Hi,
Just wondering if there is any “fix” to the following problem.
I hired a reputable company to do some renos on my bungalow and I am not pleased with their work. They were hired to installl drywall/ paint and plaster 3 bedrooms among other things. When I went to inspect the rooms over the weekend I noticed there were a lot of imperfections in the ceiling. Let’s just say whoever the company hired to do the job didn’t know much about plastering/ drywalling. Several areas on the ceiling were not sanded properly before the primer was applied, leaving raised edges . You can clearly see where the sheets of drywall were joined. The edges were not feathered out and sanded properly. Scrape marks in the plaster can bee seen as well. Obviously the guy didn’t wipe his blade before applying the final coat of wet plaster. He let the plaster dry and then applied the primer/sealer.
Is there anyway to fix this mess? The ceilings have all been primed with Primer/sealer. So I take it sanding is out of the question. 1 other ? The man who was hired to install the crown molding didn’t do the neatest job. Now I have blobs/smears of caulk on parts of the ceiling(above the crown) and below where the crown meets the wall. Anyway to remove this caulk without damaging the drywall.
I am very curious to hear what they have to say about their work next week. As far as I am concerned it is unexceptable!
Guess I should have plasterd those ceilings myself.
Wanda
Replies
time for a recall and have them fix everything you don't like on their dime....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
There is a big difference between plaster work and sheetrock finishing.
Not to pick on you but it helps to use the right terms to get what you want. Just tell them one coat and unsanded is not finished and is not acceptable.
The finish can still be sanded , but is simply harder now. a final skim coat can be done over the whole surface if that is necessary to get a smooth surface. then sanded.
You really don't need to worry so much about the details of HOW they go about doing it, just that you know it is not hard to give you a smooth finish with qualified help so don't let them say "Can't"
It is their job to get it done if they want to be paid.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
I'm bettin the OP is in Canada, I saw on Holmes on Homes, that plaster is used interchangeably with joint mud.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
BRING BACK SPLINTY.
You are in for a world of misunderstanding if you try and understand Canada through Mike Holmes. We tend to call gypsum board drywall, but I've never heard anyone call mud plaster.
"We use screws because they're better" Mike Holmes
Just saying, I caught the misnomer first, so there.
I'd love to be a citizen of canukistan, esp, the Maritimes or Oh Crud, it's nothing but white and cold.
I hadda take a leap and make the conection to Homey..I was right now,eh?Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
BRING BACK SPLINTY.
He makes me so mad. When my igloo melts in the spring I may mush down and lay a beating on him.
Thees are th tings memrrys ar made off. Eh.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
BRING BACK SPLINTY.
>>, but I've never heard anyone call mud plaster.<<
Locally heard - joint compound - mud; joint compound; premixed mud; green / purple / blue top (refering to the color of the bucket top / weight)
Setting compounds - 5, 20,45,90 (refers to setting times); hot mud; durabond
New Orleans - spackle
I've never heard plaster either.
If they think they are done -- thats a nasty looking job.
JimNever underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
Hi,
Not sure if I posted this pic but this picture is worth a 1000 words. Sums up the quality of their interior work!
Caulk can mask a lot of sins hey.
Wanda
I LOVE that they actually marked the reveal with a pencil, and then missed it by a mile...you got a Lens Crafters in Canukistan? Someone needs his bi-focals checked..LOL
Sorry for the giggle.
I wish I was closer,I'd fix it up.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
BRING BACK SPLINTY.
Is that a bent over nail hanging out under that casing?
Hi Ralph,
Hey, I didn't even notice that .. it appears to be a nail sticking out below the casing. When I go up on Tuesday to meet with the head guy I will take a look.
Wanda
As mentioned previously. "They marked the reveal with a pencil and missed it by a mile".
One thing I have always found annoying is hack carpenters that have to mark their reveals because they can't eyeball it. Then they leave all or part of the pencil marking there thinking the painter will take care of it (seldom the case). Getting rid of those stupid pencil marks in an inside corner like that is a real hassle and they don't always simply come off with an eraser.
Second that. It can be sanded again, even with the primer. Or, like Piffin said, just skim coat over the primer if the compound beneath is reasonably smooth. Me and plaster are not friends right now, so I refuse to talk about it.
Sounds like a call back to me.
Hi,
Sorry about the confusion. Yes, Plastering is another kettle of fish all together. I used to live in an old Victorian home (78yr old heritage home) Where the walls were actaully plastered. Most modern homes where I live (Canada) are "drywalled". Sheets of gypson board nailed to strapping.
The bungalow I am referring to has 1/2" sheets of gypson board installed. Nothing complicated about installing and drywalling a few small rectangular rooms. A relatively simple job for a qualified person.
I have some experience drywalling. I taped and drywalled my basement hallway and laundry room and believe me that wasn't an easy job considering the way the drywall was installed. So I am familiar with the process. It's just time consuming.
