Hello – This is my first time posting, because I am new to this forum. I am a construction newbie, so any advice that you can give would be great.
Here is the problem.
I am having a contractor pour a foundation for me. He is using a Bobcat to move materials. The last time he used it to move the cement mix for the pour. In doing so, he almost got the Bobcat stuck twice, because the ground was so wet. I need to get him to finish, but he is wary of starting again until the ground is dry. What can I do to prevent the Bobcat from getting stuck if the ground is wet again? A friend recommended laying down a plywood track. WOuld this work? Are there any other ideas?
Thanks in advance.
Replies
Hire a line pump or boom pump....inexpensive (most places), little or no spillage, good placement in forms with little or no vibration (if the pump man is experienced).
IMO, using a skidsteer to place mud is like laying asphalt with a backhoe. (I saw that fiasco once).
If he insists on a skidsteer in the mud, it should be one of the tracked models.
BTW, welcome to BT!
I'm sorry. I wasn't clear as to what is exactly going on.The footers have already been poured. My contractor wants to use the bobcat to move the cement block to the foundation. I'm guessing he will also use it to excavate for the slab, but I am not sure on that one.So the real problem isn't how to pour, it is how to prevent the Bobcat - or any other machinery - from getting stuck in the mud.
OK, so he needs a driveable surface....used to be a lot of that surplus steel tank road stuff from the Army.
I still think he's got the wrong machine for the conditions.
A tracked skidsteer, a telescoping forklift, a small trackloader....
I subbed for a company that was building on the beach. Their solution was chain link fence. Worked for our trucks. Had no tractors or skids on-site, but a bobcat is just about as heavy as a pick up. I don't know how the skidding will work with fence though.
Can't I go 1 day without spilling my coffee?
Welcome to the board.
There isn't a contractor in the world that hasn't dealt with mud, unless they build in the middle of the desert. It's just part of construction. Part of the game.
Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it. He likely knows what he's doing, and will get along fine.
Here is a thought: If you design a solution for him and the bobcat still gets stuck, who's responsibility is it?
Bobcats are no good in deep mud or soft sand, unless they have tracks, there is virtually no ground clearance and they will slowly bury themselves. Check with your local rental store and rent some equipment that will get you thru the mud or subcontract a person that has the right set up.
You can run on plywood but it has to be 3/4" and that can get pretty pricey. And if you have any slope at all you will need to put some kelts on the plywood for traction as once those tires get slicked up with mud its spin city. You will also have to stake the ply down or the bobcat will start shooting them out.
Or wait till the ground firms up and go at it
Welcome to BT.
I solved a similar problem by buying road base and gravel. For a few hundred bucks I put road base (a sandy mix with little clay and about 40% pea gravel) down and then a layer of 3/4" gravel on that. Dump trucks brought it to where they could dump and I spread it with a skid loader. It was not the end of mud, but we were able to pour and it was very handy (and time saving) on the rest of the project.
When the house was done we scraped up some of that material and put it down elsewhere for permanent driveway. The rest we filled over during the landscaping.
Ever think how many times you scrape your boots (and your hired help scrapes their boots) during the building of a home? For us I think the cost was over-all negated by saved labor and hassle.
I'm thankful for the loyal opposition! It's hard to learn much from those who simply agree with you.
I try to be helpful without being encouraging.
That.......
is just an excuse, and you're buying it.
He's behind on other jobs, that's why he's not onsite.
Thank you all for your input. I think the plywood option really isn't one, considering all of the other aspects of it.Unfortunately, I think he might be pushing me off. I guess I will have to get the whip out.Thanks again.
Why in the world would you use block when there are ICF's?
Stack'em like building blocks, foam them together, put in the required rebar and pump in the concrete.. So easy that a first time DIY like myself had no problem. That plus you wind up with an insulated basement and a way to hang sheetockor wood panels easily..
Keep the bobcat at home!
