Replies

1. 
   IBI | Feb 10, 2008 12:47am | #1

   Are you installing this as “siding’, meaning outside? If so this is probably not much use... I have installed about 25 T&G cedar cathedral ceilings - all have been blind nailed. No matter how long it takes - the look lasts forever. However, if this is an exterior application that thought is questionable. If you want to blind nail the cedar; I suggest using 8d ring-shank nails. Turn your hammer sideways [too allow the most surface area to hit to tongue] and force the boards together as much as possible without destroying the board. Start the nail at a 45’ angle directly though the tongue, once the nail has pierced the tongue [not yet piercing the framing] pull back on the top of the board and allow the nail to pierce the framing “lower/tighter” than what is required. As you drive the nail home it will pull the two boards completely tight. After you drive the nail home reverse you hammer, using the clawl, release/pull back on the crushed tongue to allow the following grove to slide easily over the previously installed board. Three other pointers: 1) When you encounter an extremely warped board - take a piece of scrap T&G [16“ or less] - center scrap over framing member - using a 16d common nail, nail the scrap piece in as discussed before only drive it home until the warped board seats itself - keep swinging no mater how much you destroy the scrap. Nail regularly on all remaining framing members - remove scrap last and nail last nail. 2) Cedar shrinks! I am assuming that the cedar you are working with is beveled. Beveling your butt joints will tremendously help to conceal this occurrence. After cutting your board to length use a block plane to ease the edge to match the boards profile. After some practice I can do this with an electric planer and a sanding block. Either way - Trust me it’s worth the effort in the long run! 3) Install your boards first and drywall second - using tear-away bead. This allows the cedar to shrink and you do not have to use a trim board in any corner. It’s a look you’ll love!

1. 
   Haystax | Feb 10, 2008 02:29am | #3

   Thanks for your advice - I should have clarified so in my first post, I will be installing both a ceiling and exterior siding - interior is 1x4TG exterior is 1x6TG. It is also a beveled product and very high quality, kiln-dried, stickered, stacked, pre-stained, back brushed, etc. - just about every labor intensive practice that can be added to the finished product. That is why I am reluctant to go through all that to ensure a good final look and then manually face nail each board at 16"ocThanks for the tip on the drywall! ;)

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   YesMaam27577 | Feb 10, 2008 01:01am | #2

   If the manufacturer says to face nail, than you should probably face nail.

   Seems simple to me -- they have rooms full of engineers that determine these kind of things. And in my neck of the woods, the inspectors insist that we follow the makers suggestions.

   Politics is the antithesis of problem solving.

1. 
   Haystax | Feb 10, 2008 02:38am | #4

   Manufacturer says two nails within 2' -

   Western Red Cedar Assoc. says up to 6" material can be blind nailed - [url]http://www.wrcla.org/installation_and_finishing/installing_siding/tongue_groove.htm [/url]

   Illustration suggests both face and blind nail for hot, windy, or seacost - I'm looking for some actual installer advice to go with manufacturer advice - thanks!

   I will probably do as the website suggests and use two - 1 blind staple and one 6d ring shank face nail. There are no inspectors nor is there a building department to consult with either - that's why I trying to find as much valid info as I can. thanks!

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   IBI | Feb 10, 2008 04:43am | #5

   In coordination with my last message:

   Absolutely DO NOT face nail with a gun. Gun nails will not hold the boards in place and destroy the look! If you are set on gun nailing, I suggest using an air powered floor nailer with T-nails, but not recommended.

   Only face nail the first and second coarses and the last courses that you can not blind nail. Use 6d or 8d finish. A calculation to the ridge is recommended. The larger the last board, the less accurate you have to be. I have found that the scrap rips from the first or last coarses, if wide enough, are a great source. Two 1x’s glued together, ripped to 2x2‘s, sanded, stained, and sealed work best.

   Ask your supplier for some references of older, not recently, sold/installed products [or similar] if it is not blind nailed, I would bet that the joints will not be tight. This would be the best indication of what your finished product will be a few years from now.

   I reiterate; do not face nail on your interior; the fasteners are in the wrong direction to properly hold the lumber in place.

   On the butt joints, finish nails work better [pre-drilling is recommended] - less splitting. Don’t be afraid to break off a section of tongue anywhere if it is going to interfere with the following coarse.

   Rip your first course angled to be greater or at least to match your rafter pitch - you need your drywall to cover your first course. A full board with the tongue attached probably will not work for the first coarse though this depends on the pitch. A board with just the tongue ripped off may work??? Play it safe - rip it to a plumb cut of the rafter or more. Also keep an eye on your distance to the ridge. A 1/16” per board will gain a 1” over 16 boards and is less noticeable than a skewed ridge Snap a caulking a caulk line for the first and second coarse is a must - everything follows this.

   After you have gone as close to the ridge as possible, using a pry bar and a scrap block, face nail remaining boards. Rip the backside of the tongue off to allow installation of very last boards. Finish by ripping a board to lay level across - approximately 1 1/2” to 3” wide [the smaller the better] nail on rafters. Mark rafters before installing boards.

   For your exterior I suggest using 30lb felt rather than house wrap. Also using galvanized nails will cause major black streaking. Cedar and galvanized do not mix!!!! Use yellow zinc or stainless. Stainless available through McFeely’s [http://www.McFeelys].com

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   Hudson Valley Carpenter | Feb 10, 2008 08:01am | #6

   I agree with all IBI's advice. 

   And you'd be much better off taking some time to learn how to blind nail by hand.  Unlike hardwood floors, it's really pretty easy to do in high quality cedar.