Usually you apply a bit of drywall compound on the seams and then press the paper tape into the compound. (1st coat)Then you using a 6"knife or drywall trowel a 2nd coat of compound is applied... wider than the first. A little light sanding and then onto the final 3rd coat. Using a 10" trowel to featherout the compound. When this coat is completely dry then a light sanding with a sanding pole is done. You should not be able to see any seams (where the sheets of gypson board join). Should be smooth and seamless.
Let's just say their job left ridges and trowel marks. So there is now way I am going to paint any ceiling with ceiling white paint till this mess is sorted. They have cost me time and money. I'm certainly not going to have the same man try and fix what he obvioulsy F.. up! He'll only make it worse. They have clearly shown they are unable to do the job. But I am willing to bet they are going to tell me they can fix it... BS! "
I really thought this company could be trusted to do the work properly. Unfortunately, that is not the case. I want them out before they do any further damage. Bad enough they ruined my new counter top. by cutting a piece of wire on it. They were told to protect the counter with a covering. they had paint tins, light fixtures, nails and electrical boxes laid on the counter and they had drywall dust and screws in the sink. That should give you some idea of what kind of work is being done.
They couldn't even install pine colonial casing around the windows properly. The mitered corners were a mess but what did they do... they just used drywall compound to fill the GAPS! To make matters worse they were told the pine casing wasn't to be painted. If I wanted it painted I would have paid for the less expensive finger jointed pine casing. The list goes on.....
Carry on Carpentry!!!
Wanda
Your scenario is a good reason to learn how to do stuff and DIY. Whole 'nuther topic on how to find competent workers.
Not being facecious.
Own drywall jobs are atrocious, that is why 90% of my house has paneling. <G>
Hi junkhound,
Yeah, pine panel board would cover up a lot of imperfections in the wall. Actually the bungalow has pine panelling in the main room.
Oh my! No such thing as competent workers around here. Qualified men are scarce in these parts. Guess they've all moved to Alberta! So far it has taken them since Sept. 3rd to install 3 windows a bit of insulation,drywall, and and moldings. It's a nightmare!
Wanda
How about some photos???
The best reward for a job well done is the opportunity to do another.
Hi David,
Here are some pics of the work so far.
wanda
Hi,
Here are a few pics of the pine colonial casing that was recently installed. I also posted a pic of the main ceiling. It was taken prior to painting.
Wanda
Nothing in this batch of pics is even close to acceptable. Even for low-end rental prop.
Ceiling---Skim coat by a qualified DW finisher.
Casing---Redo by a professional carp.
Hope these guys didn't bill themselves as pros.
The best reward for a job well done is the opportunity to do another.
shoot David, I'm a raming carp and I know I could do a better job!!!!!!!!
OMG'''
That is nothing to be bragging about, wow. Better call Mike Holmes
Wow, did you specify that the crown molding be installed that way, as in upsidedown?
I feel bad for you. They did a lousy job.
"Preach the Gospel at all times; if necessary, use words." - St. Francis of Assisi
Wow, you got porked for sure Wanda, and you have my sympathy. It's workmanship like you've documented that gives many people good reason to be wary of contractors in general.
That said, I'm wondering what lead you to believe this company was "reputable" when you hired them? Did you get a referral from someone that you knew? Were they the low bidder?
You said that they started work 8 weeks ago. You sound reasonably knowledgable about the work that they were supposed to be doing, but it took until they were almost "finished" for you to notice?? Did they ask for 90% up front?
Based on the obvious lack of workmanship, I am wondering what compelled you to make progress payments. The absence of quality must have been evident from day one.
I am not trying to make you feel worse about a sorry situation, and it's a shame that you've been stuck with this mess.
Anything can be fixed. Cheer up.
Hi,
Guess I should add some clarification here... Yes, I did my homework. I "shopped around" before making my final decision. My lawyer recommended the company. Apparently they did work on his cabin.
I think 2 1/2 months was ample time to have completed the job. Hell, they did most of it in 2 days. Its just that they were "squeezing us in" between other big jobs. So basically they were in there working 1 day out of the week.
Ever since they completed the roof (1 1/2 days) work was practically at a stand still.
I am off to write up my list now. I'm busy printing off a few pics to add to my file.
I will keep you posted. Tuesday should be a very interesting day.
Wanda
I thought WE had cornered the market in sloppy tradies "down under",but by god,your lot come pretty close!
Did I get it correct that you have fronted them about this? Would love to hear the response.
Robin
I'm guessing that you hired out of work loggers, since the "copes" were obviously made with a chainsaw. <g>
Seriously, short of starting over, paint & caulk may be the way to go. Depends on if you can get a do-over without breaking your budget, and your intentions for the house. Rent/Sale/Live in???The best reward for a job well done is the opportunity to do another.
Yowsah! Not only were they slobs, that crown molding is up-side-down.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin,You just beat me to it. . . .http://www.josephfusco.org
http://joes-stuff1960.blogspot.com/
Careful Paul.
