I tried this once a few years back. I figured I’d take a plan from the bidding process through final completion. There was some interest initially, but the broject ended up not getting built. So the thread ended up dying off.
This time I had an interesting plan/project/problem land in my lap. The foundation is already in, so it will certainly be built. It presents some PR challenges, political battles, and is just generally a pain in the keister.
As luck would have it, the house is being built about 5 miles from here. So I can probably get some pictures of things as they go along.
To give you an idea of what I’m dealing with, you’ll find pictures of the first and 2nd floor plans attached, as well as the front qnd rear elevations.
I hope blueeyeddevil doesn’t mind if I borrow him Boogerin’ title, since he sort of copyrighted that name. If any of you are interested I’ll walk you through how this job is going as things happen. If there are no responses, I’ll let it die a slow and quiet death…
Let me get this one posted with the pics, then I’ll get into how I landed this one. Then I’ll get into why I ended up with the job and go from there.
Never speak more clearly than you think. [Jeremy Bernstein]
Replies
yo, Boss!.......I vote you keep us posted as much as you can. I think that would be great!
It's hard to find plans or the people who don't like them that have that open to the second floor space. I think it's a bad idea where the heat rises to the ceiling and the people down below get to watch you parade around when you leave the bedrooms. A house should be where you can walk around less than dressed without worrying about company seeing your cootchie or cootchie catcher.
That's not what you intended for discourse I'm sure. I'd like to see how the construction proceeds and the politics. I wonder if the subjects involved become aware of the thread. I'd like to see this evolve with pics like Mike Smith's "Adverse Conditions" I wonder if they know of the thread?
"I'd like to see this evolve with pics like Mike Smith's "Adverse Conditions" I wonder if they know of the thread?"
I've seen that thread, and intend for this one to be more or less like that. Although since I don't work on this house every day there might be more of a lull between posts and pics.
If you look at the first attachment on this post called "Foundation Plan" you'll see a picture of the foundation plan from the blueprint.
Notice that it has a large number of beams and bearing walls. It's partly basement and partly crawlspace. Also take note of the fact that there's a beam behind the basement to hold up the porch above.
Now look at the attachment called "GC Idea - Foundation + Beams". You'll notice right away that there is basically only one beam running left-to-right. He thought this would be enough.
You'll also notice in the back there are 2 areas (in yellow) that have no support under them. The GC thought we could cantilever 11 7/8" I-joists out 7' to hold up these bays.
On the steel beam to the left you'll notice that there is a 21' span from the foundation to the first post/pier pad. No way would any of our stock beams span that far.
Let me get this posted and I'll work on the proposed solution.
Everyday I beat my own previous record for number of consecutive days I've stayed alive.
The first attachment to this post is called "My Proposal - Foundation + Beams". It shows what I proposed back to the GC.
You'll notice off to the left I added one additional post and pad under the long beam span.
You'll also see that I added 2 beams front-to-back to hold up the great room walls and roof.
In the lower right-hand corner you'll see another beam added to cut the span down so the 11 7/8" I-joists will work.
And I said there had to be footings and posts under the bays in back.
The next attachment is called "My Proposal - Roof Framing". (The plan calls for stick framing)
You'll see that I used a lot of attic trusses. I also added some flush beams where I thought we needed bearing.
I haven't quite figured out how I'm going to get them from the 2nd floor rooms out to the bonus room over the garage. But I'm certain I can come up with something.
The GC came by and reviewed this. He went for evertything but pouring footings under the rear bays. He thought the framer could prop them up temporarily until the concrete guy had time to get in and pour them.
The framer called and asked if he could look over what I came up with. He was also O.K. with everything except the temporary supports for the bays.
So the framer called the GC and said he wouldn't start framing until there was support for the rear bays. And the GC said he'd get them poured.
That more or less brings us up to yesterday. Once they get the other concrete work done I'll meet the framer and we'll get the exact lengths for the beams. And I'll post more info and pics as things progress.
Education makes a people easy to lead, but difficult to drive; easy to govern but impossible to enslave. [Lord Brougham]
looks like it's going to be a nice house
View ImageMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
looks like it's going to be a nice house
Mike, it's good to see that you approve of McMansions now! Thanks for joining the club!
A while back one of our salesmen called me. He said a customer of his was gonna drop a plan off here. The guy was in a big hurry to get a steel beam in place on this plan. The salesman asked me to write up the steel order and then send him the plan.
In this company we have assigned salesmen, and this guy wsn't assigned to give me work. But I figured a steel beam was no big deal. So I said O.K.
I don't know this particular GC very well at all - I had done one house for him in the past. But he sometimes uses a framer who likes working with me, so he walked into my office thinking I was gonna do the whole design from steel to roof.
I loked over the print and he told he that he had changed the beams in the basement. I immediately realized we had a problem on our hands. No way would what he'd done work. Hew had completely disregarded the structural info on the plans and done his own thing. I told the GC that I would try to come up with a solution, and he left.
I called the salesman and described the problems. He said he wanted me to go ahead and do the design work since the job is close to here. I told him I was swamped, and didn't have the time to mess with it.
It ended up being a political battle - He called the owner of the company, I called my boss, the salesman that I normally work with called the owner AND my boss. Everyone tried to ditch this hot potato.
In the end I got stuck with the job and they took away some of my easier work from my normal salesman. It ticked both he and I off, but there was nothing I could do about it.
Let me get this posted, and I'll get into the bearing problems the GC created.
This has got to be a stock plan, I worked on a house in Lake Placid NY that was this exact plan. We did the exterior and interior trim . It was a real fun project , finished with an Adirondack style.
"This has got to be a stock plan..."
Yup - Drawn by Donald Gardner. That guy draws some of the worst prints I've ever seen.
Remember men, you are fighting for the lady's honor, which is probably more than she ever did.
Ron, I'm wondering how much of this kind of work you would do without running it thru a structural engineer - seems like having a truss designer specifying footings is asking for trouble -
not that I doubt your experience or common sense in this circumstance, but any f-u by anybody and the sharks will be looking for a goat (how's that for a mixed metaphor?)
anyway, good luck, and thanks for the thread -
"there's enough for everyone"
I don't know that I have a good answer for that. Keep in mind that I didn't specify what size or depth of footings or pier pads were needed. Just that they WERE needed. Specifing structural beams and trusses is something I do every day. And probably less than 1% of that work is ever reviewed by anyone. The vast majority of plans that I get to work with have no engineering work done on them. No beams, headers, or anything else specified.In the past ~20 years I only know of ONE serious mistake that I made where something was built incorrectly and was installed at a jobsite. When the problemn was discovered the company took care of it. Had we been sued, we have insurance for that. I don't think I can be held personally liable as long as I'm doing this work as an employee of the company.
