Client just asked if I could do that. I know I can, but I’m not sure if I should. Never even considered it. 2″ X 12″ x 48″ stones, 2 treads. They want them to look like they’re floating.
Bitch-a-thane the stringer tops? Vinyl, galvy, copper flashing? Would PL or Lexel hold the treads in place?
I’m leaning towards getting a steel carriage welded and galvanized, but if PT would work, they’re willing to give it a shot… anything to save a buck<G>
Winterlude, Winterlude, my little daisy, Winterlude by the telephone wire, Winterlude, it’s makin’ me lazy, Come on, sit by the logs in the fire. The moonlight reflects from the window Where the snowflakes, they cover the sand. Come out tonight, ev’rything will be tight, Winterlude, this dude thinks you’re grand.
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Are you thinking notched stringers? 4x12 maybe?
Ever wonder why "holistic" doesn't start with "w"?
Hey Jim,Maybe 4 2x12s ? I have no idea how strong non-continually ( is that a word?) supported 2" thick stone is. I don't like more than 16" oc for 5/4 treads... 4x 12s are special in these parts... the treads are about a reputed 100# each, but i haven't checked that<G>If you've got any extra wet, wring it out over here, please. Winterlude, Winterlude, my little daisy,
Winterlude by the telephone wire,
Winterlude, it's makin' me lazy,
Come on, sit by the logs in the fire.
The moonlight reflects from the window
Where the snowflakes, they cover the sand.
Come out tonight, ev'rything will be tight,
Winterlude, this dude thinks you're grand.
Well...48" treads...what would be a safe cantaliever off each end, 12"? That would leave 24" - 6" (fat) if you double up 2x12 for stringers...that means you'd have, what, 18" between stringers?
Don't know much about bluestone, but seems doable. I'd be inclined to give that a try. And what the heck you going to flash the stingers for? That freakin' acq we get nowdays, that .40 retention? That stuff can go right in the ground. That ain't gonna rot from a little water, man.
Dowels sound like they might weaken the stone, to me. I'd think you would get a lot of help from gravity, wouldn't you? Find some type of adhesive in a tube and lay those stones on there and I bet you'd be good to go. Ever wonder why "holistic" doesn't start with "w"?
I think you may be keying on the Henry Ford stairbuilding system... build it light, if it falls down, beef it up! LOLActually, I probably have been over thinking this... oh, right <G>4 ground contact 2x12 notched strings w/ 2x4 stiffeners... 6" cantilevers, 12" centers, 1 1/4" nosing over hang, a little lexcel... Winterlude, Winterlude, my little daisy,
Winterlude by the telephone wire,
Winterlude, it's makin' me lazy,
Come on, sit by the logs in the fire.
The moonlight reflects from the window
Where the snowflakes, they cover the sand.
Come out tonight, ev'rything will be tight,
Winterlude, this dude thinks you're grand.
Hmm, only the two?
Epoxy some 3/8" allthread into the bluestone. Put some sort of isolation (like ice&water shield, ar a fat bead of silicone allowed to set up) on the bearing surfaces. Dril lthe stringers for the all-thread, counter-sink a flat spot for washers & nuts i nthe bottom of the stringer. Slide treads onto stringers and bolt home. Done.
Now, I can't allow as how I've ever worked that much with bluestone, but 2" sounds a tad thin for a self-supporting stair thread. May not be.
I've a nagging fear that it might "look" too thin, though. My experience is that, just by eye, a free-standing tread "looks" more sturdy around 3-4" thick.
Hmmm. Do you need to give Jimmy credits on your quote? LOL
Do you need to give Jimmy credits on your quote?
But I do, Mr Buffett was called Bubba by his father all the time he was growing up.
Off to parrothead time out with you <g>
(Put some Hines57 on the fries with my bacon-cheeseburger today <G>.)
Gotta go, Snake needs help on the Condo Rescue Team <g>Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
My apologies. Read the book, but dont remember. (that might have something to do with my childhood but that was more related to Jim Morrison and the Doors, not JB
Man, I hate you LOL trying to sneak in a couple hubdred pounds more.But, I can see something in the threaded rod, may be use another couple of nuts and keep the stone off the stringer and get some breathing room? Winterlude, Winterlude, my little daisy,
Winterlude by the telephone wire,
Winterlude, it's makin' me lazy,
Come on, sit by the logs in the fire.
The moonlight reflects from the window
Where the snowflakes, they cover the sand.
Come out tonight, ev'rything will be tight,
Winterlude, this dude thinks you're grand.
may be use another couple of nuts and keep the stone off the stringer and get some breathing room?
Well, I was starting from a bed of silicone or the like, to eliminate any sork of wicking, and letting gravity do the rest, in my thinking process.
Dowel pin in the stringer and matched hole in the tread occured to me, let gravity do the work, was next. A piece of threaded rod preventing uplift seemed a logical next step.
Then, the 2" thickness and two stringers made an image for me.