Several yrs ago I was hired as a court witness for a contractor. One of the demands against him was he installed the crown upside down.
I backed his install up.
You guessed it, his version had the cove on the bottom-the homowner said it should go on top.
Ever since then, I always ask-even on simple forms of crown. I might advise-but always ask.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
wow, upside down crown, haven't seen that one before...you might want to double check the orientation of your doors too...ouchj
Hi,
What exactly do you mean by the orientation of the door. It opens inward.. hinges on the right side.
Wanda
I think he was kidding that since they were stupid enough to install the crown upsidedown, they might have done the same with the door.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Hey WandaMy door orientation remark was in jest...meaning you might want to double check to see if the doors were installed upside down as well. Probably not, but I've never seen crown installed upside down either other than a newbie first starting...but not actually finishing a project upside down.Hope you can get everything corrected.Jay
Hi Jay,
Well time is ticking. They started the interior work Sept. 3rd. Things are progressing BACKWARDS!
That was their 2nd attempt at installing a door. They damaged the origional door. Tried covering up the damaged veneer with drywall compound. (we're talking about a veneer hollow core door). Any idiot knows you can't patch a hole in a hollow core door with drywall compound. My god! What do they take me for... Last week they came in and replaced the door. You can see by the pic that the door isn't new. Probably something they scrounged up from one of their warehouses. So now when I go up to meet with the head bozo I have to tell him that door isn't exceptable and they'll have to install a 3rd door. Maybe they'll be lucky the 3rd time around who knows. Time is ticking. They have wasted enough of my time.
For all I know maybe that door is orientated upside down. LOL
So we have a door that needs to be replaced, a window pane that needs replacing.. crown molding that has to come down, drywall that needs to be fixed and colonial pine casing that will have to be removed.
? is who is going to do the work. 'All I know for certain is the men who did the work won't be coming back to fix up what they f.... up!
Before I meet with the head guy I must write out a list of questions. I have to figure out how best to deal with this mess. I don't want to ruffle any feathers but at the same time I am not going to let myself be had by these incompetent workers. Obviously this has been a rush job. They have been working on other projects. They are treating my bungalow like some cabin in the back woods! SLOBS
Wanda
ordinarily I would suggest you need to give the guy a chance to make things good. in your case I think its time he got the boot.
regardless of what your contractor says, any court would respect that a certain level of quality must be met to fulfill a contract. from the photos you have posted here I would guess your contractor does not have the expertise to meet an acceptable level of quality.
that pretty much puts him in breach of his contract. I would not pay him another dime and then contact an attorney to recoup whatever you have paid
she's seen the ugly side of contractors and now you want to introduce her to the world of juris prudence ? get real......she is not going to see a judgement for a long time...
i would never encourage a homeowner to seek redress in the courts... only as an asolute last resort
and sometimes not even thenMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Where in Canada?...I'm in Van. and could take a look if anywehere near....Cheers,Phil.
"If 'tis to be,'twil be done by me."
Hi guys,
I found out the answer to one of my questions. Got a call today from the contractor. They are FINISHED! I will be going up for a walk through next week. The head guy is on holiday doesn't get back till Monday.
Incorrect installation of materials... (Crown moulding/casing)... not to mention several other mishaps. Oh boy I'm going to have fun with this SOB> He's made a fool out of me. Obviously he has no regards for his customers. No respect! I have been in small claims court before. I am not going that route. I will try to resolve this problem "diplomatically".
Before I meet with him next week I better get myself to the gym to work off some of my ANGER...... LOL
He is not doing anything for the profession. The profession deserves and should demand respect but with bimbos like this working in the trade.. it's not helping.
I'll be asking for names and credentials. OMG! Calling me this morning to let me know the work is complete... They are not being paid until this is resolved.
Do I have to waste my time to point out every mistake. Do I have to tell them how to do their job. Do I have to bring up my miter saw and show them how to cut a 45 degree angle. Do they need instruction on how to install casing? They obviously don't have the skills to work around imperfections. No wall is flat and no corner is perfectly square but by the time you finish your installation the miters appear perfect. pleasing to the eye. They can use a block plane to trim the miters to make them fit . trim the miter parallel to the other miter all depends on whether it's out on the heel or toe. You can even shim the casing if you have to. Better yet how about using biscuits to join the miters.
I should be feeling on cloud 9. I should be ecstatic knowing the job is finished. I've got an uphill battle ahead of me for sure.
Wanda
I would advise you to remember that good companies sometimes do bad work.The work that you have is not up to par, but it's not the worst I've seen either. Maybe the guys working on the job were under a lot of pressure, or maybe they have substance issues, or maybe a worker just found out his wife is leaving him so he's not 100% focused on the orientation of the crown molding.Either way, you have a problem and they may have a solution. You are not likely to find if they have a solution by confronting them harshly. More than likely, aggressive behavior will cause the situation to escalate.I would ask the owner to come over and show him the work. Ask him, in manner that's as polite and unassuming as you can, if he thinks that the work is acceptable. Give him a chance to make it right.If that doesn't work, you can pursue the next level of pressure on the contractor. Remember, you hold the money so he should have a motivation to work with you. You shouldn't hold it over his head, but you should also be able to expect a reasonable solution.Good luck.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Do I have to waste my time to point out every mistake.
