I worked on a house Saturday and Sunday because the house next door blew up. The builder told me that when the owner came home she opened up the front door and turned the light on the house blew up do to a gas leak and sent her flying across the front lawn.
Parts of the house the blew up landed on the house that I was working on and took out a 13′ section of the roof and pushed out the walls. The house is a gable roof with a 6/12 pitch with 18′ rafters, a 1×8 ridge, little 2×2 collar ties about 3′ long and every 4th rafter.
The section that was blown out, the ceiling beams ran Perpendicular to the rafters they were nailed into the gable studs, nothing holding the rafters in place like on a hip roof we double up the last two ceiling beams and the run outriggers nailed along side the rafters and into the double ceiling beam with hangers, this house had nothing just 1x nailers on the top plate for sheetrock. The rest of the house the ceiling beams ran with the rafters.
Every rafter has at least a 1/2″ to 1″ dip in them. This house should’ve been knocked down also.
Joe Carola
Replies
What kind of condition did that leave the lady in? Couldn't have been exactly a "welcome home"... Did they figure out what caused the leak?
and is her husband either a plumber or and electrician?
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
Casey,
The lady lived but I don't know what type of injuries she suffered. I'll find out what caused the gas leak. For something like this to happen, she must have smelled gas when she opened the door, who knows.
Joe Carola
You sure it wasn't Tim Taylor and Al?
Quality repairs for your home.
Aaron the Handyman
Vancouver, Canada
You sure it wasn't Tim Taylor and Al?
I think it was Steve Thomas and the carpenter Tye from Trading Spaces. ;-)
Joe Carola
If your tree falls on your neighbor's house, you're liable. So what if your house falls on your neighbor's house? A la the Wicked Witch of the West?
And: If a house blows up in the forest, and no one hears it, does it make a sound?
Seen in a feminist's office, "If a man speaks in the forest, and no one hears him; is he still wrong?"
David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
Edited 12/2/2003 1:08:34 AM ET by David Thomas
If your tree falls on your neighbor's house, you're liable. So what if your house falls on your neighbor's house?
I guess your still liable. Some fire jobs that I do damage the house next door, mostly just melting vinyl siding or vinyl replacement window. It's a good question and I'll ask that also.
Joe Carola
if your tree falls on your neighbor house due to an act of god, like a heavy storm, you are not liabile. And you can't sue god.
this same topic was on one of those law shows
The best employee you can have but you wouldn't want him as a neighbor " He the shifty type"
Has to be a live tree, if dead then thats neglect and not an act of god.
It was the Wicked Witch of the East that Dorothy's house landed on. The water soluable Wicked Witch of the West (played by Margaret Hamilton) was the one who wanted her shoes. ;-)
-- J.S.
"Seen in a feminist's office, "If a man speaks in the forest, and no one hears him; is he still wrong?" "
I like this version better, " If a man speaks and there is no woman present to correct him, is he still wrong?".
Excellence is its own reward!
I wouldn't worry about that house your working on. Sounds like the sheetrock is holding the whole thing together. They probably used that type 'X' sheetrock, which is a lot stronger you know...
Shows you the strength of them sheetrock screws Joe's been using!
Just throw more sheetrock screws on there and that'l hold it....
Maybe some ducktape banding around the outside for good measure..Christmas is coming..... should I buy the wife that new tablesaw ....hmmmm
many years ago i was in your exact same situation- fixing the house next to the one that blew up. i could hardly believe the houses on either side were even still standing because the exploding one was flat out GONE! the explosion was in the basement which probably helped contain the sideways blast, but man, practically everything above that was sent to oz or somewhere. if the big bang hadn't compromised the foundation, they probably could have just rebuilt it from the mudsills on up. very impressive.
m
Mitch,
The house that blew up was bought by a builder and they put up a new house already and he had asked the owner of the house I'm working on to by it from her. We can fix it up pretty good but to knock it down would have costed more money than the insurance company gave her. This happened 8 months ago.
Joe Carola
As strange as it sounds, this same thing happened to a coworker of my friend years ago. (I'm in coal country.) Apparently the water of his house was left running, his well was pumped dry, and gas filled the house via the well since the water seal was gone. When the owners came home, entered the house, they would have smelled nothing since ground gas is oderless. I believe both were killed when the house exploded. It doesn't take much pressure inside a house to bring the walls down either. Shouldn't there be some water trap for safety like all the drains have? I've never had a well, but seems like there ought to be built-in safety features for them.