Q: What's the greatest thing about having a woman for President?
A: We wouldn't have to pay her as much.
Well, I got the I-joist layout done today. A copy should be attached to this post. I didn't put a lot of detail on it. In this case I have the luxury of having the framer stop by the office. He drives by on his way to this jobsite. The I-joists and steel are supposed to be delivered on Monday with a crane. I'll have to see if I can sneak out for a minute and take a couple of pictures.
Learn from your parents' mistakes - - Use birth control.
That house is a Donald Gardner plan. A version of it (badly boogered) got built in my neighborhood, right across the road from a spec I completed and sold a couple years ago.
Before it got built, I quoted the foundation package for a friend I was working with, who was doing Superior Walls precast panelized foundations at the time. The builder went with an Arxx block ICF foundation instead. I have attached a pic of the precast foundation I had in my quotes files.
The roof was stickframed. Here are some pics. The asking price is $795K.
Show us the 3D of the truss arrangement, if you can.
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Edited 7/6/2006 2:52 pm ET by Gene_Davis
It's definitely a Gardner plan. They're one of my least favorite - Right down there with design basics.I can do some 3D views of the trusses once I have them done. But that may be 10 days to 2 weeks - The framer is fairly slow, and doesn't have a lot of guys.This house is on a pretty nice lake lot. I'd venture to guess it will go for $300,000 or so.
It is when we forget ourselves that we do things that are most likely to be remembered.
This house is on a pretty nice lake lot. I'dKeep us updated and definitely take some pictures of the lake.
I'll try to remember to get some pics of the lake if I make it out there Monday.Haven't talked to ya for a while - Hope you and the family are doing well.
Why don't you ever hear about gruntled employees?
doing fine and I hope the same for you and yours!
Today I made it out to the jobsite for a brief visit. The guys had just finished laying out the I-joists and were getting ready to nail 'em off. (That's why some of them look crooked)
Here are a couple of views from the front:
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And another one looking over the first floor at the fountain in the lake behind the house.
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More to follow in the next post.
If God had meant us to have group sex, he'd have given us more organs. [Malcolm Bradbury]
Next up is around back, looking at the walkout wall.
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Then a couple of shots of the basement from either end.
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The framer wants to get the subfloor down, then get together again to go over the roof details. Then we can lay out wall locations, or whatever we need to do to make everything work out.
That will most likely happen sometime Tomorrow or Friday, I'm guessing. Kinda depends on the weather and how much work they get in.
I'll try to take the camera along again and get some more shots as things progress.
A bird in the hand is safer than one overhead.
I really appreciate the photos, Boss. Keep them coming, all the way through frame up and dry in. I would like to see some photos later on, after they have completed the exterior finish.
As I said earlier in another post, I have a little familiarity with this plan, having bid the foundation, and then watching it go up in my neighborhood. I would like to see how it turns out where your guy is building it.
This one here was "simplified" by the builder, and it was sited on a reverse-slope lot, with an uphill out the back, instead of a fallaway, thus the basement has no walkout backside.
The "simplification" involved changing the window group in the front central dormer to a single big square picture window, instead of the arched three-group with bow trim detail above. The bonus room dormers over the garage door were nixed in favor of a single shed dormer, and the upper gable window treatment in the room-over-garage was deleted.
It has remained unsold on the market here, for almost two years after its completion. Asking price is now $795K, down $130K from where it started at $925K. Lot cost was $140K for the builder; the same lot might command $190K today.
This one has also been "simplified" by the builder. Mainly by trying to take shortcuts and make it as cheap as possible. (Like not putting enough beams in)But the framer and I both like doing things right, so we're fighting him. The builder isn't around often enough to interfere. I don't know if I'll be able to follow the thing through to completion. I don't know the homeowner, and don't know the GC all that well. So once the framer is gone I may not try to go back. By doing this thread I was trying to show some of the problems I go through on a daily basis. How the contractors create these situations, and what it takes to solve them.Hopefully I'll accomplish that.
Newspaper ad: "Home wanted for friendly Labrador. Will eat anything -- loves children"
Boss I know you dont like um but this is where a good BI cant do some contractor adjustments.
Tim
In general, I have no problem with building inspectors. Like every other trade I've dealt with, I've run into some real idiots. But the majority of them keep the builders and DIYs from making dumb mistakes. In this case, if there were enforced building codes and a plan review, this would never have happened. Heck, if the contractor had just brought the print to us before he poured the concrete we could have saved him a lot of time and probably some money too.
My therapist wants me to share my true feelings, you freakin' moron.
In this case, if there were enforced building codes and a plan review, this would never have happened.
I can think of several people that could have that on there wall. Yes , some of them here .
Carry on . <G>
Tim
Today I went back out to meet with the framer, measure the deck, and go over everything.
It was miserably hot - About 95°,the dewpoint in the mid 70s, bright sun, and no breeze. I feel sorry for those guys.
We took a lot of measurements and went over the details. I'll be working on the layout this afternoon and tomorrow. Once I get something done I'll post it.
Here are a few pics I shot today. They have some of the walls up, and were chalking lines to get the interior walls laid out.
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This is a shot of all the notes I took. I'm glad no one else has to try to decipher all my dimensions and handwriting.
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Force is all-conquering, but its victories are short-lived. [Abraham Lincoln]
I wouldnt have thought yall needed a termite sheild . Guess I was wrong.
Tim
In the 3rd picture you can see the copper termite shield hanging off on the right side.Guess ya need to clean your glasses.(-:
The cause is strong which has not a multitude, but one strong man behind it. [James Russell Lowell]
75364.38 in reply to 75364.37
I wouldnt have thought yall needed a termite sheild . Guess I was wrong.
I saw it . Clean yurs. <G>
Tim
Well, ya didn't put the apostrophe in "wouldn't". So I didn't notice it.Termite shield is about 50/50 around here. They aren't generally a TERRIBLE problem. But once in a while they do.
Knowledge is free at the library. Just bring your own container
I thought it froze four feet deep in Ill.
Tim
"I thought it froze four feet deep in Ill."
Frost depth here is 32". I don't know about northern Illinois.
Q. How do you know when you're really ugly?
A. Dogs hump your leg with their eyes closed.
I was born in Rockford and I rember that number , mebbe not I cant remember DW birthday.
Tim
42" when I left Chicagoland about 5 years ago.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
It is 24" now. Global warming don't you know.
Oh yeah, how inconvenient.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
I went out and met with the framer again today having done a prelim layout.
The framer asked if I could frame more of the area over the stairwell. A lot of this is political - He want to frame as little as possible, and the GC wants to spend as little as possible on the trusses. Since we didn't bid this job, that leaves me in kind of a spot.
Before anything is built, the job has to be priced, and the GC has to approve the price. So I'm gonna throw the stuff in and see what happens.