Yes, you should prepare a written punch list so nothing is "forgotten". You might want to embed small pictures of the bigger problems. Keep the list technical ... don't use it as a forum to berate them, just list the problems. If there are multiple rooms involved, a simple floor plan with reference numbes to the punch list could be a benefit."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
"Do I have to waste my time to point out every mistake. "at this point, with him claiming to be finished, I would say yes.This is where you DOCUMENT The problems he caused and what is unfinished and/or unacceptable. Do it objectively, making a list and with photos. Consider this thread a dry run. You've done well here.At the last paragraph of the letter with the list that you deliver and go over with him, state, "I expect these deficiencies to be fully corrected withing ten days ( or what ever reasonable period of time) or I shall be forced to hire other help to complete your job, and will subtract that cost from what is owed to you."This sort of documentation is very helpfull in court. In over half of jurisdictions now, you are required by law to give a contractor ample and reasonable time to make correction. Disallowing him that opportunity can possibly be reason for a court to find against you, at least in part.It is possible that he is 100% pure idiot ( or thinks that your are) or is it possible that he has an A crew and a D crew. You got the D crew and the letter will serve him notice that it is time to bring in the A crew.another possibility is that he is not capable of any better. If that is the case, then a part of the blame here lays in your lap, for hiring somebody this incapable without qualifying their work thru references and looking at samples. I don't say this to pick on you, but as a warning to others who are on the verge of ending up with this sort of thing. A lot more people are looking for the price cutters in this tighter economy, without realizing that the guys willing to cut price are too often doing it because they know they are charging more than their work is worth - sometimes nothing.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
For all I know maybe that door is orientated upside down
Probably not, but the edge bevel could be backwards."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Could be worse. I took over a crown job this summer from another contractor. Crown was upside down, installed flat (no spring angle), and with lap joints (rather than miters).It was high dollar 5-1/4" Azek too.
Makes you wonder how they get dressed in the morning.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Well, if you must know, it was roofers... they have to get dressed in the dark, getting up so early and all...
So the first time they have to take a leak they find 'em on backwards?A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
"Could be worse. I took over a crown job this summer from another contractor. Crown was upside down, installed flat (no spring angle), and with lap joints (rather than miters).It was high dollar 5-1/4" Azek too."damn...I need to get out more often.Jay
thanks piffen, you had it correct.Jay
oops, sorry paul, i'll trade you an i for an e...j
>>haven't seen that one before...<<Oh, that one's been around the block here several times before. Doesn't make it look any less dopey this time around, though. I've seen it going on upside down on remodeling shows on TV several times too.Wanda, tear out the casing and start over with that, skim the ceiling. Crown, if upside down is OK with you or normal where you live (I don't say that facetiously either...there seem to be areas of the world where that is how it's done) then I think a little caulk and paint can save that part of it.I wouldn't pay them. Or maybe pay them just for the hanging of the sheetrock, because that can be salvaged.Steve
Edited 11/13/2008 8:32 am by mmoogie
Hey SteveNow I think I'm going to have to install some crown upside down to see if anyone else notices :-). Hell, i've probably installed it upside down and didn't notice...hope not.By the way what part of ny are you in? I've lived in liverpool (syracuse area) and horseheads (yeah, I know...elmira area). Just got back from a visit to grandma's in hammondsport (keuka lake, finger lakes region) first part of oct...beautiful time of the year.Jayp.s. sorry for the hijack wanda
Hell, i've probably installed it upside down and didn't notice...hope not.
Don't know if you're kidding or not, but I think you would have noticed. Not necessarily because of the profile, but because of the spring angle. Normally, there's more crown on the wall than on the ceiling. If you had it the other way around, it would look funny. It sort of looks like the crown was installed ON the ceiling.
yeah don i was kidding...i hopejay
Hi Jay,I'm ten miles south of Cooperstown. Yep. We had a beautiful fall. I'm thinking it's going to be a rough winter. We had a foot of heavy wet snow and power out for a day and a half before halloween this year! I never get west of here for much of anything except when driving across the state on the way to somewhere else.Steve
yeah, I hit it perfectly oct 4-19th...first time i'd been back in a few years, so i really enjoyed it (live 40 miles north of atlanta now).jay
I don't think I could take working in the heat anywhere south of here. I've got relatives in atlanta.Steve
a little calk and paint can save that part of it.
