Just started this deck and I will post pictures as we go.
The footings were 18″x18″x12″ deep
“Rather be a hammer than a nail”
Bob
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This is a new house so I had to inform the builder where to install the ledgers for this multi-level deck.
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Here are the boys in the rain today. Some days are just better than others but after the rain subsided the air was nice and clean and we were all back to tee shirts.
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Here is the Trex dump. It would have been nice if they had banded the two stacks together. A couple of these is the view from the house.
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Edited 9/17/2003 12:51:23 AM ET by Pro-Dek
The steel beam gets my curiosity up. What kind of loading factor are you desighning for?
Quality repairs for your home.
Aaron the HandymanVancouver, Canada
Aaron, long time no see- what steel beam are you talkin about? All our beams are 4x10 pressure treated hem/fir. I build all my decks so you can park a truck on them.
The joists are 2x10 12" on center because I think there is too much give at 16" on center."Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
I guess I'm geting old. I could have sworn that I saw a steel carrying beam in one of the pictures.
I'm looking forward to posting the pictures of the deck we have been building this summer for a client. Not ready yet, but the main carp is a guy who posts here a lot, and what a stunning work he has accomplished!
Speak to you soon.Quality repairs for your home.
Aaron the HandymanVancouver, Canada
Very nice, Prodek...I'm building a trex deck now as well (much smaller)...Second story w/ a flight of stairs..We're custom designing a cable and trex rail system as well since the prefab cable railings are $47/l.f.
Question: Noticed you're in the Northern parts and are using footings on grade. We're a bit north of you and all here are accustomed to using sonotubes to below frost level (approx. 4' here). How do your footings do with frost heaving? Ever any problems? Why no gravel under the pads? Just curious..I think if we could use footings here, we'd save time and money in many cases.
Hi Joe, Suntoad, Frost? what's frost? We don't have frost and the ground is like concrete. Our frost line is about eight inches because of our mild rainy climate. I normally dig a footing 2'x2'x8", place a bag of dry premix in the hole then put in a pier block with an adjustable saddle, the add another bag of premix around that.
This makes for a nice wide footing and allows us to tweak the the post height if high or low which seldom happens because we shoot all our cut off dimensions with a lazer.
We do have some locations where we have to go deeper with sono tubes.
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Edited 9/17/2003 11:34:41 AM ET by Pro-Dek
Edited 9/20/2003 2:59:24 PM ET by Pro-Dek
Bob,
what did you use to tie the posts to the piers?
bobl Volo Non Voleo
The post ties are Simpson CBQ44 column bases for $8.59 each
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Edited 9/25/2003 1:08:14 AM ET by Pro-Dek
thanksbobl Volo Non Voleo
Beautiful job Pro
Those pressure treated beams I thought were redwood.....had me wondering till I read your post..guess it's the lighting...
Good show bro.
Be well
andy The way we regard death is critical to the way we experiance life.
When your fear of death changes, the way you live your life changes.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Eight inches???!!! You call that a footing? My daughters playhouse footings go down deeper than that!!
I will think of you from now on with every one of the forty two inches we go down `round here.
In all seriousness though....beautiful job....looking forward to pics of project completion. Thats some vista as well...gotta be tough concentrating on work staring out at that all day.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
The difference is you don't need a Jackhammer to dig your footings J.D..........
But thanks for thinking of us when you diggggggggg!
:-)"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Here is the view today. First you see Lake Sammamish, over the hill there is Lake Washington, Then Seattle, then Puget sound,then the Olympic Penninsula, Then the Pacific ocean. Just another Rainy day in Seattle......................"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Pro:
If you don't mind, I'd like to see some pics of the completed deck, especially some showing railing and step details... if it's not too much trouble. Your work is always superb, and I'd like to see how you all do some of these things to get some ideas.Matt
Matt, Patience my friend, We haven't finished decking this puppy yet. I'll post more this week.
Thanks for following along"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Great job Prodek. How do you fasten the knee braces to the columns? Lag Screws?"Now here at the Rock we have two rules. Memorize them until you can say them in your sleep. Rule number one: obey all rules. Rule number two: no writing on the walls." Barney Fife
Marv
First we nail them then we put a 3/8" x 6" lag at each end."Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Here is a shot of the rail and fascia
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Absolutely georgeous.J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
Aaron don’t feel bad, I thought it was a steel beam too. Then I just looked a bit closer and saw it was just a BIG old chuck of wood.
Bob,
You almost make me want to do decks every time I see one of your jobs ;-)
I do have a question though, what’s the store behind the pad footings? Does an 18 x 18 x 12 spread enough to make you forgo going deeper or is the frost line non-existent there?View Image
Our deck is bigger than the one next door..........hehehee"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Your work is always a joy to look at, Pro-Dek.