Here's the layout with all I have done so far:
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You say "psycho" like it's a bad thing.
I'm assuming the yellow lines are the second floor.
No wait..they cant be.
What are the yellow lines? Where is the stairwell?
Why is there such a large conventional frame layon in the front?
blue
The yellow lines are the 2nd floor. The non-bearing walls are all that color.
There isn't a whole lot of stiock framing in front - As I said previously, I hadn't decided what to do there yet.
Here's a shot of what I have this morning. I'm not done yet, but I do have a lot more accomplished.
The stair location is labeled. I left the roof to be stick framed, as they have no idea what they want the ceiling to look like, and the plan doesn't give any detail.
I'll post more when I'm done with the thing later today.
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PETA: People Eating Tasty Animals.
Any new pics?
jt8
"A tree is known by its fruit; a man by his deeds. A good deed is never lost; he who sows courtesy reaps friendship, and he who plants kindness gathers love." -- Saint Basil
Impatient, huh ???
I'm done with the thing - Just haven't had time to get anything posted until now. The framer is due by here fairly soon to go over everything.
First up - Here's the final layout. I can post a heck of a lot bigger layout, or a PDF file if anyone is that interested. But I hated to go TOO big.
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This is a VRML (Virtual Reality Modelling Language) view from the front left.
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This is a VRML view looking straight in from the right end, so you can see through the attic trusses.
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This view is a closeup of the rear so you can see how the scissored "G" series trusses fit in the vaulted area. This is really impressive when it works right. When it doesn't fit right you look like an idiot. (-:
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Isn't Disneyland a people trap operated by a mouse?
Looks like a typical Detroit area set of trusses Boss!
I was mistaken the blank areas of your earlier posts. I see now that you have actually done some work and the areas I was wondering about have trusses.
Thanks for sharing those plans and 3'ds. Keep up the thread, I'm enjoying it.
blue
Glad ya like the thread. It may be a day or 2 before I post anything else. The order has to go through pricing, and the Lowes store he's buying the stuff through has to issue a P.O., etc. I hope to make it out there to take some pictures when they set the trusses. One thing I forgot to mention - I don't do the pricing, so I'm not certain. But I think this set of trusses will run about $20,000.
Vegetarian: Indian word for lousy hunter.
I'm sorry, Boss, but the house, built with your truss design, won't have nearly the character of the one I can walk through down the street.
The house of which I speak was stickframed. And I am not criticizing you, personally. It is just that this house, done by the designer as a having stickframed ceiling vaults in all of its upper floor areas, doesn't have its inside spaces translate well at all, when its roof structure is trussed.
The scissors-vault trusses, and the attic trusses, will result in lower ceiling heights, up a vault top, than those down below, and the house will feel less spacious, when walking through.
I would like very much, however, to see some inside photos of the finished house, camera aimed up.
There's a lot more to character than high ceilings. The only place the ceiling will be lower is in the great room. This house also has only 4 posts in the basement. I'd like to see you do THAT with a stick framed house. The lask of posts improves the walkout basement a great deal.
What if the hokey pokey really is what it's all about?
Your'e right Boss, character does not depend on hieght. I actually worked in the house that Gene is talking about, and trimmed out those cielings by applying 1x6 t&g pine with edge and valley trim. The finished effect was one of soaring distance rather than the cozy warmness that pine usually has.I think that lowering the plane of the cieling will be not only warmer , but a lot easier to finish.
I was going to ask you about the price tag on those trusses. I was curious. I haven't seen the virtual truss pictures before. Those are very cool.
Good thread Boss keep it up.Can't you hear the violin playing your song.
Boss, Sounds like this project is at a standstill until the trusses arrive?
Month? 6 weeks?
Joe H
"Sounds like this project is at a standstill until the trusses arrive? Month? 6 weeks?"
Today the framer finished up putting the double top plates on and sheathing the walls. (I think)
Right now the trusses are scheduled for a crane all day on Thursday.
But...
A large storm went through the town our main plant is in and knocked out power. The storm was large, and wiped out a heck of a lot of trees and power lines in several towns. (Including St. Louis) The guy I talked to at the main office thought they may not have power for 3 to 5 days.
So...They are planning on shifting a WHOLE bunch of work up to our place. The plant is working 9 hours (2 shifts) on Saturday. Monday they go to 10 hour days.
Since all the big shots keep their pet jobs down there, I figure they're gonna want all THEIR stuff built right away at our plant. And my boogerin' job might get bumped.
I'm hoping the paperwork got to the plant this afternoon before all this happened. And it might get through the saws before they get all their stuff sent up here. That would mean it would likely get built right away.
If I make it into work Saturday I'll check on things and see what's happening. I hope to get some pictures of the plant cutting and building these trusses.
But there's also storm damage around here that needs cleaned up, so I need to stay around here. But I also have a lot to do at work. Truth is I don't know what to do.
So that's the situation at the moment.
A man on a date wonders if he'll get lucky.
The woman already knows. [Monica Piper]
I was thinking you were buried in work & it would take weeks to get them to the top of the pile.
Joe H
"I was thinking you were buried in work & it would take weeks to get them to the top of the pile."
I am, it would, and it did. I know how to play the game well. (-:
As soon as I knew it was an order, I turned in the paperwork to get job numbers. (Doing that gets the main office set up tentative delivery dates a couple of weeks out)
Then I pushed the delivery dates back as I had to - Just a few days at a time. That kept it on the schedule, but off the production manager's radar.
Once I had everything finalized and the P.O. was issued I actually had to push the delivery date UP one day. One of the framer's guys is going on vacation next week, and they want to get everything set Thursday and Friday.
To get it moved up a day I asked the plant manager here if it was O.K., then called the main office and told them to change it. That way I don't get any arguements.
So by playing around with the main office I got the delivery date pretty much where I wanted it. It's all just a big game, and I know how to play along.
But the storm may have been a trump card. I won't really know that until Monday, when we find out of they have power or not.
Welfare's purpose should be to eliminate, as far as possible, the need for its own existence. [Ronald Reagan]
Joe, we can get trusses built and shipped in three days here in MI.
I'd be willing to bet that we could get them done faster if the truss company was pressured by telling them the order was going to a competitor.
blue
Blue, here in southrn Utah things don't move that fast.
3 days isn't even gonna get you a return phone call.
Joe H
How is this for a truss turnaround, I called the salesman this morning he shows at 1:00 pm measures calls the plant and says they will be here tommorrow afternoon.
24 hours and they are onsite, that is sweet. What's wrong with me? I could ask you the exact same thing.
Today the paperwork went out to the plant for this job. I thought you might be interested in seeing what the paperwork looks like.
First up is the "Pick List". One of the guys takes this list and brings the lumber to the saw in the order the pieces are to be cut in.
