Replies

1. 
   rez | Jun 20, 2005 11:27pm | #1

   bump

    

    

   A person with no sense of humor about themselves is fullashid
   
   

    

2. 
   BillBrennen | Jun 20, 2005 11:56pm | #2

   Paul,

   Probably they won't react chemically to one another. The borates are water soluble crystals, not unlike salt. The wood hardener is a liquid plastic that will not dissolve the borates. However, the borates may create micro channels in the resin-soaked wood that permits the leaching effect of continual wetting to remove the borates. But, you wouldn't use borates anyhow, if you knew it was going to get wet, right?

   Actually, the borates only inhibit the growth of the fungi. So does dryness. Neither one "eliminates" the fungi. They are everywhere!

   My 2 cents.

   Bill

3. 
   billyg | Jun 21, 2005 05:44am | #3

   I recall that Abatron says that the borates don't affect the properties of their epoxy hardener and filler, but I can't find it on their website now.  I've repaired rotted columns by cutting out the damaged portions, treating with Boracare, and then using the Abatron consolidant and epoxy.  I had no trouble with bonding the epoxy over the Boracare.

   http://www.abatron.com

   Billy

   
   

   ---

   Edited 6/20/2005 10:53 pm ET by Billy

4. 
   Mongo | Jun 21, 2005 06:05am | #4

   Boracare is a regular thing here.

   I use it more as a preventative measure during framing than as a follow-up to a problem though.

1. 
   Luka | Jun 21, 2005 06:26am | #5

   100 dollars a gallon !Ouch.Has anyone just used boraxo ?(Obviously not where you would intend to paint, or in this case, epoxy, of course.)

   Are we there yet ?

1. 
   Mongo | Jun 21, 2005 04:23pm | #6

   Boracare and Absynth over ice.

   Refreshing on a hot summer day.

   Hey, I enjoyed your electric motor thread. Nice job troubleshooting and getting it running.

1. 
   Luka | Jun 21, 2005 10:43pm | #8

   Absynthe and Boracare...Probably of equal value to your system, too. LOL=0)

   Are we there yet ?

2. 
   csnow | Jun 21, 2005 04:56pm | #7

   You can make your own.

   It's Borax + Boric Acid + Ethylene Glycol

   See homebrews at these links:

   http://www.angelfire.com/nc3/davecarnell/rot.html

   http://alsnetbiz.com/homeimprovement/homemade.html

   I have never used these formulas, but I have used straight ethylene glycol and an ethylene glycol + Borax mixture.

   After messing around with glycol and borax, my experience is that it is better to not pre-treat before epoxy.  I think the epoxy absorbs better without anything in the way.  Plus, if you pre-treat with these solutions, you must re-dry the material before the epoxy.  Dryness is the key to success with epoxy.  If you were using just a filler, pre-treating would make sense.

    

1. 
   Luka | Jun 21, 2005 10:54pm | #9

   Fantastic !I love homebrewed solutions like this. Nothing ticks my tock better !A quote from your first link... (Caps are his.)>>Glycol by itself has one big advantage over solutions of borates in either water or glycol. Glycol penetrates rapidly through all paint, varnish, and oil finishes (except epoxy and polyurethanes) without lifting or damaging those finishes in any way. You can treat all of the wood of your boat without removing any finish. The dyes in glycol antifreeze are so weak that they do not discolor even white woods. Once bare wood has been treated with glycol or the borate solutions and become dry to the touch it can be finished or glued. IN THE YEARS SINCE I FIRST WROTE THIS ARTICLE, MY EXPERIENCE HAS BEEN THAT GLYCOL BY ITSELF IS GENERALLY THE BEST TREATMENT FOR KILLING ROT. Gougeon's research has shown that borate solutions weaken epoxy joints in the treated wood. If a borate solution leaves white residues on the surface, it will have to be washed off with water and the surface allowed to dry.<<I am convinced enough by just this one page of anecdotal evidence to give just the anti-freeze a try, if I can't find the borax and boric acid in good/cheap enough quantities.Everyone keeps saying borax bought at the grocery store. Does that mean that Boraxo is all borax, no detergents or anything else ?...Subtract the personal anecdotes, and add a more professional way of presenting the ingedients, etc... and at least half of the second link is almost word for word what the first was. Is that the same guy, or is it plaguerism ?

   Are we there yet ?

1. 
   csnow | Jun 22, 2005 04:26pm | #11

   I think "Boraxo" is a soap/borax blend.

   Look for the "50 Mule team" stuff.

2. 
   Luka | Jun 22, 2005 10:48pm | #12

   I've got a box of the 20 mule team stuff. Is that enough mules ??; )Green box. Yellow front and back.Since it says laundry booster I wondered if it had soap in it.Says it contains no phosphates or chlorine. But that doesn't rule out detergent.

   Are we there yet ?

3. 
   csnow | Jun 23, 2005 05:08pm | #13

   That's the stuff.  Kills cockroaches and ants too.  The mules step on them.

4. 
   Luka | Jun 23, 2005 09:46pm | #16

   I'm still wondering how they fit all those mules in that little box.

   Are we there yet ?

2. 
   BillBrennen | Jun 22, 2005 02:11am | #10

   Thanks for the links. Looks like solid information; I learned something new.Bill

5. 
   BruceM16 | Jun 23, 2005 06:19pm | #14

   Borate (the salt of Boric Acid), as it was explained to me by an entomologist, kills by finding its way into the digestive tract of insects, usually from the insects self-grooming. It seems the crystals can be very small and tend to stick to the oily exoskelaton of the insect. I didn't ask, but I cannot see how this would apply to fungi.

   Fortunately, boric acid is a weak acid and doesn't seem to bother humans and animals. In fact, your eye doctor rinses your eyes with a boric acid solution.

   I bought a 5 gallon plastic bucket of the borate salt from a local exterminating company for about $105.  I dissolved it in warm water at a rate, as I recall, of 2 cups per gallon. I thoroughly sprayed all stud bays and joist spaces before insulation.

   Haven't seem any little creapy bugs in the house since.

   BruceM

1. 
   Luka | Jun 23, 2005 09:44pm | #15

   I am looking at doing just that to a building very soon.I do think I will probably go the whole borates, borox, anti-freeze route, though.I would have gone with the boracare if it were cheap enough. I am going to check out the cost of the borates at the drugstore. If it is 100 dollars or more, as you had to pay, I thinkI'll just cut the borates out.It's possible it's the anti-freeze and/or borax that keeps the fungus at bay.Fungus and mildew are as big a problem here as the insects.

   Are we there yet ?