Hi, my HVAC guy’s trying to talk me into buying one of these. Installed it’ll be about $5K. Our boiler, while it is close to 20 yrs old, seems to be doing fine but I know it’s a matter of time before it buys the farm.
Help me out here, fellas.
Some facts:
house in Mass
2500ish sq feet
have radiant on the 1st floor (mostly) & baseboards upsatairs in the 4 bedrooms
Should I bite the bullet??
How much more efficient are these puppies. (i realize that it’ll be more efficient, but how much more. We burn about 800gals of oil a winter. how much can I save???)
Replies
I had a lengthy conversation with a local plumber here about Buderus and another brand he mention that escapes me.
He had great things to say. He is a very intelligent man too, he designs and installs alot of radiant heating sytems.
Apparently these boilers make the most use of the flame and the heat by either reflecting it or making it go through an S type chamber rather than running it through the coils and up the flue.
Locally, one of our resident framers here; Deisel Pig, had one installed in his remodel.
I "think" he loves it! He'll be along.
Eric
yourcontractor@aol.com
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
Hey Eric-Dieselpig lives about a mile away from me & the guy who installed his is my neighbor. (we play poker @ his house the 1st Sat of the month) For the amount of money he's lifted off me you's think the boiler would be free!!!I've been to Pig's house and saw his boiler. I might give him a jingle this evening...
For the amount of money he's lifted off me you's think the boiler would be free!!!
Brian might be holding out on you; I know he mentioned something about a "special" deal he got from the plumber!
Be holding a full house.
Ericyourcontractor@aol.com
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
I like it just cuz it's so darn cute......
View ImageView Image
Recko
Does anybody around there sell Toyotomi? I have one. It's a 100,000 btu/hr unit and is about the size of a 2-drawer file cabinet. It's makes about as much noise as a fridge. They claim efficiencies in the 90%+ range.
Though I have only lived with it for a few months, I think I believe that. I can put my hand on the exhaust pipe when it's running, so there's a lot of heat this thing is using that other burners pump out the exhaust pipe.
The people who sold it to me say they don't know what its real world lifespan or maintenance cycle is because they haven't had a burner failure in 7 years. They don't require annual servicing and cleaning.
http://www.toyotomiusa.com/
Ron
Jus wondering here. Did you post this in the TAV or did it get moved here? Seems a lot of posts are getting moved by somebody.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Only got moved cause you replied to it.yourcontractor@aol.com
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
Nuh-uh...it was there, I swear.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
I was actually wondering that too.
.........maybe Dustin's been here; he seems to have that affect on threads.yourcontractor@aol.com
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
LOL
Damn constructed related threads!
In the Tavern none-the-less!
Place is going to hell inna handbasket I tell ya.
Remodeling Contractor with no ties to the Glass City
It was originally posted in the tavern.
Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength. ~~ Eric Hoffer
Now in general disc.
I gotta remember to grab a chair when the music stops.
Or is it guess which walnut shell the thread is under?
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Hey Sphere,Yes, I did originally post it in the Tavern.
Thanks, curiosity satisfied. LOL.
I was just thinkin that some moderater was having fun or a bad day.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
See what happens when you post?? Damn thing moved again!!
You should can that stuf and sell it.yourcontractor@aol.com
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
You could also look into "utica" they have directvent models that are more eff. than the boduris and half the installed cost. Uses only outside are to fire the boiler not heated inside air
Nice unit, small, works nice with radiant and baseboard.
The other boiler is probably a Viessmann. Capco up in Woburn is one of the bigger supply house around and they sell both Buderus and Viessmann. I had a discussion with one of the reps up there and he said they are similar but the Viessmann is designed a little better and the quality of materials and construction is a little better but it costs $200 more. I priced a Viessmann from capco and that priced at $2400 without the electronic controls. The Buderus is about $2200. The good controls are probably about $500 more depending on which one you get. One of the major differences with the Viessmann and the Buderus is the flue temperatures, the Viessmann runs cooler and if you have an external chimney then you'll need a SS chimney liner. The rep at Capco told me his friend put one in earlier this winter and tried to get away without the liner and the condensation was just pouring back down the chimney.