Wrong. It's going to take more than a little caulk to fix that crown. Shame on you for proposing to use caulk to cover up poor workmanship."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
>>Shame on you for proposing to use caulk to cover up poor workmanship.<<I'm not proposing doing it to cover up poor workmanship. I'm not suggesting it could be made perfect with caulk and paint, but if she can't get any satisfaction from the guy, and has to eat the cost of any corrections it could be improved to the point where you don't notice it so much. Not everyone can afford to rip out everything that's not perfect and do it again.I don't blame Wanda for being upset at all. This work is totally unacceptable. I myself would rip it out and do it again no matter what it cost, but I'm not Wanda. I don't know Wanda, but I know a lot of people who would be loathe to rip it out. They would caulk it paint it and get on with their lives. Everyone has different standards and different financial situations. Steve
WOW!
You didn't pay these fools anything yet, did you?
Wanda, if you don't get a satisfactory response and repair job from them AT NO ADDITIONAL COST, you should proceed to small claims court without further delay. The quality of work in those pictures wouldn't meet the standard of a typical weekend DIY warrior, let alone a company that presumably sold themselves as a bonified contractor.
You should also inform your local Better Business Bureau about these clowns. The BBB won't re-do your work, but they may be able to assist in getting the work redone, and if nothing else, they may be able to stop this outfit from doing the same wack job to other unsuspecting customers.
Good luck, and I feel for ya.
Go with Wanda and for god sakes stop the check!!!!! File complaint And good luck
As Piffin mentions previously plaster and drywall are two different things.
Drywall will be pretty easy to fix. Simply have the contractor have his guys go over their mistakes and fix them with more mud at the joints and taper to smooth things out and do the requisite sanding. Generally I've found drywall compound to stick to primer fairly well so adhesion isn't a huge issue. in the end they will have to reprime the entire surface.
Modern plaster on the other hand is more fickle. These days in new construction the plaster is more likely be be a veneer coat applied over a special type of drywall specifically meant for this application (I think they call it "Blueboard"). Joints are taped in the conventional manner with one coat of drywall compound. Then the plaster crew comes in and applies a thin coat of gypsum plaster (about 1/8" thick) over the entire surface. This requires a good deal of skill and practice to get it right. Things have to be pretty smooth by the time they have floated the surface because in the end they will not be sanding the surface except for minor imperfections. This is also quite a costly process which is more than double the cost of conventional drywall treatments.
I've seen worse. The crown won't fly, but the gypsum finish is salvagable.
Doesn't look or sound too good....
First though, let me say this: With drywall, anything can be fixed.
Next: Are they finished? (or do they think they are finished?)
The reason I ask this is the following is my sequence for finishing a house (somewhat simplified):
This is for a level 4 drywall finish. See attached for further explanation.
- drywall guys hang and finish drywall.
- Trim guys install trim
- Painters prime raw wood, then prime everything else
(no tape seams should be showing at this point)
- Drywall guys come back and do a pointup where they go over the walls and ceiling with a work light to expose (and fix) surface imperfections
- Painters come back and putty nail holes and caulk. They they paint everything with 2 coats of paint.
- Plumbers, HVAC guys and electricians come in and do their trim-outs. They do tend to bang up the walls a bit.
- Drywall guys come back and do a second point-up.
- Painters come back and go over everything again on an as-needed basis - every surface may not be painted again.
I left out a few steps like hard flooring, cabinets, carpet, mirrors, etc. You see my point though when I say - are they done yet? There is several steps to drywalling, all of which aren't consecutive.
A few other things:
A level 5 finish where they skim coat everything costs extra. Certain lighting conditions can show differences in texture on the wall more than others. For example, a room with windows high on a wall where direct sun comes in will really show the differences in texture between "mudded" and plain painted drywall.
Also, there is a NAHB book called Residential Construction Guidelines that among other things says that drywall surfaces will be viewed at 90 degrees from 6', under normal lighting conditions. So, that doesn't mean holding a lamp up to a wall and then looking at it at an acute angle. Not that I think you were doing this, but it is just background info...
Good luck getting your stuff fixed...
hello,
We have to meet with the contractor next week to do a walk through. Now to find out whether or not they are finished. But judging by the bags of garbage left outside on the deck it's pretty obvious they think they are finished with the painting and drywalling. The carpet and all the scraps of wood and blobs of drywall have been cleaned up.
They sure caulked the hell out of the upside down crown. Guess they need a lessen in how to use a coping saw to cope a molding.
NEANDERTHALS! and now they have not been paid. The contract says we can hold back 10%.
We were assured the men were all qualified ( I assume that means they all have their journeymen papers). Told they could install trim. Otherwise I would have hired a trim carpentry company to do that job.
OMG!
Wanda
I want these men OUT!
>> The contract says we can hold back 10%. <<
I can't really tell how bad it is from those pictures, but you may not want to give them any (more?) money until they get it mostly straightened out. If there is a large amount of work to be done, 10% may not be enough to cover it. You see if there is not enough money left in the job they may feel they would better off not coming back and forfeiting their 10% which may not be enough to get someone else in there to fix it.