Whoa! Are you saying that sewer gas that comes back up your basement drain traps (such as in the winter for some reason) can blow up your HOUSE?
We are goners for sure.
No, he wasn't talking about SEWER GAS, I believe, but a local occurance of methane SOIL VAPORS near a domestic well (related to the unlying coal beds). Methane can also be in the soil vapors around a landfill (where it is recovered and burned), and I have found it in certain sites where fuels where spilled and soaked DEEP into the ground.
The biggest sewer gas occurance I'm aware of was not in a dwelling but in the sewer main. About 7 years a mile of a major road in Guadalajara, Mexico blew up. The state-owned refinery (Pemex) had dumped fuel out the sewer, explosive levels developed in the air in the sewer pipe (like 6-foot diameter?), and something ignited it.
Note that even in that extreme case, explosive sewers gases DIDN'T get into structures (P-traps doing their jobs). But dozens died when the pavement went flying.David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
Fuel gas leaks are another big cause of explosions. My sister reports a joke from Ireland: " What's the difference between the IRA and Dublin Gas? The IRA give you a warning." ;-)
-- J.S.
Fuel Gas leaks:
Living in California at the time (10 years ago or so), two cases come to mind:
In Alameda, CA (an island off of Oakland), a Pacific Gas & Electric pressure regulator failed, sending medium pressure (5 - 30 ?) psig natural gas to people's homes instead of 7" water column (about 0.25 psig). So pilot lights in stoves and HWH became blow torches. Caused lots of excitement and a few fires.
In Lake Tahoe, there was a heavy snowfall followed by warm temperatures. Sliding snow. Some people discovered why the propane shouldn't be near the house or near any slope in snow country. The snow would fall and dislodge the tank. That pulled on the copper tubing. If lucky, it broke outside the house. If unlucky, it broke inside the house, venting and filling the house from the bottom up with propane (heavier than air). About a dozen houses blew up that year. Don't recall any fatalities.
A good reason to be born in the 20th or 21th centuries, IMO, is indoor plumbing and central heat. But, hey! Let's do it right.
David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
Also in Kansas 2 or 3 years ago there was a problem with some old wells that where being used for underground storage.
NG started leaking out and through some underground fissures and blew up a fair amount of a little town.
Don't know where Gunner was then, but I was at home, about 8 miles from the area the sewers blew.
Since you went to Speed School, you know the Ralston-Purina plant is right next door to the University of Louisville campus. It collasped streets for a lot more than a few miles. Repairs took forever and one of the main lumber yards went under because of it. Louisville was basically quartered from the north/south axis of I-65 along an east/west line to the main sewage treatment plant in the west end. Fortunately, because of the early time of the explosion, there were no serious personal injuries. Public and private property damage was extensive along the path of the sewer main. I worked on about ten homes in the area, doing everything from window replacements to rebuilding broken foundations. Purina paid every claim without so much as a puppy dog wimper.
Dave
"Purina paid every claim without so much as ####puppy dog wimper."
That is probably why it is not as well known. If it had gone to court there would still be claims and counter-claims being litegated.
"Ralston-Purina pleaded guilty of four counts of violating federal environmental laws, and paid a fine of $62,500. In February, 1984, the company agreed to pay MSD more than $18 million in damages. Many millions more were paid to other government agencies and private individuals who suffered damage."
http://www.msdlouky.org/aboutmsd/history20.htm
This and some of the following pages have some pictures of the streets.
"Since you went to Speed School, you know the Ralston-Purina plant is right next door to the University of Louisville campus"
I had forgotten where all of this was until you mentioned that.
What part of the city are you from?
I grew up at Hike's Point (Taylorsville Rd and Hike's LN) and later Hursborne Rd. None of those areas are reconizable now.
My sister lives in Midletown and I have a number of cousins htat "invaded" Oldham County.
I grew up in the south end around Iroquoise Park. Afte a stint in the Navy I lived the next 32 years off of Dixie Highway (US31W). Since I work at one primary location, I don't get around the area as much as I use to. I dont' reccognize many of the neighborhoods I once worked in. Middletown, Douglas Hills, the Hurstborne coridor and many of the east end areas have grown so much I think I would need a GPS to find anyplace.
To many people breathing the same air for me. We could not afford Oldham County, so we moved right next to it in Henry County. I am a wanabe east ender, but my southend roots keep tripping me up :)
Dave
"To many people breathing the same air for me. We could not afford Oldham County, so we moved right next to it in Henry County. I am a wanabe east ender, but my southend roots keep tripping me up :)"
LOL.
