Replies

1. 
   xMikeSmith | Dec 22, 2003 07:29am | #1

   doc... i don't understand.... is this your job , or are you moonlighting ?

   Mike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

2. 
   xhammerandnailsx | Dec 22, 2003 07:37am | #2

   It would seem to me that you need to determine two things:

   What is your material cost? (No wood, but are you providing anything else)

   What's your time worth? If you can have the project done in two weeks, figure out what you'd like to be paid for two weeks.

3. 
   DocDM | Dec 22, 2003 09:19am | #3

   Doc, Used to be that anytime family (or family's friend) asked for help, they would only offer to pay by the six-pack. No more drinkin' for me tho', so now they gotta pay $$$!

   You were a framer, how long will this take you to complete? What do you need to make it worth your time? Me, I work slower than most, with an occasional helper, so what some other guys can finish in a day might take me a day and a half. Maybe two. SO, I'm worth less per hour, but can still do the same job. I use estimating programs for help on bigger jobs, but do most bids on the old "That'll take about 3 days" or "That'll be about $$ per window".

   Good luck!

   Doc (TX)

   P.S. What do you do full time?

   A shortcut is the longest distance between two points.

1. 
   Doc | Dec 22, 2003 02:18pm | #4

   No, I don't frame anymore.  So, I guess this is kind of moonlighting, but I'm not really cheating on an employer.  Just utilizing my abilities for a little extra money.  I work in a bioanalytical laboratory where I run testing on samples attained from clinical trials we do for pharmaceutical companies.  I still get to work with my hands, just a much higher priced set of tools. 

   I will be doing job as labor only, and nails.  He's providing all of the materials.  I also work a little slower than the average bear.  I like to take my time and do things correctly.  Also, I always work alone which tends to make things a little more difficult.  I'm guessing that I could do all of the work in weekend if everything goes smoothly.  There are a few obstacles.  I have to box in some ducts that run down the center of the ceiling, and of course every stud will have to be cut and nailed in place instead of fabricating the whole wall in sections.  So, as I said, I think one good weekend should do the trick.  I don't want to do it hourly, but figure what I think it should roughly take me, and figure a set amount.  Anything past that amount of time will be my own loss due my meticulous tendencies.  Like I said, this is just extra money to pay a few bills or use for tool buying.  Usually any money I can make on the side I designate for buying more tools and toys for my eventual shop.  Most of the side jobs I've done have been for relatives, they are small jobs, they work with me, and then they throw me 50 or 100 bucks for helping them and teaching them how to do something.  So, again I'm not really sure how to go about figuring this.  Any help, as always, is appreciated.  Thanks again.

1. 
   JeffBuck | Dec 23, 2003 03:35am | #5

   Just make sure you charge enough to cover the insurance you just ran out and bought....

   and those taxes you'll claim, file and pay!

   This is funny ...

   let's retitle the thread .... Hey, how do I underbid a legit carpenter in my area?

   I'm gonna go find some "lab testing" website ... then ask how much I should charge to run some clinical tests for pharmaceuticals companies!......

   That'll be funny too!

   But back to yer question .... I say $1000/day. If that works ... give up the day job and become a millionaire GC!!

   Jeff

   Buck Construction   Pittsburgh,PA

        Artistry in Carpentry                

1. 
   Doc | Dec 23, 2003 04:11am | #7

   I always love the sarcastic comments I get when I post a question.  I don't believe I said anywhere in my prior statements that I don't have insurance, or that I wasn't claiming the income.  Actually, both of your assumptions are incorrect.  And the job was never going out to bid, he was going to do the work himself but decided that he would like some assistance to speed his project along.  So I don't believe I'm interefering with any "legitimate" contractors in the area, and I don't believe that all of my years building homes, working in cabinet shops, and building custom museum casework make me underqualified.  I'll have to remember the mechanic whose life I'm destroying when I change my own oil, or the chef whose paycheck I'm slashing when I make dinner at home.

   So because I have pursued an alternate career, does that make me no longer allowed to use skills from prior work to supliment my income?  I fully admit that I know very little about the bidding process, and that's why I posted the question.  I was asking for a little advice, which is what I thought this Forum was about.  But for the second time in a week I have recieved snide comments from people with some grudge towards people like me, who might not know as much as some of you, but would like to learn.  Thank goodness that all of the teachers I had in the trades and college weren't like you, or I would have never learned a thing.  And thank you to all of you that do take the time to pass on your knowledge and expertise. 