Still, you gotta handle this situation very diplomatically. Remain calm. (that one is for me) When you start talking to them tell them what they did right. Tell them how much better your home is gonna be once the job is done. Say something good about their guys (even if you have to make it up). Then tell them what you want fixed. If they get too mad, there could be months of delays - and I know that is the last thing you want.
exactly... don't pay any more money....
but don't burn any bridgesthis is no different than convincing a sub that they want to do the right thingMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
right! 10% won't begin to cover the demo to get ready to fix it. Take the crown down
sand out lumps in the SR finish
replace bare wood that was suppsed to be bare but is now ruined for stain or varnish with DW mud and caulk
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
If you have paid them 90% of the bill already... I think you can safely assume that they will not care in the least about the final 10%, or about fixing the lousy workmanship.
while your advice may be beneficial to someone in an addition or whole house remodel, a permit is not required to install drywall and crown molding. Wanda, depending on your location you may be able to file a complaint with the local homebuilders association.
Complaining to others before first attempting to resolve the problem through the company responsible is not the way to go.
A sitdown or punch list review of what was contracted for vs what was actually done, including your perception of workmanship, is your first step.
The owners of the company might be interested in knowing that their workers are not up to snuff and that their reputation may be compromised.
You may or may not get the action you need at that point but you should give them a chance. If they are willing to give up that last 10% and not respond, then would be the time to let them know you will seek help elswhere and that it will be at their expense.
If the company enjoys a good reputation they will most likely not be willing to be trashed with publicity with an appearance in small claims court, which, by the way, will require you to attempt remediation so you might as well do that first, with documentation.
They will also not want to have the local news hounds air their dirty laundry on the six o'clock news. Each of our TV stations has a segment where "contractors" are taken to task. Names are named and shortcomings are exposed to the world. So much for that company's reputation. Negative publicity will cost them more than the 10% they were initially willing to give up.
well said
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
"a permit is not required to install drywall and crown molding."That depends on location. Some areas require a permit to fart
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
One can say that in some locales you need a permit to get a permit. . . Go figure. . .http://www.josephfusco.org
http://www.constructionfourmsonline.com
the taping is salvagable, almost anything is. be sure to cut out the air bubbles under the tape or they will never go away
all that aside, the first thing that needs to go away are the landscapers you hired to do carpentry!
good luck
Wanda, I hate to see anyone get ripped-off by a contractor. What a mess! I made a good living following people like the ones that ripped you off, although I never actually met one. In the future, for your own protection, hire only Licensed professionals with proof of insurance, and insist that Permits be pulled for any and all alterations.
It's my experience that you cannot pull permits without a License or proof of insurance. The Permit is your friend, and your assurance that Building Inspectional Services will not sign off on work such as you have posted. Furthermore, in many cases they will prosecute the purpetrators of such a crime, and, while they are busy taking creeps like that to task, they will have your work performed competant professionals. The Permit is your friend.
If I lived near you, I would crank up the ol' covered wagon, and stop by. Keep your spirits up, there are good people out there!
>>It's my experience that you cannot pull permits without a License or proof of insurance.<<That's not so where I live. To pull a permit in my county I need to show workers comp or exemption from it, but nothing else. I've never bothered with a license here (rural upstate New York), but have passed the licensing exam in Minneapolis. I'm allowed to do plumbing and electric without a license here as well, in most places. Only in one city in the entire county do I need a license to do electric or plumbing.More important than licensing, IMO, is seeing some examples of their work before hiring. I've not advertised in 10 years and am booked out for the next two. Never had a problem or complaint about quality in 15 years of doing this professionally...Not bragging, just pointing out that you can get good work from unlicensed people. Just depends on the culture where you live. In this neck of the woods, those of us who actually pull permits are looked at as government toadies, and suspect on a highly personal level ;-)Steve
Edited 11/13/2008 12:19 am by mmoogie
No offense, good buddy, I guess I'm provincial and just need to get out more often. I grew into the trades in Cambridge, Massachusetts. Great weight was put on the Boston Builders License, and the State Construction Supervisors License, Workers Comp. or an Exemption. Out of work Journeymen were often Permitted do to their status as Journeymen, however, it was the homeowner who actually had to pull the Permit and act as General. It's also my experience in the Greater Boston area, that the people who just did it without a Permit, or untill they were caught, more often than not, did not do professional work.
Some Cities were more strict than others, and some Countys were more laxed than others. By and large, you couldn't bang a nail without a Permit, and that goes for exterior painting which often required a little carpentry. Now, that's not to say it wasn't done all the time, because it certainly was. But the loser was the Home Owner, with no means of redress, save Small Claims Court.
In Wanda's situation, she could've pulled a Permit, had she known, whereby she would have to act as General and call for inspections as the work progressed. Needless to say, she would not be in her current situation, if an Inspector had seen this work. In that case the Inspector is the bad guy, not her. She can empathise with the workers, but have the work redressed to full compliance. The Permit is the home owners best friend.