French- - Thanks for the advice. I will keep it in mind.The project is a separate workshop from the house. There isn't going to be a basement, so I'm not worried about insulation. The block is only going to 16" above grade. Even with the styrofoam forms, the Bobcat would be necessary to fill the forms and pour the slab. The site just isn't that accessible on the property.You can see and read more about the progress on my wesbite: http://www.theworkshopproject.com I am tracking the progress of it there.Jonathan
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Hey, those are pretty well done plans for not coming off a CAD program. Actually - better than some builders and designers plans i have seen.How far it is from the stockpile to where the block will be laid? It doesn't seem like a large number of block, enough to worry about how it gets there.Maybe it's my age, but i don't stop to thionk about equipmwent if uit isn't right handy. I just DO IT! The number of block could be carried aroudn to the back of the house in a couple of hours. Retgional differenxce here too. I couldn't figure out what you meant about him excavating the slab after the footer is already in. Here, we excavate all first, then form and pour.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin -The construction site is about 200' from the road. My neighbor has a long driveway that they have allowed the contractor to drive down. He then cut through some old bushes. But from my neighbor's driveway to the site is still 75' - 100'.You can see the site plans here:
http://www.theworkshopproject.com/images/plan_FoundationZoning.gif
Forgive me for being off topic...
Your electric plans show your ceiling fixtures all tied together, thus all turning on at once.
I found in my shop that if I split the fixtures into two switches, it saves costs on electricity and longevity on bulbs. I don't need that much light all the time. When I do, I throw another switch.
Stonefever -I have planned to have half of the light fixtures on one ciruit, and the other half on another for the exact reasons you stated. I was spliting up the grid between the two circuits. I'm sorry if my plans didn't convey that. I'm flying blind on how to do these plans. I've never created architectural plans before this project.JPS
Over-the-tire steel tracks are fairly common here in the great Northwest (we do have some occasional mud...) I bought a used set of steel over-the-tire tracks for a little over $100. However, the article I cite below (an industry survey of skid steer tracks) says they typically cost from $2,000 to $4,000 new. I did see a website tht listed a set for well under $1000 that made with bent steel flat bars welded to chain rather than the cast steel links and cross ties that mine has. A picture of a set similar to mine is shown in the following article (you need to page down a ways to see it.):
http://www.compactequip.com/features.php?Show=righttracks
Don't know if just the tracks could be rented. I haven't needed to use my yet so I don't know how close I can come to the suggested installation time of 30 minutes.
Edited 4/11/2005 12:25 am ET by CaseyR
JPSczc
So don't worry about their insulation value, think of them as an easy form to use to do poured walls instead of block walls. Call the cement company and they will send out a pumper when you are ready for it. the pumper will pump concrete to wherever it needs to be. In my case they only had a short distance to go but I've seen them pump concrete well over 1000 feet.
There are easy ways to do things and hard ways. Hauling cement block over muddy ground is one of those hard ways, you not only need to worry about getting the block to the location but also the sand and motor etc.
I've seen skid steers with tracks on them stuck just as badly as those without tracks, once the belly of the skid steer starts to drag you're really at the end of it's capability.. Doing a 1000 feet of plywood is hardly affordable and what will you do with the damaged plywood when you are finished? Don't think of trying to use it on the floor or someplace, plywood used in that way is really going to be good for one thing, a nice fire..
Want a test? Run over a piece of plywood that is layed down on top of mud. go back and forth the number of trips that you think you will need to in order to get the block and stuff there. Now pull the pieces up out of the mud and decide if that's what you want for your subfloor.
But the 'game' has already started. It can be risky to start changing the game plan after the game has started.