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This picture is of the actual printed cutting that the sawyer gets. If he's using a manual saw, he has to crank the blades and saw motors around to the correct angles, and move one carriage out to the correct length.
If the saw is a CNC (Computer Numeric Controlled) one, he pulls up a digital version of the cutting and selects which piece he wants to cut. Then the saw automatically adjusts to the lengths and angles needed.
I'll try to get pics of the saw(s) later. For now, here's the printed cutting for a couple of pieces:
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Once the pieces are cut, they're stacked on carts and staged for the production tables. The table leader gets a copy of the cutting, as well as the truss drawing so he can sort the pieces out and set the truss up.
Here's an example of the truss drawing they get:
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Try to relax and enjoy the crisis. [Ashleigh Brilliant]
Boss, this is going along way faster than I thought it would.
Is this normal for your plant, or is thanks to your personal interest?
Joe H
If you look back at post #72 I explained how I played around with the delivery date and the main office to get this delivered as close as possible to when they want it. But this isn't at all unusual, and it's part of what makes my job stressful. The GCs and framers don't really plan ahead. And they don't make decisions until they absolutely HAVE to. Once the jobs are measured the framers are ready for trusses pretty quick. So everyone leans on the truss designers and the plant to get things through the works and built ASAP. Perpetual crisis management.I've learned to say "NO" sometimes, and I can deflect a lot of the pressure by being honest with people. But sometimes I get stuck in a bad spot and get leaned on pretty hard. Most of the time I handle it O.K. Other times I don't.
I'm very good at eating - Can you tell me where they need eaters? [Ashleigh Brilliant]
Boss, if it is so stressful, you ought to do something to make it less so. Stress is just plain not good for your health, and your health is primary. Absolutely.
There are plenty of parts of the country where houses get built per the plans. And that means that trusses are actually engineered and built per the plans.
You need to be in a place like that.
I already have plenty of people telling me how to live and what to do. I don't need any more.
Democracy is a device that insures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. [George Bernard Shaw]
Once the jobs are measured the framers are ready for trusses pretty quick.
Sounds like if you built the trusses to fit the plans there's a good chance they wouldn't fit the actual "as built" framing?
I suppose that would be the truss guy's fault, not the builders?
Joe H
Well, things get interesting sometimes. No one wants to take responsibility for anything. If you blame the truss supplier, you MIGHT get something from them. Doesn't cost anything to try.Some of the framers won't even look at a truss layout until they're built and shipped. That way they figure they don't have any responsibility if something's wrong. The lousy quality of the prints we get is part of the problem too. Nobody wants to pay for a decent set.
Successful people form the habit of doing the things failures don’t like to do
Before I left work today I got a few pictures of the guys cutting lumber for this job.
The saw shown here is a CNC saw. If you want one for your jobsite, they run roughly $300,000.
This first picture is taken from some distance back. It shows the overall saw, and the "live deck". The chains on top of the live deck are powered. So the guy pulling lumber just stacks in on there, and the guy running the saw can engage the electric motor to move the lumber up to the saw.
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This next picture is a little closer view of the saw. You can see how the lumber feeds through the saw on edge and passes by the blades. In this picture the saw is cutting the 2X12 bottom chords for the attic trusses.
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This picture shows one of the saw blades cutting a 2X12 off square. I believe the motor on these blades is 3HP 220 volt 3 phase. The larger bales are 30" diameter and have 5HP motors.
On the right you'll notice a disk brake. If you hit the emergency stop the brakes engage to stop the blades fairly quickly. If the brakes aren't engaged it can take a full mionute for them to stop spinning.
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More in the next post...
the third pic..
now that is Blue's kinda saw...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Needs a handle or something to hang on to.
Joe H
Not to hijack........but i'm gonna for a min
Ever have anyone besides me complain about those finger jointed studs on prefab walls?
It did get me some hats and Cardinals tickets, but basically did no good.
I hope Chuck Norris never potato sacks me!!!!
bstcrpntr --- I hope to grow into this name.
"Ever have anyone besides me complain about those finger jointed studs on prefab walls?"
Some guys really like them, and make a point of asking for them. Other hate them or are suspicious of them.
What is it about them that you don't like?
"It did get me some hats and Cardinals tickets, but basically did no good."
Good for you. I can't hardly get ANYTHING from them. Last time I got some carpenter's pencils I had to steal them from the trunk of someone's car.
The important thing in acting is to be able to laugh and cry. If I have to cry, I think of my sex life.
If I have to laugh, I think of my sex life. [Glenda Jackson]
What is it about them that you don't like?
the FJ's seperate...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Edited 7/25/2006 8:07 pm by IMERC
When they get wet the FJ "slips" making a bowed stud, or worse you lean on one adn it breaks. Makes me nervous to walk walls made of them.
I hope Chuck Norris never potato sacks me!!!!
bstcrpntr --- I hope to grow into this name.
I didn't know that. But I haven't been around them a whole lot. I did take a couple and try to break 'em. They broke easily in the 1.5" dimension, but not the other way. So I figured they were O.K.
Diplomacy is the art of saying "Nice doggy" until you can find a rock.
They claim that compression wise they are stronger taan a nominal 2x4. I can accept that at face value from a salesman. But I will never see them on a job I am on again simply because of the problems drywalling, and the studs I didn't catch caused problems in all the cabinet rooms.
I have used other prefab stuff from you guys and have been very happy as a whole, you provide an excellent product. I have always had my questions answered quickly and with good detail from your staff. Your company is head and shoulders above Ok**.I hope Chuck Norris never potato sacks me!!!!
bstcrpntr --- I hope to grow into this name.
"They claim that compression wise they are stronger than a nominal 2x4."
I have no idea if that's true. But I'm suspicious about it.
It seems to me like they should make good studs since they're finger jointed - Each one shoud be straighter, since any bowed piece is only a foot long.
"I have used other prefab stuff from you guys and have been very happy as a whole, you provide an excellent product."
Really? I've had crappy luck with our wall panels. I quit selling them after a couple of years because I was getting lousy service from them. (at St. Rose)
I always try to give good service to customers. If I can't do that I don't like it. And since wall panels are out of my control I was pretty powerless to do anything.
I smile because I have no idea what's going on.
A few minutes ago they came in and told me they had one of the attic trusses set up. Unfortunately it
wasn't one of the big ones, and it wasn't on one of the big presses. But I took a few shots anyway. These are the trusses for the garage.
This press is REALLY old. Probably one of the worst truss machines ever built, IMHO. There's a hydraulic
cylinder and a big plate hanging down underneath it. (The blue thingy) You move it around with a joystick and stop
at each joint to press the plate in.