Wonderful view there...where's it at?
Thanks Darrel, this deck is in Issaquah, just east of Seattle. The view is west facing Seattle. I'm glad we weren't building this about a month ago in the 90 degree heat."Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Very-nice pic's !! I used to live in your area (Tacoma/Gig Harbor)...Your latest pistures remind me why we moved to the Columbia Gorge area ! Have you ever tried useing some 18 gauge x 1 1/4 " strapping (ran diagonally, corner to corner) on the top edge, eliminateing the need for knee braceing ? Works well..addressing the issue of racking. It really works well in several scenarios. When I do plan reviews..in several instances I will note on the plans this option (especially when contractor/owners want very-few, if any obsticles blocking their view).
Again, nice job !
Tigger- knee bracing is only required for decks above 4' with a 4x4 to eliminate bending moment and give a coaxial load to the post and less bounce to the beam. We will install 2x4 diagonal bracing underneath the deck to eliminate side to side sway or racking. Those strap ties Simpson (MSTI72) you are referring to are expensive and would create lumps underneath the decking IMO.
I probably could have eliminated them altogether had I used 6x6 posts, but then the post cost more and so to the footing post bases.
So, don't you have to be a windsurfer to live on the Gorge?
You probably go to ALOT of concerts out there.
Have you ever fished Dusty lake?
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
is it just me or does the deck fill the whole garden more or less.
i'm not used to seeing houses on such small plots in the US.
in the uk yes they put 5 bedroom houses on plots with enough space around them the park a car in the front and have a 30' back garden.
aleks
Most people around here don't want a garden. They just want everything low maintenance. Most of her gardening will be done in pots on the deck.This is a 60'x135' lot with a 5700 sq.ft. home.
Most of the people around here have huge houses on small lots and they hire gardeners to mow and trim for about $200. per month.
I think you'll find the majority of homeowners leaning toward larger homes on smaller lots.
I personally like living on my landscaped acre. It is ALOT of work but I have room around me and when I'm done mowing, edging, trimming, raking, and planting I can sit back on my deck and enjoy looking out at it all without listening to my neighbors argue.
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
and being able to make as much noise as you want without offending the neighbours must also have its plus side!!!!
aleks
You want quiet ?
Starting shortly before quakefest, I have been spending my sundays trying to find the spot above the town of Index, that Gunner's dad took a particular pic from. I think I'm getting closer, but I've got to get a 4x4 going, if I want to get any further. I need to print the picture out, as well, so I have something to show people, and ask them if they know how to find that particular view.
Today, I was Waaaaaaaaaay up there.
Drove to Index.
Instead of crossing the bridge, I went straight ahead. The paved road goes on for many many miles. Didn't bother to look at the odometer. Wish I had.
I ended up on forest road 65. Didn't quite go all the way to the end of it. I would have if I'd been in a 4x4, and better prepared.
Got out at one point, and took a bunch of pictures that I want to try to turn into a panorama.
Incredibly beautiful up there. But standing up there on that hillside, I was just as struck with the silence. I could hear myself breathe.
If you drive out that way you will discover a spider's web of forest service roads. Beautiful country. Open campgrounds. Lot's and lot's of fishing. Etc. There are enough roads up there to keep me busy for the next year or so. Man, I GOTTA get a 4x4 going.
A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
Luka, your going through all that trouble? Your the man, I do the same thing though once I get it in my head it's an obsesion. Good luck I'm gonna have to get pops digging for more clues now.Who Dares Wins.
Luka,
I have a ski house up near there - on the Money Creek Campground turnout near Skykomish. I agree with you about the silence and the crispness of the air out there, though I'm spending more time inside breathing dust as I trim out the house.
Each time I drive up that way now, I kick myself for not having bought up that way instead.
I coulda been right on a paved road, and still had the beauty !!!
A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
This shows the Trex spacer we use . We sister a block on the joist to give us more material to screw the decking to."Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
That sister-block's a good idea.
Pro, I like your method of providing more surface to secure the two boards at the butt joints. It allows you to provide the right butt gap and secure the boards without putting the screws right at the edge of each board. Rounding over the edge of each board is a nice touch. I'm going to use the same technique but worry about the block coming loose from traffic and expansion cycles. I'm planning on using 2 carriage bolts per block or four 3 in. screws, any advice?
Roll em up! The rains comin- good days work!"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Pro
Thats a great looking deck! With that view you should be building it just for the plesure of looking at it. :)
I sure hope that those boys of yours dont figure out that you spend more time taking pictures than building, cause your going to be in trouble if'n they do. :)
As always looks great.