I'll be replacing my boiler this summer and am leaning tolds the Viessmann, I just think it is a little nicer. My close friend is an HVAC installer at one of the larger oil companies, so I'll get the boiler for cost and installed for $0 so I'll send a little extra money on the boiler.
Which ever why you go, make sure you get an indirect for your hot water. Buderus and Viessmann both make nice ones but they cost 2x the SuperStor and even the Viessmann and Buderus reps will tell you they are the best but not worth the money, they tell you to go with the superstor.
See if the electronic controls and outdoor temperature sensors make sense for your oil consumption and how long you'll own the house, etc. Here's a link to explain the Viessmann, the Buderus is similar.
http://www.tjsradiantheat.com/heatsavings.html
Well...
it all depends. your current system may or may not be running at regular efficiency, for one. Also, which Buderus were you quoted? If it was the GB142 w/RC10 control, then yeah, it'll be more efficient, probably by a long shot. If not, it could go either way.
-=Northeast Radiant Technology=-
Radiant Design, Consultation, Parts Supply
http://www.NRTradiant.com
Hi Doug,
Sorry I couldn't be of more help last night when you called and I'm still not sure I can really help you much. Using my house as a barometer for efficiency isn't going to work all that well since the upstairs was "unheated" until early January. Even though it was techinically unheated, it stayed around 58 degrees because of the mass quantities of heat leaking from the first floor up to the second floor so I didn't even bother turning on the thermostat. And we didn't even have an attic stairway installed until early January so the attic was devouring a good deal of oil too. As you can see.... I'm the picture of efficiency myself.
In fact, since we turned the heat on up there, (and I only have Feb. to go by) we've used almost exactly the same amount of oil as we did in Nov, Dec, and Jan. Of course we had some warm stretches too.... tough winter to tell you much.
Aren't you glad you asked me?!?!
Now that I've sufficiently muddied up the waters for you, I'll be over here in the corner giggling.
Sounds like you are sticking with the oil.
Consider this:
http://www.monitorproducts.com/fcx.htm
Currently the only condensing oil boiler sold in the US, as far as I know, but they are popular in Europe, and it is only a matter of time before they migrate this way.
The difficulty with getting the efficiency up with oil boilers is that they typically need to operate above condensing temperatures (about 132 degrees return). That means high supply temps (generally 160 degrees minimum, 180 degrees typical), and an inability to modulate.
Condensing oil boilers are a major breakthrough towards getting the efficiency closer to that of natural gas. Should be good for at least a 92% steady state thermal efficiency (perhaps higher).
High efficiency mean low stack temps- vents through PVC pipe.
I can't speak for the efficiency of a Boderus but several of my customers have them. I do handyman/home improvement work near Stratton Mtn in Vermont, alot of the houses are vacation/2nd homes so they're vacant more than they're occupied. My HVAC guys says the Boderus are bombproof and they like to install them just for the simple reason that they just work. A few bucks more but fewer problems. Not sure if that's a concern for you but may be worth checking out.
-Norm
Thanks all,Yep, I pulled the plug and will be getting a new Buderus boiler installed soon(Boy, I hope it is as cute as Dieselpig's :) )It doesnt' hurt that the state of Mass is offering a $600 tax credit either. Here's the web site:http://www.dor.state.ma.us/help/guides/abate_amend/personal/issues/homeheatingcredit.htm
Hey thank you for that. You should also check with your electric company for their rebate program. I have Nstar for electricity and they offer a $500 credit for the boiler (it was being renewed a month ago, but should be up and running now), and they had a $300 offer for the install of an indirect (diseil's is in the picture, probably a megastor or superstor). You need to get what they can an energy audit first though, they come out and look at your boiler and if your efficiency is below 85 AFUE then they will give you the credit towards something more efficent, Buderus would definitely meet that. I'm sure National Grid and the others offer something similar.