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In this picture you can see a guy putting the plates in place. They put the plate on top and tack the
corners. Then they pry the boards up with a straight claw hammer and slide the plate underneath.
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This shot is of one of the heel joints. You can see the heel joint to the right that's ready to go. On the left is the BC for the next truss. They put it upside down and tack a plate on it. They'lll press it as they go around the truss so they don't have to slide the plate underneath next time.
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Here's a shot of the press at the heel. I believe this press has a 5" cylinder in it, and can press something like 35,000#.
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They're supposed to have one of the big attics set up soon one one of the main tables. I'll get some shots of that if I can.
I got some shots of one of the bugger attic trusses on one of our main production lines a little while ago.
These are probaby what the majority of truss manufacturing tables look like now. The bottom few inches are steel, and there's a "base line" established. The rest of the table is self-healing plastic. The guys nail blocks on the table to hold the shape of the truss so each one is consistent.
In these first 2 pics you'll see a mobile roller press. Inside the cover is an 18" diameter roller. The roller passes over the truss plates and presses them in partway.
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Here's a little closer view of the bottom of the press. The rollers basically ride on a piece of railroad track that's bolted to the floor.
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More in a few minutes...
After the roller passes over the truss, the plates look kinda like this. They're pressed abut half or 2/3 of the way in.
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Here's the truss just after it was pressed.
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Inside the tables are some ejection rollers that pop up with air cylinders. They have skate wheels on them to help pass the truss over to the conveyor.
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Here's the truss after it's been pulled over onto the conveyor. Off to the left, note the window and the slot in the wall.
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Outside shots are next.
Did the guys in the plant not want their pics online, is that why you've whited their faces out?
jt8
"A tree is known by its fruit; a man by his deeds. A good deed is never lost; he who sows courtesy reaps friendship, and he who plants kindness gathers love." -- Saint Basil
"Did the guys in the plant not want their pics online, is that why you've whited their faces out?"
I did it as a courtesy. It just seemed like a good idea.
I don't know why people are surprised that France won't help us get Saddam out of Iraq. After all, France wouldn't help us get the Germans out of France! [Jay Leno]
The reason for the slot in the wall is so the truss can pass through to go outside and go through the finish roller. (The big blue thingy)
Inside the finish roller is a pair of 24" diameter rollers, kinda like an old wringer washer. This makes sure the plates are seated 100% of the way into the wood.
Then the truss passes onto an outside conveyor to be stacked by the big ugly guy you see there.
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Sometimes as the truss is handled and goes over the conveyor a plate falls off. Here you see a guy tacking one back on the underside of the truss. Then it will be fed backwards through the finish roller, and then back out again.
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Here you see the finished truss outside waiting to be stacked. They make sophisticated stackers that do this automatically. But this company doesn't use them. God only knows why.
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That's all I have now. The trusses will likely be finished up on the night shift. They'll be loaded first thing in the morning, and are supposed to be on site at 7am. I hope to make it out there to take some pictures.
why the void???
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Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
That's just how that part of the truss fits together.
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Please don't ask me what the score is, I'm not even sure what the game is. [Ashleigh Brilliant]
got it....
seems like a weak point though....Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"seems like a weak point though...."
I don't think so. That's one hell of a plate there.
The important thing in acting is to be able to laugh and cry. If I have to cry, I think of my sex life.
If I have to laugh, I think of my sex life. [Glenda Jackson]
Interesting thread Boss. Thanks.
blue
Glad you're still following along. I wasn't sure if I should include the parts about the trusses being built. But then I figured most people never see a truss plant and have no idea how they're built. I hope they get the trusses set today. There's rain in the area, so who knows.They have a heck of a nice crane lined up, and I hope to get some shots of that too.
Take Courage! Whatever you decide to do, it will probably be the wrong thing. [Ashleigh Brilliant]
Boss....
got more???Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
They're supposed to start setting the trusses at 7AM. It's now 6AM and we haven't sent the trusses out yet. (Night shift finished 'em up)Since rain is threatening, I don't know how things will go. And I don't know just exactly when I can get out there to get some pictures.But once way or another I'll get some more and post 'em. It just may not be for a while.
Great men undertake great things because they are great; fools, because they think them easy. [Luc De Vauvenargues]
you got me interested in the manufacturing side of trusses... ...
so more is okay with me...
remember when I said 2by culls went into trusses...
the truss plant here does just that... I was serious...
you guys seem to use #2 or better... True...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
There are standards for what can and can't be used in trusses. I can't quote them offhand, but I doubt any truss plant deliberately uses "culls". The lowest grade we use is 2X4 SPF stud grade. It's used in webs only.Next up would be SPF #1/#2 which is in the chords. Going up from there we have SUP #2, SPF MSR 2100, and SYP DSS. In 2X6 we carry SPF MSR 2100 and SYP DSS. In the larger sizes we have either SYP DSS or SYP MSR 2250.
No, the world isn't about to end. However, if I'm wrong I'll apologize afterwards.
Thanks, Boss, for informing the doubting Thomases who think trusses are made with downgraded lumber. Us engineers would not allow that.
Now give us a little lesson in the meaning of MSR (machine stress rated.)
While you are at it, tell us what the design loading is for those upstairs rooms that will have their floors bear on the bottom chords of the "attic" trusses, spaced at 24".
What would you recommend as floor sheathing?
"Now give us a little lesson in the meaning of MSR (machine stress rated.)"
Like you said - MSR means "Machine Stress Rated". Here's a breif exlpanation from the southern pine council website:
"Machine Stress Rated (MSR) lumber is lumber that has been evaluated by mechanical stress rating equipment. MSR lumber is distinguished from visually stress graded lumber in that each piece is non-destructively tested. "
Basically they bend the lumber a certain amount and measure the force it takes to bend it. A design value is assigned to the lumber based on that.
Just to confuse things a bit more, there's also MEL lumber, or "Machine Evaluated Lumber". Here's an explanation of it, again taken from the southern pine council website:
"...material evaluated by calibrated mechanical grading equipment which measures certain properties and sorts the lumber into various strength classifications."
Basically they have machines which take X-rays of the lumber and come up with a design value for it based on the composite of the X-rays.
"While you are at it, tell us what the design loading is for those upstairs rooms that will have their floors bear on the bottom chords of the "attic" trusses"
The floors don't "bear on the bottom chords of the attic trusses" - The bottom chords are PART of the attic trusses.
The floor live load is just like the live load of any other residence I've done - 40 PSF. We also add dead loads on the walls, floor, and ceiling members.
"What would you recommend as floor sheathing?"
I've never seen anything but 3/4" T&G used.
My play was a complete success. The audience was a failure. [Ashleigh Brilliant]
I snuck out to the jobsite on my lunch hour to see how things were going. Unfortunately they hadn't gotten very far.