Now I live in Florida. After Hurricane Andrew tore up South Florida, they re-wrote the Building Code when they saw the result of Fly-By-Night contractors who converged on the state, took the insurance money and ran.
So, take no offense. I'm only offering an oppinion, and trying to impress on the unknowing, that there is a way to take care of yourself. The Permit is your friend.
OK, let's say no Permit is "required" Had she gone ahead and pulled the Permit on her own, which is her right, do you think she would be in her current situation? $25/1000 is pretty cheap insurance!
>>No offense, good buddy<<OK, no offense taken, ol' pal.I wasn't talking about the validity of permits, only the way they are viewed in the rural backwater that I live in, I was mostly talking about licenses. I do pull permits, when required to do so. While I'm sure things are quite different there in the big city, I work in what is really still considered appalachia. It's like living and working in Mayberry RFD, only smaller and more podunk. No, more like Petticoat Jounction. No smaller than that. More like where Jed Clampet moved away from when he moved to Beverly. It's a completely different world than metropolitan Boston, or metropolitan anywhere for that matter. My point was merely that while having a license is an indicater that a contractor may know how to navigate the beauracracy and follow the code books, it's not going to guarantee that the people working for them are any good at their craft. Only seeing their work will tell you that for sure.Like I said, I do pull permits. And if I was working in Minneapolis, where I've passed the licensing exam, and worked as an estimator, project designer, and lead carpenter, for the entry fee of about 1000 dollars a year I could have a license. Since I'm not working there, I don't see the point. And since I'm not required to have a license here, and the culture is such that nobody cares if you do, I don't see the point here either.Back to permits: >>Needless to say, she would not be in her current situation, if an Inspector had seen this work.<<A little bit of sheetrock and trim in a basement here would not require a permit, and even if you pulled one, it would not be be an inspected phase of the work. None of that work would stop a C.O from being issued. It's sloppy work, but none of it is against code. Steve
Edited 11/13/2008 8:31 am by mmoogie
>> Needless to say, she would not be in her current situation, if an Inspector had seen this work. <<
And:
>> OK, let's say no Permit is "required" Had she gone ahead and pulled the Permit on her own, which is her right, do you think she would be in her current situation? $25/1000 is pretty cheap insurance! <<
Please see my .71 post above. Apparently you disagree with what I said. Please explain. I'd like to hear your expierences. Things must be very different in FLA. I'm here to learn.
Matt,
I do not disagree that there is a "scheduled" inspection for drywall to make sure that the screws are 6" OC around the perimeter, or 8" in the field, or that there is a finish inspection. My experience is that the only thing an inspector will pay any attention to is the thickness of the drywall, to make sure that it does meet Code for that particular situation. In my oppinion, The Code is all about FIRE! However, before I go off on that tangent, I would like to speak to you about Permits and the home owner.
Just because there is no "scheduled" inspections on small jobs, that by no means negates the homeowners right to call for one. I suspect that this will be hashed out while filling out the forms, as will liabillity of the General and the positions taken by Building Inspectional Services. BIS are the homeowners watch dog. They will most definitely get involved with shoddy work. A complaint from a Permitted homeowner will be inspected, and more often than not, a second inspection with the contractor present, will also be scheduled, at which point the process begins.
I am no longer a contractor. When I was, the lions share of my work was done in the Greater Boston area. And like anywhere in America, the good, bad and ugly melt into the same pot. Lately, I'm working as a Union Carpenter out of Ft. Lauderdale, FL. If you are not satisfied, write back, and I'll be happy to respond. Thanks.............
Thanks for the response...
Before I respond to the issue being discussed, let me tell you a bit about myself. I'm licensed GC here in NC and I permit every job I work on, so I am quite familiar with licensing, permitting and inspections - or at least here in NC. Previously I worked in VA and it was pretty much the same.
Sounds like they definitely do things differently in MA. Since I hadn't heard the term, I Google "Building Inspectional Services" and got hits in several towns/cities in MA, so maybe that is a term specific to MA - apparently that is their name for the AHJ. I have to say though, I'm amazed the MA building inspectors would be involved with any of the issues brought forward by the OP in this thread. Here, BIs only deal with code issues.
So, I'm learning.... Or, maybe I'm not understanding your point.
Edit: or maybe you are just making a general point (unrelated to the OP in this thread) that BIs are an asset to a project but can only be so if the project is permitted....
Edited 11/13/2008 10:48 pm ET by Matt
all the cities and towns i've worked with in RI are just like your experience...
if it ain't code , the BI is not going to even offer an opinion of the quality
sometimes ..... one -on-one, you might be able to get an opinion out of a BI... but most are not going to step in it...
they can lose their job if they get dragged into court as an "expert witness "... the towns don't want the liability of getting in the middle of a disputeMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Matt,
You sound like one of the good guys, so, let me ask you. On a small job, if there is a dispute, and the job is Permitted, are you saying that the only thing a BI can do is become a witness for the Defense that the work is up to Code? Awh, shucks, now I wish I never said that, because it seems we are heading towards legalities. That's a hair ball I'd rather not cough up. I'd rather be figuring angles for the chop saw than leagle angles.