2' might be fine, visually, it might "want" a third of fourth stringer, though. Not like I know bluestone that well, though.
Lifting the tread off the stringer to keep it out of contact makes sense, but you might need more points of support, which means more drilling the bluestone, and more holes through the stringers--neither entirely satisfactory.
One of my other thoughts, starting out on this, was that a bit of 1/4' galvainzedsteel plate between the stringers would really be the way to go. Three, four holes in the plate for some epoxied studs into the bluestone. Lag the plate into the risers, and call it done. the 1/4" plate would be near invisible, but still there. But, that's more work, too. (Like you need more weight in this <g>)Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
I see stacked (horizontal) ripped 2x8 for the carriage, vs, traditional notch.
I swear I saw it on the Flintstones. Might give a more stout look for a stonehenge type appearance.
Ah..one cuppo coffee, whadda I know.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Sucess is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
I dont have any good ideas but would love to see picts of the final result. If it works, i'd consider doing it.
I know my landscaper uses polyeurethane glue (PL or equiv) to glue bluestone onto segmental block walls and concrete block etc since they dont do much cement work.
He says he has had no problems with it for several years now.
I've worked on something similar with the beefy stringers. They had ledges fastened.
I can't remember the parts but the treads were similar to what you are thinking of. It was very substantial stairway.
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
2" x 12 x 48" unsupported is not going to have any strength at all. I would not want to walk on those. Nor would I want to with a 2' section in middle with stringers and cantilevered 12" sides. They will not survive. At a minimum, I would attach a 2" or so angle iron to the backs running the full 48" width, with another on the underside towards the front ( you could always set it back a bit, cut a long skinny piece of stone and epoxy it to the front of the step (like a countertop) to hide the front angle iron. Would also make the stone appear thicker. Although I still think that would be insufficient to be confident that the stone will not simply snap when chubby uncle Charlie steps on it. Overall I dont think it is a great idea without a properly constructed steel frame to support the stone. I also think it would look nicer with a thicker stone ( min. 3")
You think you are gonna be able to get away with the open risers? I'd make the customer sign off on that before spending much money and time on it...
You think you are gonna be able to get away with the open risers?Matt,Have you had problems with open risers and inspections? I haven't done any lately, but I have done plenty. I just bid some plans with interior open risers. I'm not seeing anything in the code book, but that doesn't mean much<G>Hey, how's things over in Packland? The Heels are playing in about 2 mins. Winterlude, Winterlude, my little daisy,
Winterlude by the telephone wire,
Winterlude, it's makin' me lazy,
Come on, sit by the logs in the fire.
The moonlight reflects from the window
Where the snowflakes, they cover the sand.
Come out tonight, ev'rything will be tight,
Winterlude, this dude thinks you're grand.
When we went to IRC2000 back in 2002 open risers were no longer allowed - or at least a 4" sphere was not allowed to pass through the riser.
I just got the new residential code book over at that place in Garner. The first of January ('08) the 2006 NC code is adopted which is actually the IRC 2003. Isn't it amazing who swiftly and efficiently our state government moves on these things :-)
I just went out to my truck to get it. It says in R311.5.3.3 Profile: ......"Open risers are permitted, provided the opening between the treads does not permit the passage of a 4-inch diameter (102mm) sphere." and then under "Exceptions:" below it says "2. The opening between adjacent treads is not limited on stairs with a total rise of 30 inches (762mm) or less." That last sentence is a new one on me (I think), but it makes sense since you don't need guard rails for anything under 30 inches.
To answer your Q - I haven't had any inspection rejections, but stopped building upen riser steps back in '02. That mainly pretains to decks and outdoor stuff. Course I don't get a chance to build stuff like Gene pictured. BTW - why can't you show that pic to your cust? ;-) I can't imagine that a little set of steps like that could cost more than 18 grand or so... :-)
Edited 12/22/2007 6:03 pm ET by Matt
We have had to close in the triangular tread/riser gap until we've gotten the co... and screw a temporary 2 x 4 on the handrails <G>This set is 3 6" risers and obviously less than 30"... I have a friend who makes stuff like Davis posted, galvanizes it and all, but astronomically priced... these clients would want it, but blame me for not being "able" to afford it, since I have all the rest of their money... right<G> Winterlude, Winterlude, my little daisy,
Winterlude by the telephone wire,
Winterlude, it's makin' me lazy,
Come on, sit by the logs in the fire.
The moonlight reflects from the window
Where the snowflakes, they cover the sand.
Come out tonight, ev'rything will be tight,
Winterlude, this dude thinks you're grand.
Here ya go. Fabricated steel.
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Jeeze, I can't show 'em that <G> Winterlude, Winterlude, my little daisy,
Winterlude by the telephone wire,
Winterlude, it's makin' me lazy,
Come on, sit by the logs in the fire.
The moonlight reflects from the window
Where the snowflakes, they cover the sand.
Come out tonight, ev'rything will be tight,
Winterlude, this dude thinks you're grand.