Doug
Allow me to critique your deck.
I noticed your forms were below grade. They should be at least six inches above grade in most parts. Use dirt for the form and a small section of sonotube to rise the form to the minimum or use your 2x6 forms and don't bury them.
CBSQ44s are nice but it seems your guys buried them in the concrete. They are designed as a stand up base to keep the post at least one inch above the concrete. The pad should be sloped slightly to keep water from pooling at the base.
Ledgers are OK if necessary but a hanger directly on the rim joist will be less problematic in the future. Debris and ice will cause a ledger to heave and rot when attached to the wall. If you were really in cahoots with the framers, then a 'let in' ledger into the wall behind the siding would have been better.
The sister (scab) on the splice was OK but the splice should have slight bearing on the same joist to prevent a low/high spot in case the scab shrinks.
The knees are nice decoration but they hardly do jack. Remember the earthquake in 2001? To really prevent racking, the brace should be as long as possible. A diagonal from the pier to the top of the post would be better.
Other than that, it looks like a mighty fine deck.
Mike Callahan, Lake TahoeStart out slow. Then ease up.
Gee thanks for the critique Mike, I was kind of hoping you could show us all the correct way you build decks by posting a picture.
Oh, as I mentioned before, knee braces are not designed to keep the deck from racking and if you run them from the footing to the top of the post doesn't that look a little but ugly?
Racking is eliminated by running diagonal bracing from the ledger to the outermost beam run fastening to each joist with two nails.
Thanks for the tips though, I'll see if the building dept here will revise their footing requirements.
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Edited 9/23/2003 1:27:52 PM ET by Pro-Dek
I forgot to mention that you should miter your deck facia in the future but only if you want that "pro" look. Butt joints are OK for inside corners but butt joints on outside corners shout AMATUER!
Also the column base ears should have been oriented perpendicular to the girder. That way, slight alignments can be made so the posts are plumb with the girder without having to shave the post. I'm suprised you don't know that already.
I really doubt that your code allows your pier pad at grade. If you REALLY knew the code and had engineering and a permit then the inspector could have red tagged you for those sub standard piers. You should bone up and read the uniform code and you will find among other things that your post MUST be at least 6" above grade. I doubt that Seattle is different from everywhere else.
I usually provide some kind of skirting around the decks I build so the framing underneath is concealed.
Sorry you don't think my criticism is constructive. I thought the concealed ledger was a good idea. I also thought that sloping the concrete from the post instead of just screeding it flat was also a good idea. Setting the CBSQ44s too deep was also a noteworthy criticism. If you read the Simpson catalog you can learn about the proper installation.
I have met lots of guys like you. They can never learn because they already know it all. Most of those guys never become more than laborers, or deck framers.
I am living in a trailor at my house under construction and using an ancient MAC. My camera only works with the newer PC that my wife has and she is a hundred miles away while I build our house. I have lots of photos but this website rejects them when I try to upload them from my MAC.Start out slow. Then ease up.
"TMI"That means Too Much Information. You are coming across like a "Know it All".
My piers are not at grade but 4" above grade.Those are 2x10's in the hole
Did I put the post base 1" above grade? No as far as I'm concerned that is less stable and not required as long as the bracket and footing are above grade.If YOU will read the Simpson catalog on page 36 you will find it specifies that you install ALL models with the Bottom of face plate flush with concrete.It also says that for higher downloads, solidly pack grout under 1" standoff plate before installing the CBSQ into concrete.
Skirting? why don't you wait till the deck is done before you criticize our work? By the way it is called fascia not skirting.
"I have met lots of guys like you. They can never learn because they already know it all. Most of those guys never become more than laborers, or deck framers."
"ditto"
I am living in my house doing business out of my house using a PC because it works for me, you may keep your Mac and your opinions till you do a little research.
Thanks, for following along.
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
I referred you to the Simpson catalog so I wouldn't have to go into all the details. The CBSQ is nice because the standoff plate keeps the post above the pier to prevent rot. It's a good idea if done according to specs. Burying the plate by placing it flush only defeats the purpose and is cutting corners in my opinion.
Skirting is not facia. Facia is facia. Maybe I was only observing a subfacia when I mentioned the butt joints. I guess I will have to wait to see the final pics to see how you conceal that butt joint.
Skirting would be, in the case of your deck a lattice (cheap) or as I prefer, 1x6 vertical boards space 1" apart attached to a frame below the facia to conceal all the framing and provide a "finished" look. It is just the the way I do things. I like to see skirting on decks.
I'll bet you had a permanent "kick me" sign laminated, and stapled to your back, didn't you ?
