeks ahead of schedule. still have five months of work to do.My super tells me , there is no more money in the contract, stop going out there. I still get paid for every hour that I work.
Sounds like they need to write a better contract to cover this type of stuff. Hard to believe it is a first. It is confusing. Is your contract for X dollars a week, for how many weeks it takes to do the job? And your company assumed 40 hrs.Or is it a lump sum bid where the estimator guessed (or was told) how many weeks the job would take? And they multiplied that time by the 40 hr. rate.Just curious, John
Or is it a lump sum bid where the estimator guessed (or was told) how many weeks the job would take? And they multiplied that time by the 40 hr. rateyes
bb
I like to tell GC's that we aren't partners. Partners share the losses AND the gains. As soon as they write me a check (above our contracted price) for our part of the gain I will fall over. Until then why should I share in his loss?
Now that is a little dramatic. And I try to phrase it a little better but...
He bid poorly. TS
Brownbagg; it sounds like the your firm is involved in work that is normally performed by Engineering consulting firms. Having been stuck in similar situations in that industry, it would be a serious breach of contract for the firm to not provide the service contracted for. And, it would also be grounds for disciplinary action by the Engineering Licensing board, up to and including revocation of the license of an engineer who made the decision, and any others at the firm that had knowledge of it.
work that is normally performed by Engineering consulting firms. that who I work for
In that case it is a moot point. (What state are you in?) In most states, it is covered under the professional standards section of the legal code governing the practice of professional engineering. You are required to fulfill the contract you signed. I think all the states have adopted the model code, so there isn't much difference between them. I know that I would be required to complete the work I contracted to perform, and would be censured by the Board, and could loose my license for walking off the job. This is not to mention, the potential for lawsuits, and the inability to get errors and omissions insurance if the client files a claim. Do a search on your state's website for the licensing board for professional engineers, and check out the statutes. If the guy who is telling you to walk off the job isn't the licensed principle at the firm, you might let the engineer who is going to seal the final reports, know what is going on.
so as of today, boss says to walk away from the job
You have no choice.
It almost sounds like your co may be using this as a ploy to charge more, now that they have figured out there mistake in bidding. Not knowing exactly what is going on and the customer, I would almost bet, from your description, you will be back and your co. will be charging the customer more.
My 2 cents, and from here that is what it is worth>G<
"so as of today, boss says to walk away from the job"get it in writing - "there's enough for everyone"
Well this is a lesson in documentation. Hope you have kept records of your time and meals etc. Don't you have a state/provincial labor board?
If you belong to a professional organization and work for and engineer they also have ethical policies of payment, in there code of ethics?
Are you and employe or a independent consultant?
I may be wrong, but the way I read it is BB is watching a contractor work. The contractor was supposed to work 40hrs per week and so was BB. Now the contractor wants to finish the job earlier that the original date and so is working 6 days per week 12 hrs per day and if BB is supposed to be there when the contractor is he must now also put in 72 hrs per week which is costing the company time and half for the extra 32 hrs. The company only accounted for straight time in the original bid and can't afford the overtime and I guess there is no bonus paid for completing the job earlier. The contractor may have another job lined up that he doesn't want to lose.
I guess the question is - can you force the contractor to work only 40hrs per week even if he wants to do the overtime?
I think you clarified that well. I was having difficulty understanding the exact situation.
I would think that the contractor has broken the contract by working and expecting BB (and co) to inspect their work more than a total of 40 hr per wk.
Of course that depends entirely on the wording in the contract. Did it contain exact language stipulating a 40 hr work wk?
The contractor is ahead of schedule by 8 weeks. Supposedly he will be even more ahead when the job is done in 5 more months.So BB's company has 320 hours in the bank ahead on their estimate based on the number of weeks. It's unclear whether they have burned through this money through overtime pay or if he has worked more than 320 hours above the time they figured to get to this point. If that makes sense.I don't understand how you give a fixed bid on something when the determining factor is someone elses' speed. Even if the GC was working 40 hour weeks, if he took say 10 weeks longer to complete the job than BB's company estimator figured, they would be out that money since they had to be on the job daily.John
I think whoever wrote the contract at bb's company screwed up by not having a clause allowing for a forced change like this."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
How's the job market in your area?
I would be inclined to work the 72 hours at straight time and endure for the rest of the job. But, I'm also assuming that a paying job is a nice luxury in today's market.
Jon Blakemore
RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA