I have two block planes passed down to me from my grandfather. Problem is, the blade has a tendency to be too far forward resulting in no space for the waste to come up through. Back off the blade for space and it ends up too high to plane.
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I’ve studied it, but nothing logical comes to mind (my usual state). So … being the lazy guy that I am … I’m looking for all the block plane know it alls out there that can slap me upside the head and help me make these tools useful again … I know it’s gotta be something simple as they are very simple machines w/ no moving parts and only a couple of adjustments.
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Thought about something like raising the back of the blade up (away from the table) to increase the gap and angle a bit, but that’s not computing for me, either.
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Any thoughts?
Replies
I have the same problem with my Lie Nielsen low angle block plane. The mouth is cut slightly too narrow, it needs to be widened a bit to the front to allow more chip clearance.
My Stanley has an adjustable mouth, so no such problem.
A lot of this has to do with the type of wood and work you do. If you are looking to take razor thin shavings of hardwood, it shouldn't be an issue. If you're taking off huge chunks of cedar shingles to weave corners, it'll clog up.
I have not seen my block plane in a couple of years but its around somewhere.
i had enough room in mine to put the blade at a bit of an angle.
it was a cheap one.
are you sure you have the iron in right side up?
Yes ... but I've been known to miss the obvious before.
Clewless,
If you want to use this tool instead of keeping it lying around as a useless heirloom rust'n'dust collector, then you have three choices:
1. lower the bed
2. open the mouth
3. use it only for very fine work
In either of the first two cases, a fine cut file will do the trick. Take it easy - cast iron cuts very fast and you can't put it back.
Take a picture of it and post it here. It might help.
Fine Woodworking published an article about 20 years ago on how to take a block plane off a store shelf and turn it into a tool. Since reading that, I have been inclined to think about new gear as rough material to make a tool out of.
Ron
Not sure I understand. Lower the bed?
How would I open the mouth ... do I have to file it wider? But that doesn't compute w/ me as I was assuming original equipment wouldn't need such modification so I had a tendency to not be too radical about my solutions.
No pic ... not home to see it ... maybe I can get my wife to take some pics and send them to me.
What Ron said."do I have to file it wider?"
Yes, exactly, with a very fine file.I prefer the block planes with the adjustable throats. LN makes them, Stanley, Record, LV. I have the Lee Valley. That way you can adjust according to your cut.
The little apron planes that LN and LV make don't have adjustable throats, but they are only meant for fine shaving.Also, the blade may not be the original blade. What kind of plane is it?
Bevel up on most block planes. If the iron has no grooves for the lever adjuster, you may well have it upside down..
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
You gonna play that thing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Ln-SpJsy0
What kind of block plane? (Stanley 60 1/2, or ???)
Got a picture?
I've got 2. I'm guessing they are about 70 years old. Two different brands ... I think one is a Stanley ... not sure if the other has a brand on it.
Will try to get pics. Back to you later ....
Pics ...
The one on the right doesn't appear to have the problem. I'm not w/ the planes (pics courtesy of my wife). The one on the left clearly shows the lack of space. The one on the right might be retracted ... not sure.
The plane on the left has an adjustable mouth, it may be rusted to the point that you can't adjust it. Loosen the knob on the front and move the lever to adjust. Then enjoy ;-)
Pat
The one on the left looks like a Stanley low angle block plane with an adjustable throat. Tool needs a good cleaning and oiling. Take the iron out clean it and the ways , loosen the front thumbscrew if you can , if not clean and soak the front of the body in a penetrating oil until the thumbscrew will loosen , then slide the nose piece out of the body and cleans it's ways.
Reassemble the plane and with the thumbscrew loose you should be able to adjust the nose piece by moving that chrome piece from side to side. That piece adjusts the throat opening by moving the nose forward and back in relationship to the iron.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Dovetail took the words outa my mouth. After you get done cleaning and making sure all parts work easily, you'll have to tune the plane.The other plane might also be a Stanley, or a Craftsman, or Dunlop. Regardless, do the same to it.
I have both of those, mine too has no name on the fixed throat one. Dunlop rings a bell.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
You gonna play that thing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Ln-SpJsy0
Yeah, the low angle Stanley is a great little plane.
The smaller plane looks like a Stanley 60 1/2. A great plane, and well worth putting some effort into fixing. The ones who mentioned the adjustable throat are correct. Unfortunately I don't recall if you need to swing the throat adjustment all the way to the right or left to open the throat. ?If the mouth is all the way open, you may need to look under the blade and see what's there. The need may have to be lowered a bit. Or you may have some junk under the blade that's holding it up..The other plane is junk, IMHO. I never had any luck working with one of those except in really soft wood.
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.
My grandfather almost exclusively worked with pine ... maybe that is why. He couldn't afford anything else is my guess. Pine was VERY pletiful where he lived ... people just didn't hear of e.g. oak, etc back in those days, I think. He did some nice clean furniture. Nothing fancy, but well done ... still have some of it, in fact.
Next chance I get, I'll take a closer look at both and apply some thoughts I got on this post.
I agree with the low angle assessment. Soak that plane in some mineral spirits overnight and then start gently working that adjustable throat open. You might soak it with a rust buster of some sort instead. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Avoid any rust remover that contains an acid!!
Just use penetrating oil and keep it soaking until the pieces move easily.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Good tip Dovetail.Do all of the rust busters have an acid in them or are there some safe ones? Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I think the petro base classic rust busters like Liquid Wrench that are the safe ones. It's things like Navel Jelly that you would want to stay away from for something like this.
But yeah, soaking it is a great idea.
If you've not used PB Blaster yet, get some. It is excellent stuff. My basement flooded and 4 hyd. jacks were down there, rusted the small pistons solid..PB and a hammer freed them right up, and then the big piston would work too..I used a whole can and sprayed 3-4 times over a week.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
You gonna play that thing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Ln-SpJsy0
Looked like this guy had some reasonable deals. They may be junk but 9.95 buy it nows.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=370065392553
You didn't mention what brand block plane it is, but if its not one of the bigger names, the casting could still have some rough edges, which would cause the shavings to catch and clog.
File and/or sand everything around the mouth of the plane until you can't feel any rough spots. Then give it a coat of wax. Sharpen the blade, and try again.
As others have mentioned, you may have to open the mouth of the plane a bit. Do that slowly and carefully. You can't put metal back easily.
Most planes, when new, need some tuning up ( called "fettling"). Your plane may never have gotten this. Don't be afraid to spend some time making it right. It'll be worth it.
"Most planes, when new, need some tuning up ( called "fettling"). Your plane may never have gotten this. "I got my gem for the day. Thanks. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
thanks.
A lot of people think that they can take a plane out of the box, and start making shavings. Except for Lie-Nielson and Lee Valley/Veritas, and some even higher end ones, that usually doesn't work.
Sharpen the blade, get the sole of the plane flat, smooth any rough edges, and almost any plane will perform well. Don't do that, and its an exercise in frustration.
Depending on the condition of the plane, I usually figure about an hour to fully fettle a new one.
One possibility is that the original blade has been replaced with a thicker one.
Maybe, but I'm thinking the sharpened last 1/8" will make this issue irrelevant. I'll check it, though. I'm pretty sure they are the original blades.
You might have a blade that has been sharpened with too steep of an angle. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
With the bevel on the bottom the sharpening doesn't make any difference -- the unbeveled face is always towards the throat.
It is an ironic habit of human beings to run faster when we have lost our way. --Rollo May
LOL, I guess it's been a very long time since I've looked at a plane! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I have 4 block planes and they all are bevel up. regular smooth planes are bevel down.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
You gonna play that thing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Ln-SpJsy0
OK, I learned something.
It is an ironic habit of human beings to run faster when we have lost our way. --Rollo May
Are you sure the blade isn't in upside down?
I have read about making your own planes and just about the last thing they do is widen the mouth ahead of the blade.
It also comes down to personal preference and the material you are planing so maybe they leave it tight to the blade and let the end user open it up.
I prefer adjustable mouth planes for this reason.
Try moving the frog back.
Nope. Most Block planes don't have an adjustable frog. That's why they added the adjustable throat.
Just for the helluvit I reversed my iron in one here..it acts as the OP suggests, but some have the grooves for the adjuster and to upside down it would make adjusting impossible. I have 4, two are just adjusted by the wheel under the cap iron, the other two are Stanley's with the rear wheel..the two w/out the rear wheel take smooth irons and have non-operable throats.
I can post pics if needed.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
You gonna play that thing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Ln-SpJsy0
The key word was block plane that didn't register in my brain.
I have four block planes with non adjustable throats and only the 220 is even close to being tight.
I kinda thought that you missed that, but wasn't 100% sure. And ya never know, someone could have a block with a frog that moves, but I think that is what makes it a block plane, the fixed low angle, bevel up set up.
A 12 degree bed angle and a 30 degree bevel is 42, pretty close to a smooth planes bedded angle and the bevel becomes moot. I have made a few wood planes and I like about 45 for the bed. Up to 50 if its for nasty gnarly stuff. More of a scraping angle and fast chip break.
I love planes of all types, and one I made was a jointer, cherry body with rosewood sides and a dogwood branch tote..it was in the shop fire so all I can do is miss it.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
You gonna play that thing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Ln-SpJsy0
I have bought a few beaters and have made a few.
My favorite is a stanley #3 with corrugated sole.
I'd love to find a #1 or what ever that lil baby one was.
I had #7 that I milled the sole with grooves only on theback half..too much suction without. It would lift the wood on the back stroke. Sold it to Fast Eddie here.
I sent two #3's to Andy Few as a gift, they were notthe best but perfectly usable.
I always keep an eye open for a good find. Or wind up making a quickie for the helluvit. Simple dowel cross pin and laminate the sides to a block, make the wedge from the throat waste.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
You gonna play that thing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Ln-SpJsy0
Edited 7/8/2008 6:28 pm ET by Sphere
Don't have #1, doubt I will.
I bought a #7 corrugated from original owner for $5 at a garage sale in early 90's.
I have every one except the #1, many duplicates and a lot of them are Bedrocks. The #1 is very expensive. LN makes one and you can get it for I dunno...$200 or so, but a real Stanley in good shape goes for $1200.00 or more depending. I had a chance to pick one up locally for around $150 last year, part of it was broken and would have to be brazed, I just couldn't justify it at the time.
They take some time to fix up, but I find it very satisfying.Hey, I fergot...you've seen & held my day to day blocks...tried to steal one too....dinchya?!
You have Bedrocks??
Now I'm really jealous!
Next time I see him, I'll nab ya one.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
You gonna play that thing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Ln-SpJsy0
My favorite Bedrock is the 604 1/2 smoother. I have thought about getting a LN or Clifton blade for it, but right now don't use it enough to spend the $$. The thing weighs almost 5 lbs.
The others are 603, 605, & 606. They're old and two of them need to be restored, but everything is in working order. The 605 is the old rounded sides before the Bedrock changed to the familiar "flat top" sides.
25-30 years ago, I was wandering around a flea market, and a tool seller had a #1 on his table. IIRC, he wanted something like $250 for it.
I knew what it was, and how rare it was, but I was young, and had a hard time justifying spending what was probably a couple of weeks pay. So I didn't buy it.
At times, I still kick myself for leaving it there.
I also still want a Bed Rock plane or two. I've got a whole bunch of regular Stanleys, plus others. But no Bed Rocks.
Not all block planes are low angle. The "regular " ones are about 22 deg or so. correct on the other characteristcs (no frog, small, bevel up...)
Ok, well..low in relation to a bench plane?
I wonder where the term 'block' orginated. That was my firt plane when I was about 12 or so..I smoothed a sawmill slab and made a table that is STILL in use right in front of me, second generation of legs tho' with just that plane. Still have the plane too.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
You gonna play that thing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Ln-SpJsy0
I dont know where the term block came from, maybe because they are typically a compact "blocK" that can fit in one's hand. The "bench plane" term comes from the fact that the bigger planes are almost always used in conjunction with a bench to hold the work. Many of us have used a block plane in one hand, while holding the work with the other. try that with a # 7 jointer.
Stanley #1 can be found if you are willing to pay the price. they've been hoarded by collectors with the cash. I got infected with that disease a while back, but have kept it somewhat under control focusing on to the lesser expensive items.
For a very thorough treatise on the subject, with emphasis on Stanley planes, take a look here.
http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan0a.html
the owner of the site is a dealer selling these great tools.
enjoy
Ribbit ... the frog??