1. 
   JeffBuck | Dec 26, 2003 01:28am | #15

   BS.

   Merry X-Mas ....

   now that U've added that extensive resume ... plus ran out and bought insurance ...

   I'll say $1001 a day.

   JeffBuck Construction   Pittsburgh,PA

        Artistry in Carpentry                

2. 
   tsh | Dec 23, 2003 04:00am | #6

   Hey Doc,

   value yourself. Is your meticulousness worth anything? Mine is. No call backs. I usually underestimate, and am learning to stick with the total i come up with after I add up the totals after I've done a job breakdown. Try multiplying the weekeng by 1.5 or 2.

1. 
   Doc | Dec 23, 2003 04:25am | #8

   Thanks for the response.  I appreciate the advice.  I usually let people get their own materials, but how do you figure in the materials when have to get them?  Do you do a percent mark up on materials as well as the time it takes to get them? 

1. 
   Schelling | Dec 23, 2003 06:49am | #9

   The safest method of estimating for a newcomer is the stick method. You count the sticks and other materials as exactly as you can, factoring in for waste. Get a quote from a lumber yard. They can usually do this over the phone.

   Next you build the project in your head, each and every procedure, including material pick up and clean up, giving a time allotment for each task. Total up the hours and multiply by the rate you wish to get paid.

   Next you have to figure out your overhead. You may not have too much but insurance and taxes count. This overhead must be covered by a markup either on materials, labor or both.

   Finally you should include something for profit. Yes, you are doing this for a friend. But there is still risk involved. Accidents happen. Friendships go sour. Bills are sometimes unpaid. If you want to continue to do this and feel good about it, you need to make some profit to compensate you for the bumps.

   There are also numerous estimating books for both remodeling and new construction. It is edifying to peruse these books though you should never overlook your own judgements.

2. 
   OneofmanyBobs | Dec 23, 2003 02:34pm | #11

   Make sure you include some allowance for overhead.  Tools, bits, blades, maintenance.  You can assume some fixed amount, like a couple dollars an hour, or try and guess for this particular job.  Trash disposal.  Any costs there?  Permits?  Once you decide on what you want to earn, mark up to allow for tax and insurance, an allowance for callbacks, overhead, special materials or supplies (ramset).  I charge a margin on materials to cover the accounting overhead and some profit, plus time.  Can't give you a percentage number since your mileage will vary, but often new bidders will charge less than their real cost plus profit and make nothing or lose money.  Just think it through carefully and try to account for everything.  Put it in writing.  Even though it's a friend, put it in writing.

3. 
   tsh | Dec 23, 2003 06:09pm | #13

   Doc,

   I usually charge 15% markup on materials on large projects and up to 50% markup on smaller projects- especially in situations where i know there will be alot of different sources and supplies... or on the small projects i will add 15% and charge for the time to get them.

4. 
   Doc | Dec 23, 2003 07:07pm | #14

   Thanks everyone for the responses.  I appreciate the help.  I can already see that I was figuring a little low.  I'll have to re-think it a bit, and come up with a better number.  Thanks again for your time helping out a bidding rookie.  Hope you all have a safe and happy holidays.  Hope Santa brings puts some new tools in your stockings.

4. 
   CarpenterPJE | Dec 23, 2003 02:10pm | #10

   Doc,

   When bidding basement framing, I figure out my lumber list first, take the total number of wall studs I estimated & multiply by $10.00 to $12.00 each, for my labor.

   This method brings me in pretty close to what it is going to take labor wise.

   Hope this helps.

   PJE

5. 
   ravenwind | Dec 23, 2003 03:23pm | #12

   hi doc ,   I just did a job quite a bit like yours a few weeks ago, figured it would take a weekend, it took12 hrs all together asked for 700.00 inculding materials/studs nails /   materials cost about 200.00 made 500.00 and did good for myself and customer .  way up here in maine where cost per hr is 18.00 to 25.00 per hr depending on job and customer and time of year( summer - 20. to 30. per hr ) winter still work 15. per hr for older customers if not much work . its crazy up here , ask for what you want and think, this is what i want and give them a good deal formula.   Dogboy