; )
A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
Sorry Luka, but you have been on my ignore list for quite a while now. I veiwed your post because it was to me, but don't bother replying to me anymore. I see your post is just more inane drivel and that is what probably that put you on my list in the first place.Start out slow. Then ease up.
ROFLMFatAO !!
I'm on your ignore list ?
Promise ???!?
Wait, wait, mr "my #### stinketh not"... Could you do me the favor of teaching me how to be a total arse while simultaneously convincing myself that I am doing a favor to all of humanity if I so much as breath in their general direction ?
Oooooh, I'm just so waiting to be able to do that.
; )
A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
Well if Luka is on your ignore list, I probably am too lol,
but damn do you come across as an arrogant SOB.
The Count-Down begins, 83 days left
Now there's an idea that is as good as ProDeck's methods. Using the ignore function for arrogant SOB's like you.
Bye.
Vast projects should not be founded on half vast ideas.
I would like to be on your "ignore" list too. Please sign me up!"Now here at the Rock we have two rules. Memorize them until you can say them in your sleep. Rule number one: obey all rules. Rule number two: no writing on the walls." Barney Fife
Marv
"I see your post is just more inane drivel ...
Well, let's see. You've wandered in here and insulted 2 established and respected people that have been on this forum for a long time. Without contributing anything of substance.
Back off and listen for a bit and you might learn something. "Never speak more clearly than you think." [Jeremy Bernstein]
Jeepers, I must need my hearing checked cause I never hear that shout of 'AMATEUR' when looking at Pro-Dek's work. All I hear as my gut saying 'WOW. That looks really nice and those people are getting a dream deck. Wish I lived in Seattle and had loads of disposable income so I could hire him.'
As always, beautiful work.
Pro-Dek an amateur? Oh dear. Check through the archives captain dogwood. His work is top notch and he is also an invaluable resource on this site. He is the furthest thing from a "know it all" type even if he does know it all. Nice condescending posts though sir dog.
Pro, as usual a nice piece of work.
Doggy.....throw me on that ignore list as well.
SJ
Know a little about alot and alot about little.
Edited 9/24/2003 4:44:50 PM ET by Steve Joyce
Thanks Steve, I explained to Mr. Dog in an e-mail that friendly banter is kind of fun and we like to share constructive criticism and people even learn from it.
I also informed him that you are never to old to learn new tricks, I'm still learning at 57. I'm not new, I've been around the block a couple of times but always willing to learn.
Now let's ALL enjoy learning from each other an try to have fun doing it.
Enjoy! "Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
All decked Out! "Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Here is my son Marty blowin off the chop saw. The boys finished decking today and will install Fascia tomorrow."Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Thats one hell of a view off the back of the deck.
I always wonder just how much time people spend just looking out at their view?
Beautiful as the view can be we all seem to get caught up in our mundane cycle of life and don't really take the time to smell the roses.
You're right it is a great view, and I hope the current homeowner and the owners after them get to enjoy it from this deck.
I'll be long gone when this deck needs to be replaced and that gives me a sence of accomplishment. I know that I built something that will enhance the lifestyle of someone else and I did it with enjoyment and pride.
Thanks for following along. "Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Pro,
`The deck is looking terrific. From what I can see in your pictures, it looks like you have the decking boards fitted nicely around the posts. Can you give me advice on how you get the boards to fit nicely when you run them on a 45 deg angle to the joists? I usually end up wasting boards (and a lot of time) to get a good fit. I've thought about cutting scraps of luan plywood or cardboard to fit then transfering the pattern to the decking boards. Do you round off the top edges of these cuts like you do for the butt joints? Thanks for your help!!
Hi Jim- When you lay your row diagonally closest to the post and get it all fastened down, Lay your next piece on top of that, mark where the corner of the post will meet the next piece.
Now measure from the corner of the post to the fastened board, subtract that measurement + 1/4" and put a mark . Now take your speed square and draw a 45 degree to the intersecting mark, cut out with a jig saw and install.
We don't route around the posts just butt joints."Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Pro,
The deck looks great. I was curious, have you guys had any staining problems with the Trex. I'm in NYC and don't like to use Trex anymore as I have gone back to past decks and found black spotting over the entire surface. I remember Trex did acknowlege the problem but at the time did not know what was causing it. I admit I haven't kept up on it so if someone is aware of an explanation and solution please let me know. Thanks and again, great job.
Richie
Richie - I would be interested in finding that out as well. While my screen porch is complete I still have to put a deck on next year. I wanted Ipe she wants a Trex or Trex-like substance.