I stopeed and took this first shot as I was driving up to the jobsite. I thought it looked impressive with the crane sticking up in the air. (It's a real sweet crane, too)
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This shot is of the wierd scissor trusses over the great room. It's not a great shot, but it's the best one I got.
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For some reason the rest of the pics didn't turn out well. I plan to try to get out there about the time they wrap up and get some more shots.
> But then I figured most people never see a truss plant and have no idea how they're built.
Yes, that's exactly why this would make a great article for FHB. Even better, a series of articles following the job from plans to sheathing.
-- J.S.
I've talked to 4 dfferent people at different times about doing an article. We exchange emails for a while, then it gets dropped. Framers, GCs, and other bilding pros would likely be intereted in an article about trusses. But FHB wants stuff that appeals to HOs too. That's hard to do.I also have limited time and interest in trying to get one together. It's no really worth the time for what they pay for the articles.
Here at First National Bank, you're not just a number - you're two numbers, a dash, three more numbers, another dash, and another number.
When I left work yesterday I stopped by the jobsite to see how things were going. Thre trusses were set, and the crane and framers were gone. I took a few shots, but didn't have time to get them posted last night.
Since there isn't anything real specific I wanted to point out on most of the pictures, I didn't bother posting most of them "inline". They'll all just be attachments at the end of the post.
This one was one that I DID want to make a point of posting and explaining, just in case any of you hadn't seen this or didn't know what it meant.
Most of the truss plants I've worked at have painted the overhangs on one end of the trusses. There's a good reason for this.
When trusses are jigged, they're never perfect. One side of the top chord may be crowned up a hair, the peak could be a little off center, etc.
If the trusses are off a little, and aren't all set the same way, that can cause problems. So the overhangs are typically painted so the framer can set them all the same way they came out of the jig. It's a simple but effective trick.
Here's a shot of the painted tails on this job so you can see what I mean:
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Im not sure how soon I'll be out at the job again. I'd like to get pics as they set the cap trusses, and maybe some shots of anything else that looks interesting. But it may be the first of the week.
Boss, I wish out truss companies would spray one side or the other.
In your picture it appears that the first truss is lacking paint. I think the framers goofed!
blue
The paint is there - It's just on the other side of the overhang and on the B.C.
I saw a bank that said if offered 24 Hour Banking but I didn't go in. I didn't have that much time.
I made a trip back out Monday afternoon. But I haven't had time to get the camera and the cable together in the same place and get the pics transferred over.
The framer decided to work on putting the 2nd floor deck down before they messed with the caps or roof sheathing. They're short handed this week, and I think that also figured into it.
Here's a pic looking across the "catwalk" from one side of the 2nd floor to the other.
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This one is the walkway between the right half of the 2nd floor and the bonus room over the garage.
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Finally, this is the mid chord bearing where some of the attics hang on an LVL beam near ther garage. I couldnm't make the trusses stretch out enough to hit the angled walls. Bearing on the LVLs this way makes 'em easy to set.
At the lower right-hand corner of the pic, you'll see the trimmable bottom chord on truss "D2". I did that to make it a little bit adjustable since it hit on an angled wall.
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How often do you go on jobs? I have only seen our rep once. other than that it is all on the phone. Never hear from them after trusses are delivered.I hope Chuck Norris never potato sacks me!!!!
bstcrpntr --- I hope to grow into this name.
Actually, I virtually never get to go to jobsites after the trusses are set. I've only gone to this one multiple times because it's close, unusual, and I was trying to document the proccess of design and installation.
Every morning is the dawn of a new error.
Boss,
We do 125 psf for hay storage.
You're hay must absorb all that "sunshine loading" LOL:)
I missread your post. I was thinking psf, not pcf.
Edited 8/3/2006 7:51 am ET by MiCrazy
Who is "we"? I haven't seen enough of your posts to have any clue who you are or what you do. I don't think 125 PSF is too far out of line, although it's still pretty high. The engineers we used multiply the 20# per cubic foot by the height of the room. So an 8' tall attic room would have a 160 PSF live load.
Q: How do you know you're leading a really pathetic life?
A: When a nymphomaniac tells you: "Let's just be friends."
"We" is the truss company I work for.
I had to edit my post. I thought I read you only added 20 psf for hay.
After I reread it, I see it's pcf.
Dang, I didn't realize another truss geek was hanging around here. I guess I'm gonna have to watch what I say about trusses now. (-:No comments on this job? Do you get stuff like this too? (2 story houses without enough bearing, etc.)
When a man marries a woman, they become one; but the trouble starts when they try to decide which one.
Ya, we get stuff like this.
Looks like you cleaned it up rather well.
Edited 8/3/2006 10:29 am ET by MiCrazy
Thanks - I take that as pretty high praise, coming from another truss guy.(-:
Bumpersticker: MAKE LOVE NOT WAR - see driver for details.
Today I stopped by the jobsite to see how they were doing. I'm short on time, so I'm not gonna post the pics inline. They have a lot of plywood on the front of the house, and are still working on other framing. The one called "pond view" gives you some idea what the view will look like from the 2nd floor.
Fight crime, shoot back.
keep us posted
I think I am going to start a thread like this when I get the One I am working on "out of the ground"I hope Chuck Norris never potato sacks me!!!!
bstcrpntr --- I hope to grow into this name.
were the plates pressed the rest of the way in...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"were the plates pressed the rest of the way in..."
I'm not sure what you're asking.
The portable roller presses them in partway. The 2nd roller finishes the job.
Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened. [Winston Churchill]
my bad...
got more to show Boss.... good stuff.....
note to self... ya gotta read slower...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Boss this is about those trusses in the pictures, the attics with the leanto looking deal. I got a call today from a person who boards horses and wants a new barn.
They want storage for hay and leanto's for the horses.
My question to you is would it possible to store hay in the attic trusses? Maybe 12" OC. My plan is to put sliding barn doors on each end of the attics for access.
Possible barn size is 20Wx40L and the attics running the 20 foot. And 12 foot leato roofs off each side.
Thanks for any advice on this one.What's wrong with me? I could ask you the exact same thing.
I've done trusses for pole barns with hay storage before. I doubt you'd have to go 12" O.C.The engineers we use want us to design attics for 20# per CUBIC foot for hay storage. I've argued 'till I'm blue in the face that the 20# number is ridiculous. A typical small bale is about 7 cubic feet. Using their figure a bale would weigh 140#, which is ridiculous. I've never seen a bale much over half that.So if you go talk to a truss company, I'd just tell 'em you want the floor designed for a 80 or 100 PSF live load. That oughta cover just about anything.If you want me to run some preliminary drawings for ya, post back or email me and I'll try to mess with something Monday.
It is easier to get older than it is to get wiser.