When we lived on Hurstborne there where about 5-10 house and many bends in the road. You are right about needing a GPS to find anything now.
Louisville had a big one also. It was haxane that was discharged into the sewers.
Where was Gunner that day?
http://www.courier-journal.com/cjextra/2003projects/toxicair/0713/2wir-5-blast0622-7937.html
"An unforgettable sight: a series of explosions, like a bombing run, along the streets of Louisville possibly triggered by a spark from a car, wrecked more than two miles of Louisville streets. Feb 13th (Friday) 1981.
The cause? An illegal discharge of thousands of gallons of the solvent hexane from the former Ralston-Purina soybean plant on Floyd Street. (edited for brevity)"
Bill: Thanks. I'd hadn't heard of that one. May explain why I was finding it so hard to discharge treated groundwater (previously containing gasoline) in the late 1980's. Sewer Districts were really uptight.
David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
The other extreme example that comes to mind is documented in the movie Christmas Vacation.
:) Dean
There was a house in Montrose CO that blew up with a lady asleep in it. Mid eighties. She did not have gas. There was an extensive investigation into possible causes with no definite conclusion but leaning towards ground gas.
We have an almost impoermeable clay layer here about three feet down. When it underlies a wet area with vegetation and poor drainage, there is a lot of anerobic decomposition leaving a sewer gas smell behind. It is really strong sometimes when you dig a hole and expose it to open air.
so I can easily imagine methane seeping into a house through cracks in foundations. I think this is so rare because you need exactly the right combination of O2 and gas to get ignition..
Excellence is its own reward!
Wierder even than that -- There are a few very deep lakes in Africa that have naturally carbonated springs feeding into the bottom. This leads to a buildup of CO2 in the water at the bottom of the lake, and every few hundred years, it does a rapid turnover, sending huge amounts of CO2 over the surrounding land, which kills everything that needs oxygen.
-- J.S.
"There are a few very deep lakes in Africa that have naturally carbonated springs . . . leads to a buildup of CO2"
Yep. Hundreds died in 1990 and dozens at another lake the next year. It happens on some natural cycle when so much CO2 is dissolved deep that any little surface event causes the lake to turn over.
The research I've seen on it says that about 1/3 of the CO2 is released during those events. It becomes self supporting because as deep, CO2-rich water rises, the bubbles get bigger, the density lower, and that packet of water moves up even faster. Sucking more CO2-rich deep water behind it.
The tragedy is that 400 feet of 6-inch PVC pipe could slowly bleed off the CO2 from the deep and eliminate the hazard. Just air-lift pump (a 1-hp A/C) for a few minutes and it would than power itself.
But my wife couldn't even prescribe $0.10/day pills in Zimbabwe to cure people of malaria, etc. The total cure had to under $1.00 US.
We are definitely considering some kind of Doctors-without-border, Engineers-without-borders thing when Drake's immune system is fully developed (i.e. age 5 or so).David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
"I think this is so rare because you need exactly the right combination of O2 and gas to get ignition."
Yes. In the ground, there is far too much CO2 and almost no O2 to allow a flame front to propagate.
But if a bit, and not too much of high CH4 soil gas is mixed with atmospheric air, it can go BOOM.
Some environmental engineers (lacking an understanding of high CO2 and low O2) try to run automotive engines to clean-up these sites. One has to bleed into so much ambient air to add O2 and dilute the CO2, that supplemental fuel is needed to keep it running. Negating the primary advantage. As I keep telling those folks, "Why is there CO2 in fire extinguishers? Because it works!"
David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
Okay,
The rarity makes me feel a bit better. And having talked to all the neighbors around here, they're all pouring water down their basement drains at least once a day around here at this time of year.
But then I cruised by the archives today while I was waiting for a student at the library. They had a display on books of the history of the neighborhood.
My neighborhood? Used to be a lake of mud until 1897 when a big channel was dug to one side of us (a few blocks east). The Chicago River sits to the west.
I'm above an old swamp.
You can pour in a small amount of mineral oil to form a non-evaportating seal.
The house is completely gutted. The area where the porch was the sills and box were rotted. The side where the ceiling beams ran parallel with the rafters we built temporary walls and took out the whole wall because during the explosion it knocked the top of the studs right off the top plate, so we strung lines across the top plates from one end to the other and rebuilt a nice level wall.
Joe Carola
A boiler salesman once told me, "It's not the gas that kills people, it's the guy that opens the basement door, says where's that gas smell coming from and turns on the light."
Yesterday I couldn't even spell plumber, today I are one.