Pro - Am I catching this argument from Dogwood correctly? The crux of which seems to center around whether a PT post on your CBQ tie will be rotten in 50 yrs vs. perhaps using the CBSQ where your post may or may not last an additional 50yrs? I guess you will have to give Dogwood the address of the job so in 2053 he can check the footing.
It also looks like the 7ga steel of the CBQ (according to code) is more than capable of handling the snow load proposed earlier.
SJKnow a little about alot and alot about little.
Steve
I guess you will have to give Dogwood the address of the job so in 2053 he can check the footing.
Check his personal file, he'll be an old dog in 2053, by then I'd guess he'd have been put down.
Doug
I have yet to see the staining problems you mention but the Trex Rep is coming out to see our deck and I will ask him what he knows about it.
Here is a shot looking through the railing.
I tried to design a rail that would allow the customer optimum unobstructed visibility by eliminating the 3 1/2" rail laid sideways under the rail cap."Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Are those pipes or dowels in the rails ?
This wouldn't happen to be anywhere near coal creek parkway, would it ?
A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
No Luka this is about 6 blocks from my house in Samammish, looking West toward Coal Creek.
The balusters are powder coated aluminum pipe. They all had to be cut because the manufacturer only provides 3 sizes, 36" 32" 26" and we needed 28".
We tried cutting them with a metal grinding blade and they just melted and frayed so we put the carbide tipped wood blade back on and got nice clean cuts.
here is the link for the balusters
http://www.deckconstruction.com/"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Thanks for the pics Bob. I really like the way those metal balusters give a less impedes (sp?) view. Powder coated aluminum? I've seen pics of them before but have never seen them used around here. Can you order them somewhere?Matt
Go to - http://www.deckconstruction.com/ and you can order them direct or through your local lumber yard. Just ask them to order them for you."Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Thanks Bob.
Matt
Richie, I'm sorry for taking so long to get back to you on this.
The spotted stains on Trex are usually on the bottom of the product. I'm informed that when it is extruded at the plant the water from the cooling tank creates some spots. I hope this answers your question."Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Sorry it took me soooo looong too. I've been very busy. The spotted staining I'm seeing here appears on top of the deck surface. I haven't had the opportunity to try washing the decks so I don't know if it is staining of just something (algae, etc.) on the surface.Richie
Here is a shot of the decking around a bench support."Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Decorator railing shots.............."Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Watch out! Pop's has his bags on!
Here's Pro-Dek w/o the camera"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Again, awesome looking work. What did you use for the balisters in the railing?
Thanks,Barney
The Balusters are 3/4" Deckorator but I won't be using their product again. They changed the wall thickness on me in the middle of the job.I am now using Alumistrade which comes either square or round. "Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Here is a shot of the decking around a bench support.
wow!You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
If that were done on my house, I'd have you rip it up and start over, those boards just ain't tight enough to the post ;)
J/K.
LOL- CAG- The nice thing about Screwed in installations is that if we make a mistake we can unscrew it and do it over again...........
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Mr. Pro,
Nice work! Please forgive all my seemingly trivial questions but I am using Trex for the first time on a large deck (824 sq. ft.) for my most important customer so I want to get it right the first time. You leave a 1/4" gap at the butt joists using the yellow spacing tool due to expansion of the Trex decking so why not leave a similar gap around bench support and railing posts?
What did you use to make the cuts for the posts? Jig saw?
Are you using the color coordinated Trap-Ease screws? I'm accumulating the supplies for the deck job while I finish up 2 interior jobs. the Trap-ease screws work well to eliminate mushrooming on a few test pcs.
I would be great to see photos of the completed benches, especially where Trex boards are butted.
Thanks for your help!
Jim, We but tight to the posts and space at the joints. This allows expansion and contraction at one end.
Our notches are made with a Porter Cable Jig saw.
Screws are C-Deck 10x2 1/2" ceramic coated (http://www.screw-products.com)
"First question is Free, every question after that is $50 bucks each."
Send donations to http://www.quittintime.com..........:-)
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Thanks bob.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
No Problemo Calvin,
Here is a shot of the bench framing before we wrap it and lid it with Trex. The first thing I have to do this morning is run my 5/8" X 2' long drill bit next to the bench support post for the under bench wiring."Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Nice work as always Bob. Thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge and skill with the rest of us.Kevin Halliburton
"I believe that architecture is a pragmatic art. To become art it must be built on a foundation of necessity." - I.M. Pei -
Bob, what's going on down the hill on that house in the background?(dscn6126). Could you telephoto that in? Looks like a 2nd fl addition but can't make out anything under it.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Sorry Calvin I forgot to reply to your post.
The house down the street has been quite intertaining to watch.