JPS, that is a nice moat you've got there! Did you say you got the footers poured?
jt8
Don't accept your dog's admiration as conclusive evidence that you are wonderful. -- Ann Landers
JTB -I thought the moat might help keep the neighbors away from my tools :-)The footers have already been poured. With the rain we've had, there is now about 1/8" to 1/4" of mud on top of the footers.JPS
I thought the moat might help keep the neighbors away from my tools :-)
That might backfire. In some parts of the country, standing water draws rednecks with fishing poles. In which case you just walk by and ask, "how they biting today?" ;)
jt8
Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself. -- Leo Tolstoy
are you going to use a pressure washer to get that mud off the footers before he lays the block? The mostar won't adhere to mud, and mud is not a very good load bearing material.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin -My contractor said that he was going to clean off the footer before he lays the block. JPS
JT8 -I agree. I need to get teh foundation done as soon as I can. I don't want to throw a curveball to this guy that might make it take longer.If I was doing the work myself, your idea would be perfect. Unfortunately I don't have any expereince with concrete or masonry. I don't want to screwup the most important part of the building.JPS
Also if the details or correct you only show 240 recept for the TS and 120 out the outside for everything else.The 8" joiner, planner, and dust collection systems could probably use 240 also.Since this for a single user (not commercial shop) you can share the 240 with all of those except the dust collector. You want that on a separate circuit.
Bill -I plan to use 220 for the dust collection. I moved the dust collection to the other end of the shop, but I forgot to update the electrical plans.Thanks for the catch.JPS
I did not understand the distance for that biobcat. I thought he was just moving aroundthe hopuse and withing the pwerimeter. You do need a way to get water away though, even if it is a small drywell perc hole.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin -Yeah, I know. I have some standing water issues on my property. I am going to consult with a landscape architect this summer and see what kind of master plan they can come up with. I was thinking of putting in some French drains, but I want to make sure that I put them in the proper place that would benefit the entire yard.JPS
I have often used the plywood idea with good results, if you don't have to go to far. We usually do it to protect the lawn. I have a bunch of old 24" cement forms, that are worn out, that we say down in two tracks for the wheels, and two 4'x8' sheets fastened together with a continuous hinge to act as a spinning platform. We drive forward, or backward as suits the situation, and spin on the 8'x8' platform (lubricate with water). Customers really appreciate the extra effort.
I enjoyed reading your contractor contact log. Left message - no response: repeat... Have you added up how many calls in total just to secure your foundation contractor. I scanned it and it looked like at least 100 - no kidding. One call to a good reference is worth it's weight in gold.
You may want to reconsider posting all your bids prior to making a selection, unless this is an intentional strategy to foster an open competition.
Seems like several companies on that list could benefit from reviewing your log as a check on their customer engagement practices.
Best of luck on your project. Keep up the log, it would make a great case study or FHB article. I can see potential quotes like, "On average it takes 65 calls to get started with the foundation work. 80% are missed calls and no returns... After contract award we had XXX number of contact points. Expect to dedicate XXX hours for..."
Dean -
Thanks for the words. My intention on tracking contractors was two fold:
1. To provide a list of contractors to anyone in the area. It is pretty much unfiltered.
2. To create a real-world journal of all of the things that go into a construction project. As I am a home owner and not a professional that hasn't done anything like this before, I thought I might be able to help someone else if they ever decided to do something like this.
I haven't been as thorough in my record keeping as I would have liked - my wife and I just had our first baby - but I think people will get the idea of the issues that come up in any construction project.
I did send the editors at Fine Woodworking a letter about my website, but they haven't contacted me for anything other then "thanks for the information".
I thought this cartoon kind of summed up my experiences with contractors so far:
View Image
JPS
That is very funny. I am a former contractor. I only do work for myself now as a homeowner. Many of my contacts have either moved on or are no longer available to help out on small projects, so I find myself in your shoes, or tackle the job myself, which just adds ungodly amounts of time to any schedule. We have perfected the application of best practices from NASA contracting on our projects. We have no concept of schedule, budget or technical scope. All our projects take three times longer than planned, cost four times as much and can not be recognized based on initial design.Based on my experience, if the shop gets drywalled, you will need to invest in more disk space to manage the call back list...Keep us posted as you reach milestones to remind us to visit your site. You will get done.
Edited 4/13/2005 1:43 pm ET by Dean
Dean -Again, thanks for the kind words. I will keep the forum posted on my progress.JPS