I knew things were tight but I didn’t know they were this tight. Friday rolled around and the boss says he needs a few extra days before he can pay me. This has never happened before but from my point of view payroll is non-negotiable. Payroll comes first, before the subs, before the lumber yard account, before golf, before his wife taking the kids to the west coast to visit her family, before everything else. Needless to say my days are numbered, but my immediate concern is what happens this week if I have difficulty collecting the past two weeks worth of wages and expenses.
Is there any process to attach business assets for missed payroll? Is there a procedure to lien a property where I have worked (as might a subcontractor) in an effort to recover missed payroll? Can missing payroll be considered theft of services?
Best case scenario is I get paid mid week and we part ways. I would like to give some thought to a less than best case and be prepared. Your thoughts and experiences would be appreciated. As always, thanks in advance.
Replies
In Florida even an hourly employee has lien rights.
I've read some of floridas lien laws and from what I have read the lienor who has recorded a claim of lien may demand a copy of the contract under which that lien was filed from the owner.
My question is if that contract was fulfilled by the owner, meaning he has paid the contractor for the job, do you as an employee have any recourse against the homeowner. I would think he is protected under the law and you will have to go after your employer.
It also appears that if you haven't filed a notice to owner of your right to lien within 45 days of commencement you don't have the option of filing.
Edited 4/27/2008 10:58 pm ET by TomW
Quite the judgment call.
I had a good relationship with my former employers, so I accepted many late paychecks. It was probably easier for me to see because part of my job was delivering invoices and receiving checks! I had a decent read on how much was out there in terms of receivables, and I trusted them, so it was never an issue.
Payday being on Friday, I was never paid later than Wednesday, and was eventually laid off without them owing me a dime. They closed up shortly after.
But that's kind of an ideal scenario. My inclination would be to see if you get paid by Wednesday, and if you do then give your boss one more chance. But I don't know him. You do. Do you trust him? Do you like him?
Job-hunting blows.
I agree with you......lots of upstanding guys get caught like this......maybes can be a mile long. Wouldn't hang the guy quite yet.
It depends on where you are. The labor, lein, and contractor licensing laws vary state to state.
In Nevada, you file with the Labor Commision, and they freeze all his assets until you are paid. If he has insufficient cash reserves, they can sell his equipment and tools, or give you the option of taking tools and materials in lieu of cash. I worked for a guy who paid us half of what we earned for a few weeks. One of the guys went to the labor commision, and the next day we met the guy form the labor commision and an "appraiser", (who turned out to be a guy from the pawn shop who would give you cash for whatever he said something was worth), at the shop. The Labor Commision guy had checks for us of about half what he owed us. We got to take turns picking tools and materials to make up the rest.
In some states the bond he has to carry as a condition of license, covers payment for employees. Some customers also require labor and materials bonds on the work.
Edited 4/27/2008 8:48 pm ET by Jigs-n-fixtures
I dont know if its legal, but I wouldnt work again for him till you see a check.
I once had an old boss tell me that you're not helping a guy by extending him more credit if he cant pay what he already owes you.
Plus you'd be cutting your potential loses too. If this is temporary, no biggy, if this becomes a problem, its a problem, get out.
just from my point of view... no matter what... my guys get paid when they should get paid... period... i might be broke... but I'll be damned if some guy who works for me will be broke because of me... In the same tone I keep guys working that have been good to me even if there is little or no work... even if it means they cut grass and clean up around my warehouse...
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Tough to say.
A sit down and Q&A period is in order.
Why can't he pay is the question.
It is possible he is getting the run around from somebody and he has no , meaning zero, ability to pay you. I have been there and done that with my old crew. I had the money within 2 days after threatening the client with every possible and imaginable dire consequences I could think of.
No good solid reason ?
Then start looking for the next job IMO.
I actually got caught one other time by a bad client and that time paid my crew before anybody, including the IRS, that one ended with me losing/giving away 14 years of solid work to satisfy everybody I owed.
Not all things are in the bosses control some days.
Wow. Your 'best case scenario' is you get paid mid-week, THEN you're gone? Good riddance.
I do hope you get paid.
I've been held up by clients and had to tell my crew that I didn't have the payroll... exactly twice in thirty-some years.
In each case I got them together and explained exactly what had happened and how much money I had on hand for payroll. I told them when I expected to get paid, then asked who could get by without a check until then.
I asked who had to have money before then and how much. In the end everyone was happy and there was even enough for me to keep gas in the tank and food on the table.
If your boss didn't show you that kind of concern and respect, just stiffed you alone on payday without an explanation, you should probably start looking for another job...if only to find out what's out there before quitting.
I have been on both sides of this problem.
If the boss treated the employee like you sis or as I did, there generally is no problem. It sounds like he has a problem with a boss that doesn't care about employees.
Wordt case is go to the homeowner or contractor he has current job you were on and ask for their help in getting paid. This worked in my case.
Whatever you do don't ransum his materials or equiptment, then you can be treated as if you stole them.
Good luck!
Worst case is go to the homeowner or contractor he has current job you were on and ask for their help in getting paid. This worked in my case.
That's pretty effective alright. I did that once when I was traveling around the country, working for cash on a day to day basis, and trying to keep up with a larger group.
I ran out of money in Sante Fe, NM so I got on the phone and started calling contractors in the yellow pages. Got hired immediately for some repairs on a rustic old Motel.
Met the contractor on the job the following morning, got my instructions and re-affirmed the agreement we'd made on the phone about cash at the end of the day, at a specific time.
The contractor didn't show so after waiting an hour I found the Motel owner and explained the arrangement to him. He'd complimented me on my work earlier in the day and was very willing to pay what was due, just to keep me happy and coming back the next day.
Of course the other side of the coin was that the contractor's game was totally exposed. He ended up being very embarrassed. I suspect that his reputation suffered accordingly.
Hey. what goes around... ;-)
You're a good guy, HVC!
It would be nice if more people would include their employees in problems that affect them this seriously and make sure everyone has enough bucks to get by till things get better. The alternative, sadly, happened to me...checks written knowing that they would bounce. Thankfully, my CU didn't charge me for them and I was able to cover the shortage.
Thanks Suzie. One thing I discovered from that experience that's worth mentioning; some people are happier living like squirrels, always putting something away for later, while others are live-for-the-moment (if not in the moment) types.
Within any group there will be some who enjoy saving their money and others for whom it burns a hole in anything it touches...gone before they can count it.
So when I came up short on the payroll the second time I felt confident that there'd be a couple of guys who would step up with pride when I asked who could get by without a check for a few days. And that's almost exactly how it worked out.
Edited 4/29/2008 9:46 am by Hudson Valley Carpenter