Today they put up the second story wall on the left side of the house and over it went to the ground below. No one was hurt thank goodness but seems like they may need a forman on the job that knows what he's doing."Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
oooops bob.
I see now that it's a whole house. Man, they got em crammed in there.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Heres a few more shots of the side stairs and landing and the platform steps with lights."Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Bob, was the reason for the landing outside the slider because of heavy snows."One measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions"
We don't get much snow here Woodrow. The reason for the landings and lower elevations is to get the railing height lower so you can see over the railing while sitting in the house.
It meant going into the crawl space and blocking between the wall studs to give us proper backing for the ledger bolts.
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Say Pro,
I know it's you and your 2 sons, but do you think , just maybe, that you could adopt me? Even if just for a season?
Doc
Bob: Your decks are so nice. Your work is always pleasing to the eye..you have a natural feel for what really looks good.
Thanks Stan! I always enjoy looking at your work as well......
Must be nice to work in cozy warm shop building stairs this time of year. A few snow flakes falling here today and we're booked with deck jobs till January.
I'll be posting some pictures on "How to build a deck in the snow" later.
Have a Great day!"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
I've enjoyed watching your progress on this deck. I've a lot of respect for what you do.
I'm not trying to be a wise-a** or stir up any s**t, but does the bench next to the railing violate the rail-height code? Even if it doesn't, technically, couldn't that pose a risk for climbing children?
High Tim, Good Question and I'll probably get a little heat for my reply.
I didn't know if the bench would be approved or not when I designed the deck, but it was in the plan and they did not make us change it.
Is it safe for climbing children? No.
Does it pose a risk? Yes
1.This deck is for empty nesters.
2.Children should not be allowed to climb anything w/o supervision.
3.Would I let my grandson out on this deck? Yes, but I would be there with him every minute and make it very clear to him that he is to stay OFF of the bench.
If we were to make the railing to code for this bench it would be 58" tall which would make for a pretty strange looking view deck.
Is it right to pose a risk for children? absolutely not, However.........
There are risks everywhere for children, playgrounds, ball field bleachers, tree houses, cars, boats, trains, sports, but along with risk comes responsibility.
This deck design is no more risky than a deck with horizontal cable railing which makes a great ladder for kids to climb up and over.
We live in a world of regulations and rules some better than others and some made to protect us from our own stupidity.
The customer is planting arborvitae around the perimeter of this deck which would make for a pretty soft landing if any little one decided to jump the 5 feet to the ground.
Thanks for a good question ................
Let the flame wars begin!"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
I don't disagree with the philosophical views you expressed regarding risks and responsibility.
But now I'm wondering: Does 5' qualify as a fall hazard? Or would the fall be constituted of 5' plus the height of the railing? I'm talking technically, here. I believe OSHA considers 8'+ a fall hazard and requires a guardrail or restraint above that. I don't know what building code is, though, for maximum height before one needs a railing.
Oh, and I haven't been high for a while :-)
Re your question, in my area & building code, any walking surface that is 30" above finished grade requires a 36" tall railing. We use an amended IBC. I don't really think OSHA come into play in this kind of situation; that goes more to the question if Bob needed fall protection while he was building the deck (yea right!).
Re benches, HOs always want those. To me, they just cut up/waste space and often, present the safety question posed above.. On the other hand, space is not a problem with this deck... Not to second guess Pro's work - he is THE master, more to the customer's design: I wonder what it would have been like if the benches were kept 3' from the railings so that someone could either sit facing the center of the deck, or sit facing the outward view....
Matt
Bob-
Great work. How 'bout an underneath picture again. How did you tie in the bench supports and the railings to the deck?You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
Marv - The railing and bench support post are box framed with 2X10's and nailed in place with 3 1/4" hot dipped galvanized framing nails(lots of them).
Here's a shot from underneath.
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Bob,
This is really a great thread. Besides some great pics of your work and God's work. There have been some great thoughts, questions, and answers.
No flames from Missouri about the bench/rail situation. Just furniture on the deck, in my eyes, no different than a chair sitting there.
Keep up the good work and thanks.View Image
Thanks for the kind words Bee.
Here are some shots of the finished bench. We will be installing lights underneath tomorrow.
I'm Glad you are injoying the thread."Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Great pictures. I particularly like the close ups. Question, in picture 6133 where you mitered the bench decking it looks like you "hit" it with a router to round over the edges a bit. Am I correct?
ThanksBarney
Yes, he did.
I was there that day.
Told him it would be easier on the router if he just turned it on, and used the roundover bit.
; )
Live, Love, Forgive and Forget
Quittin' Time
Thanks for the follow up. His work looks great. Very high end quality.
Barney
Luka, you know I turned the router on.......