If you have some free time that would be great. It was a thought that came to me after I saw the pictures of the truss factory.
You are a perfect person to talk to about this, you design trusses and you farm. You know how much a bale of hay weighs and how to design a truss for it.
The customer put 600 bales in their old post and beam barn and broke some floor joists resulting in the call to me for a new barn. The old one is in to bad of shape to repair.
Thank you for the advice Boss. I'll talk to my truss rep as well this week. What's wrong with me? I could ask you the exact same thing.
Boss, if the builder is going to do this thing to look like the plans, there will be two rearward-looking dormers on the main roof, and (if I recall correctly) two more on the garage roof.
Will those be built atop the trussed roof with its deck on? I am curious about the windows in these dormers . . . will they be just decorative, with no living space behind? I wonder what you do with windows of this type. Are they glazed with glass you cannot see through?
If there is a way you can get by the job to show roof building in progress, and then later when finished, we would like to see some photos.
Does the gable endwall truss at the end of the garage allow for the window opening that is there, per plans?
"if the builder is going to do this thing to look like the plans, there will be two rearward-looking dormers on the main roof, and (if I recall correctly) two more on the garage roof."
You're right about the dormers. In this case they're making them all false.
I tried to convince the guy to make the ones on the back of the house functional. They're both in bedrooms, and would overlook the lake. But no luck.
"Does the gable endwall truss at the end of the garage allow for the window opening that is there, per plans?"
If they end up putting a window in they'll have to cut the window in. I just did a standard gable there.
"If there is a way you can get by the job to show roof building in progress, and then later when finished, we would like to see some photos."
I'll probably get pics of the trusses in place, but that may be it. I don't know the HO at all, and don't know the GC very well. I would have to know someone pretty well before I would ask them if I could take pics of the finished house.
If it wasn't for muscle spasms, I wouldn't get any exercise at all.
This first picture shows the touch screen that they use to control the saw. The computer is encased in the cabinet to keep dust out of it. The touch screen is more reliable in a shop environment than a keyboard and mouse.
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This is a bunch of the lumber for this job on one of the carts they use. The rubber tires allow the guys to push them around easily in the shop.
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I took one shot of this older saw. It has blades on both ends just like the CNC saw. But everything is done manually.
Since this saw takes a lot of time to set up, we use it for longer runs of simpler trusses. We also use it as a backup when the other saw is down.
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That's it for now. Tomorrow I'll try to get some pictures when they're actually building the trusses.
is there a reason for cutting the material in the veticle posistion over cutting the board laid flat...
what do you guys do with all those drops..Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"is there a reason for cutting the material in the veticle posistion over cutting the board laid flat."
It was just by chance that they were cutting pieces that were square on both ends when I was out there. Most of the time the bottom chords, top chords, and webs have one or more angles on each end. You couldn't do those laid flat.
"what do you guys do with all those drops."
There's a guy who pulls 2X4 and 2X6 scraps out of the waste conveyer if they're over a foot long. They're stacked on pallets and sent to the main plant, where they're run through a finger joint machine to make finger jointed lumber.
Other lumber cutoffs are hauled down in a dump trailer. It's ground up and sold for landscape mulch.
Getting married for sex is like buying a 747 for the free peanuts. [Jeff Foxworthy]
Ron, do you use the finger jointed material in house, or sell it?
If you sell it, what is it sold as? Is it graded or meet some standard?
What's it sound like out in the plant?
Joe H
"do you use the finger jointed material in house, or sell it?"
A lot of it is cut into 92 5/8" studs. We can cut lumber to order at any length. But mostly it's just studs.
A lady is one who never shows her underwear unintentionally. [Lillian Day]
In the Alpine Saw Closeup pic, it looks as though the timber is centered between the saws. Is an equal chunk cut from each end for some reason like removing checking? In terms of wastage, wouldn't it make sense to measure from one end instead of from the middle to your cuts?If that's a dumb question, 'splain it to me like i'm six years old, s'il vous plait.
"In the Alpine Saw Closeup pic, it looks as though the timber is centered between the saws. Is an equal chunk cut from each end for some reason like removing checking? In terms of wastage, wouldn't it make sense to measure from one end instead of from the middle to your cuts?"
Depends on the board. If they're trying to cut a 12' bottom chord from a 12' board, the stop on the left end has to be pretty well lined up with the left saw blade.
If the board is a lot longer than the necessary piece it doesn't really matter. In this case I think they were cutting a 10' 6" BC from a 12' board.
The waste in this case would be ground up for mulch, so the number of waste pieces doesn't matter.
BTW - This saw is different from the one you saw when you were here. We had a lot of trouble with it, so we got a different brand.
Do bulldogs get flat noses from chasing parked cars?
I was thinking of those one-foot off-cuts, but i understant now you don't save any but the stud-width pieces.
Wow, those VRML views are great. On our jobs, it'd fun to see those before the trusses get delivered so we could envision better how the truss set is going to go.Thanks for the thread.
Actually, anyone can look at these VRML files. You have to download and install the Cortona VRML Client. You can get it at:http://www.parallelgraphics.com/products/cortona/I think most truss suppliers now have the capability to save truss layouts in this format. But I don't know that for sure. If you like this one, it would be worth asking your truss supplier about.You can turn the roof plane and walls on or off, or even just shade them in partially. You can turn the 3D model around with your mouse, and view it from any angle. You can even set up a "fly through" where your viewpoint sorta flies through the house like a ..........house fly.I attached the VRML file for this layout, if any of you want to try it out.
Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just. [Thomas Jefferson]
Boss - having visited your biz establishment and gotten the grand tour...I'm enjoying this thread and loved the VRML files ya posted (thank God I'm on cable modem!)!DUM SPIRO SPERO: "While I breathe I hope"
BTW - Any damage from the storms last night?We had a lot of trees down and stuff like that. Probably a semi-load of trees and branches down at the historical society. Some friends lost power and/or had they electrical service ripped off their houses. And some damage to the corn crop. Fortunately nothing life threatening.
Is it possible to be a closet claustrophobic?
BTW - Any damage from the storms last night?
Nope. A stoplight got knocked down at the intersection near where I'm living. It had only been up since March when it got clobered by the tornado. They put in an LED one. Even though it got clobbered last night and was laying in pieces on the pavement....the lights still worked on it. And a tree got knocked down on the road back to my place, but you could drive around it.
Meanwhile, the project house never gets a scratch.
jt8
"A tree is known by its fruit; a man by his deeds. A good deed is never lost; he who sows courtesy reaps friendship, and he who plants kindness gathers love." -- Saint Basil
I wouldnt have thought yall needed a termite sheild . Guess I was wrong.
Depends on whether you want to invite the little buggers in or not. Although it probably isn't as bad as some of those southern states.