My nail bags were full of Trex
I might mention the router has to be turned on it's side to rout the edges of Trex and that you might as well plan on getting that stuff down the back of your shirt cause it flys everywhere."Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Bee said essentialy the same thing I was going to.
Any child big enough to climb on that bench, then climb over the rail, is big enough to shove a plastic chair up against the rail for the same purpose.
A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
Thanks for the great pics.You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
Thanks, all, for the time you took to respond to me and my question about the bench/rail situation. I appreciate it.
BTW, somehow I failed to enter any bio info on myself when I entered the forum. Not that anyone particularly cares, but I didn't intend to be mysterious. Any suggestions how I can remedy that shortcoming? I can't seem to find a link that looks appropriate.
Tim- to inter profile on yourself all you have to do is:
1.click on "my forums"
2.then click on My Profile
3. then click on change profile
Nothing to it!"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Thanks, Bob.
Dirishinme is right about the rail height but it amazes me when I go to the waterfront and see a sagging chain between 2' high posts to keep you away from a 15' drop to the water, or waterfall step designs that have over a 4' drop between some steps.
I don't want to get harpin on that double standard in the industry thing again. "Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
I can understand the desire for a bench as well as the desire to fulfill code requirements. My own home was built by empty nesters and you can tell. Just as an ignorant homeowner, would it satisfy both masters if the bench was free standing? It seems like it would be possible to make 2 benches (to get the contour) that lock together and can be placed any distance from the railing. I think the design you have is beautiful, and with a 2 year old I'm mentalling pondering ways that it could be made family friendly.
Well said Bob. Codes cannot replace common sense. I deal with codes all day, every day, that take the right of intelligence away from designers.
The world cannot be made fool proof and fools cannot be made world proof. I'm glad we have codes but there are days I wish there was just a little more room in their waistband to allow for some broader ideas. :-)>Kevin Halliburton
"I believe that architecture is a pragmatic art. To become art it must be built on a foundation of necessity." - I.M. Pei -
I never recieved your e-mail. Try [email protected]. I see you edited your post. I think you edited the part where you admitted you buried the CBSQ standoff plate into the pad. It looks like the bottom of your posts are even with the top of the concrete pad. If that is the case, then in a climate like yours, the post would rot away pretty fast from water constantly pooling on the flat pad. If I was the homeowner I would be pretty upset about that. I would make you do it over.
OK Dog, Lets scroll back to post "45" again............................
First of all let me apologize for calling out the wrong model number, we used the CBQ not the CBSQ and I did not bury the pad. Look closely it is resting on top of the concrete as the manufacturer specifies.
Post #45 If YOU will read the Simpson catalog on page 36 you will find it specifies that you install ALL models with the Bottom of face plate flush with concrete.It also says that for higher downloads, solidly pack grout under 1" standoff plate before installing the CBSQ into concrete.
I took a picture of it today in case it wasn't clear to you.
The only time I edit a post is when I see a misspelled word or my big fingers hit more than one key. If I am wrong I will admit it and not try to hide it by editing my post.
Are you related to Larry?
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Nice shot of the footing. The Seattle area codes seem so much different than MA and they should be based on climate etc. For my porch (basically just a covered deck) I used 6x6 PT mounted in a Simpson ABA66 (I believe) lagged into a bolt in my footing which was 48" down. I liked that post base because it kept my posts off the cement and out of potential water etc.
It looks like you are allowed to use the wide footings and not worry about going down 48" or so to get below the frost line. Do you run into ledge under the top soil in that region?
SJKnow a little about alot and alot about little.
Soil conditions vary in our region as they probably do in yours. Some of our footings have to go down as deep as 12 feet on hill sides. Most of the ground is very hard. I have lost deck jobs that have needed $500 dollar deep Sono tube footings to guys that have no clue as to the work it takes to drill a hillside and pump concrete over a house.
If you are getting a permit for the job the building department already knows the soil conditions for that area and may require you to dig deeper footings than you have specked on your plans. "Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Interesting. My deck has been done for a while, 100% up to code, no worries here. 12' My God!!! that is a long way down. Can't say I have seen anything like that here New England....at least I personally haven't seen it.
Great job on the deck as usual. Are you putting in your lights on the stairs?
If I remember correctly you said that you get them from a marine supply joint, right?
SJKnow a little about alot and alot about little.
Thanks Steve, Yes, the steps and benches will have low voltage lighting. I buy the step lights from ITC http://www.itc-marine.com/index.html"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Pro... Is heat ever an issue with the lighting amd the plastic TREX?
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
Imerc- I'm not sure I understand your question? If you mean will the deck lighting affect the color or shape of Trex I would say no. I have not seen any problems.
We are using low voltage lighting 7 watt bulbs on most cases which are hot to the touch but not outside of the fixture.
I hope this answers your question.
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Well enough.
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
It looks like the bottom of your posts are even with the top of the concrete pad. If that is the case, then in a climate like yours, the post would rot away pretty fast from water constantly pooling on the flat pad
1.Yes the post are on the pad as specified by the manufacturer.
2. The posts are incised pressure treated and guaranteed not to rot in 50 years if buried and these my friend are not buried.
If I was the homeowner I would be pretty upset about that. I would make you do it over.
Over the years I have become a pretty good judge of character. If you were the homeowner on this job I probably would not have accepted to do business with you in the first place.
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Good thing Dogwood can do his own work cause no one could please him.
"Now here at the Rock we have two rules. Memorize them until you can say them in your sleep. Rule number one: obey all rules. Rule number two: no writing on the walls." Barney Fife
Marv
Edited 9/25/2003 5:41:16 PM ET by Marv
My engineer would never spec a CBQ for an exterior application. He often specs them for interior places like columns under ridge beams and crawl space piers. What did your engineer spec? I suspect it was the CBSQ after all. They are designed as an exterior base because of the integrated standoff plate.
I don't know why you keep repeating the spec about packing the stand off base with grout. We have average of 330 LBS/SQ FT snow load here and even then it is not often necessary to pack the standoff with grout, but I do anyway. The reason for the pack is to prevent the base metal from crushing from heavy loads. The CBSQ has only been available for four or five years now so I guess you didn't know the difference.
Pressure treating only effects the exterior of the post. The endgrain that is sitting in water can still rot whether in the ground or above. Fifty years isn't a very long time in my book unless your a deficit driving Republican. Let our kids inherit the problem. If you used the CBSQ as specced, then your post might get another 50 years.
So nobody likes me for poking the sacred cow. Doggone it. My hanky is so soggy now.
Dagwood, disliking you has nothing to do with poking a sacred cow. We don't like you because you come across as a know-it-all class A jerk. Do you see the difference? We sure do.
WoW! Thank you for the kind words aimless. I hope to dig myself out of this amature possition by posting some better pictures later on."Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Ease up there puddin` head...If Mom finds out your hangin` out on her computer again, yer in for it! Now, hurry off to school....don`t wanna be late for shop class do ya?J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
Hello there. First, from the pictures you have posted, you do awesome work. Question for you, the picture rem13 appears to have joists that run long from the house, or are they two seperate peice above the middle support?
Thanks
Barney
Well thanks Barney, The joists from the ledger on the house are 20'long 2X10 and they are not spliced together. What you are seeing is a new building code called pressure blocking over the beam run.
It really does nothing but keep the birds from nesting between the joists and the beam as far as I'm conserned.The decking keeps the joists from twisting.
I have to tell you that your local Home Depot doesn't carry lumber in these lengths and that they are very heavy to pack from the front of the house to the back.
Thanks for following along"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Thanks for the update. Gees, I can only imagine how heavy the 20' board would be. LOL!!
Anyway, thanks for the pictures.
Barney
Did I see flashing on those ledger boards? On the new homes here in Ks, the builders don't even require it. I never see it. Besides, who needs ledger boards! I found a house a few days ago that they just nailed the joist hangers direct to the siding. How often does that happen out there? Looks like it's going to be a great deck.
Is that in the valley that Mt. Ranier will destroy next time it 'burps'? ;o)
Well let's put it this way. When Mt. Rainier burps I hope I'm visiting friends in San Diego."Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Here is a picture of Mt Rainer. This was taken through my windshield just before I turned into the lumber yard. Like I said I don't want to be around when it blows."Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
I don't know how you guys can stand all that scenery you are showing off. Around here, there's no distractions with such trivialities. We can just work and work and never bother to look at the flat horizon.
We just try to block it out with a gray rainy day, but then that dang sun goes and pops out again. The air is clean and crisp and I woudn't trade it for anywhere else."Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
I'd like to see someone try to fasten a joist hanger to Hardie Plank. That stuff will bend a Teco Nail.
Yes you still have to attach a flashed ledger to a house here."Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Just wondering what part of KS you are in?
I don't know if it's required here or not by code, most decks don't need a permit, but I've never seen one built w/o flashing let alone hangers on the siding.
But I don't see a lot of new construction either.
The Count-Down begins, 92 days left
Pro-Dek,
That is some really nice work. I was just wondering how cold it gets in Seattle? Here in Massachusetts we have to go 48" on our footings. I thought Seattle got cold as hell in the winter.
I don't understand! I cut it twice and it's still too short!