I'm about 45 min north of Boss and my current project house had termite damage. They chewed their way though a 49' main beam, about 25' of sill, around 12' of rim joist, 35 2x10x16 joists, large patches of subfloor, various wall studs, probably 30% of the drywall (paper)..and a few other spots I'm forgetting.
On the list of things you don't want to hear from the exterminator: "Wow, let me get a picture of that!"jt8
"A tree is known by its fruit; a man by his deeds. A good deed is never lost; he who sows courtesy reaps friendship, and he who plants kindness gathers love." -- Saint Basil
Those pictures look pretty typical. I've had some sole plates that I demoed completely using only the shop vac. There was one place in the crawlspace where I hit my head on a joist, and it didn't hurt. ;-)
-- J.S.
"I'm about 45 min north of Boss"
Oh? then howzabout updating your profile...!...unless ya just LIKE confusing folks...DUM SPIRO SPERO: "While I breathe I hope"
Well technically, the "east" is correct. Just happens to be NORTH east ;)
Not much to see 45 min straight east of BH unless you like corn fields. But take that same 45 mins and add a bit of 'north' to it and you would be watching the National High school rodeo finals this week. Sure are a lot of dualies in town this week.
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jt8
"A tree is known by its fruit; a man by his deeds. A good deed is never lost; he who sows courtesy reaps friendship, and he who plants kindness gathers love." -- Saint Basil
Well I'll "wave" towards that "NORTH east" when I drive on by in a couple/few weeks then!DUM SPIRO SPERO: "While I breathe I hope"
Well, it looks like the main plant has power this morning. So everything should be on schedule for delivering the trusses on Thursday. I have my digital camera with me, and still plan to get some pics of the trusses as they're being built.
Q: What does a blonde say after sex?
A:Are all you guys on the same team?
> It has remained unsold on the market here, ....
Where's "here"? The pictures look rural, and the prices sound high.
-- J.S.
It is in Lake Placid, NY. Here is the lake, all you do is go down by the mailboxes at the bottom of the hill, and there she is.
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Couldn't you just cut the cantalevered span down to around 3ft. on the bays and integrate these spaces as sheds/storage spaces?
The design of the house isn't up to me. I'm just furnishing the structural materials and design.
Heck is where people go that don't believe in gosh.
OK, Boss, where are you on this project?
Has anybody told this builder-customer to look at the plans more than for just a minute, and realize that the roof must be stick framed? I don't see how an engineered truss package can generate the inside vaults necessary to realize the space.
But if you have done it, we are anxious to see your solutions.
"OK, Boss, where are you on this project?"
As I said earlier, the I-joist package and the steel beams go out Monday. I may or may not have time to swing by and get some pics.
"Has anybody told this builder-customer to look at the plans more than for just a minute, and realize that the roof must be stick framed?"
Like hell is has to be stick framed. I already pitched a solution to the builder, and he went along with it. In an earlier post I showed my proposed solution. I realize it's not really detailed yet. I'll post details as I go along.
"I don't see how an engineered truss package can generate the inside vaults necessary to realize the space."
You haven't worked with me yet. (-:
It will all fall together given some time. Be patient.
"But if you have done it, we are anxious to see your solutions."
I don't work on the house every day - I just work on it as I have to and when they're ready for more stuff. I'm absolutely swamped with work.
Once they get the first floor deck done we plan to meet again and get everything finalized for the roof system. Then I'll post details of it, and try to get out there to take some pics of the roof system.
I should also be able to show some 3D views of the trusses from the truss design program.
If you don't like the news, go out and make some of your own.
Once they get the first floor deck done we plan to meet again and get everything finalized for the roof system. Then I'll post details of it, and try to get out there to take some pics of the roof system
Boss, I find that to be an interesting difference between how we frame our houses here and how your local framers frame theirs.
Around here, most framers will not start a house unless the roof trusses are onsight. I myself made that a mandatory requirement for me to take a job. Nowadays, because of the way I do the onsite prefabrication, I don't need the trusses on site, but I will need the specs in my hands before I can start. In most cases, I'll need the exact dimensions of the garage trusses, including the span, pitch and heel height within two hours of when I start because I'll be nailing the overhangs up for that wall, that first morning.
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I think the differences are interesting too. Around here everybody wants the foundations measured before the trusses are built. The foundation guys seem to like dealing in feet instead of inches, so foundations are routinely off. They also continually make changes on the fly - Changing pitches, vaulted ceilings, etc. So building things ahead of time would never work. No one wants to make decisions that far ahead of time.Heck, the prints are often wrong, and we can't get answers about what they want. I have a print on my desk now with that problem. The trusses are scheduled for delivery next Wednesday. But the elevation is wrong, and they can't decide what to do. We'll probably get the answer at the last possible second, and will have to rush everything through to try to make the delivery date..To some degree this "measure + build" method works well - It helps prevent mistakes and problems. The downside is that everything is constantly in crisis mode. They can often frame up a house in less than a week, and we're 2 weeks out. So everybody's in a panic, and it's crisis management day after day. It really gets tiresome.
France has neither winter nor summer nor morals. [Mark Twain]
Around here everybody wants the foundations measured before the trusses are built. The foundation guys seem to like dealing in feet instead of inches, so foundations are routinely off.
Our foundations are usually within inches of where it calls for on the plans. A couple of inches is rarely a problem for trusses. We just hang the heel in or out an inch and adjust the theoretical heel heights when we are calculating the heights of our pinework.
They also continually make changes on the fly - Changing pitches, vaulted ceilings, etc. So building things ahead of time would never work. No one wants to make decisions that far ahead of time.
That's something that we don't normally have to deal with. Most of the people we work for are builders who make their decisions before the plans go to bid and then stick to the plans. Changing pitches after the fact would cost somebody thousands and there normally isn't any reason for it. I have had to retrofit vaulted ceilings inside houses, but those normally occur because a superintendent gave the truss guys the wrong floor plan.
The downside is that everything is constantly in crisis mode. They can often frame up a house in less than a week, and we're 2 weeks out. So everybody's in a panic, and it's crisis management day after day. It really gets tiresome
I would not like to be operating in crisis mode. That in itself is the number one reason why our production and income drops.
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I don't like the "crisis mode" either. But trying to get people to change the way they do things is all but impossible. It doesn't help that people seem to think our design software does things fast, easy, and automatically. And it only takes a few minutes for our automated equipment to make their trusses. (None of that is the case)It also doesn't help that the samesmen and owners have a hard time saying "NO" when the customers want something unreasonable.Sometimes I have to dig my heels in and tell 'em I just can't get everything done. Doesn't make me popular, but it sometimes gets them to back off a bit. (for a while)
The smallest good deed is greater that the grandest of good intentions
Boss, I don't envy you or your position. You are often caught between a rock and a hard place.
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