Maybe you right in saying that they probably do it different in MA. I cannot see the forrest through the trees. I wonder if the Taunten Press can enlighten us both. They have offices in Kingston, MA which is one town away from Plymouth, MA and about fifty -odd miles south of Boston. They also would have the articulation to be able to focus on this discussion and point out pro's and cons of the Permit
I'm not trying to pass the buck. I've earned that buck, and short of paying tax, the difference is mine. Nor am I done with this discussion. I think what I'll do is call Boston (Cambridge) and see if they can help me figure out what I'm saying or trying to say. Matt, just one small tangent. If you lived near Wanda, would you stop by?
I get the idea that you are new here...
Just as an FYI, I've been around for 10 years and have never really had a discussion with anyone from Taunton Press save this guy named Andy who used to be the moderator back in the dark ages. They don't get involved in our discussions unless someone starts using 4 letter words or whatever....
Would I go look? She lives at least 1K miles from me so it's kinda a moot point.
DieselPig lives in Mass - maybe he has an opinion. I'm sure there are other participants from MA but I can't think of any right now. Anyway, it's not a big deal. We are just talking here....
RE your Q: >> On a small job, if there is a dispute, and the job is Permitted, are you saying that the only thing a BI can do is become a witness for the Defense that the work is up to Code? << first I don't think it matters if it is small or not, it would be treated the same. Second, even though I have a repor with at least a few BIs they probably wouldn't come out unless there was an inspection to be done. If there was no inspection needed they would say they were too busy. If there were an inspection to be done, and the work was done to code it would pass - if not - pink slip. Quality of workmanship doesn't come into play so long as code is not violated. If it had already passed, they would likely very specifically decline to look at it again knowing that something might have been missed in the previous inspection and not wanting to undermine that inspection. In instances when I have asked an inspector what he thought about some suspect work he would either say it is to code - or not, or maybe roll his eyes and say - it is to code. I have heard of instances where HOs had grievances and they got the GC licensing board involved - but that is a whole other story, but again, there probably needs to be code violations to show that the contractor is clearly in the wrong. That is just the way it works here - elsewhere, I don't know.
I don't know where in Canada the OP is from, but here in BC drywall inspection is only required if it forms part of a fire separation. Otherwise you are on your own.
Fingersandtoes,
I'm starting to become self concious, in that I may not know what I'm talking about. Now, even I'm curious. I just posted to Matt, that I'm gonnah call for clarity, and I will. After I hear from the Authorities I'll return to "Botched Drywall Job" and post either an appology for getting it wrong or, a clarification of why we should all move to Boston.
Apology? Save your breath for cooling your soup. It's just a discussion about poor drywall. No lives have been lost.
Fingersandtoes,
I used the word "apology" simply to state, that if my comments have been misleading, they should be corrected, even if I'm the one who does the correction. As yet, I haven't called Cambridge, MA.............time is tight at the moment. I love that little saying, save your breath for cooling your soup. Thanks, that goes in the book of keepers.
Around here knowledge of the building code is passed on much as word of religious miracles was in the Middle Ages. If someone is told by an inspector his 2"x8"s are overspanned, within days he will have told everyone he meets that 2"x8"s are not allowed by law. Direct reference to the actual code is seldom seen as a good way to adjudicate disputes. The results can be quite funny as long as you aren't involved.
That's as bad as it can get, looks like the kids next door did the whole project. Please don't tell us you've already made final payment too! If not then I wouldn't till they come back and tear off all the crown and start over with fresh coats of mud cover that mess on the ceiling.
gotta guestions going back to a few post.......... would permits and inspections cover the finish work......... such as poor drywall finish and trim?
I was thinking the same thing. Our building inspectors don't have any authority in assuring a good drywall finish or good fits in the finish work. There is nothing in the building codes that would cover any of the problems that Wanda has. At best the inspector might shake his head on seeing poor workmanship in the finish, but probably not even that. They see a lot of #### in their rounds.
I would give the head guy a chance to make it good but as many of us have been told here on BT, chalk it up to tuition payments for continuing education.
>> would permits and inspections cover the finish work......... such as poor drywall finish and trim? << As a general statement: NO.
From Wikipedia: "The main purpose of the building codes is to protect public health, safety and general welfare as they relate to the construction and occupancy of buildings and structures."
Poor interior paint job? N/A Molding not done professionally? N/A Imperfections in drywall surfaces? N/A Wall not straight? N/A. Sloppy floor covering installation? N/A Etc.
If there were a hole in the drywall between the house and the garage a BI could say that that it needs to be a (fire) rated assembly and the hole breaches that rating. Or, if the exterior paint was not applied properly or siding seams are not caulked properly the BI would likely say the house was not weatherproof and not acceptable. Same with siding, roofing, and flashing installation. Or a loose piece of carpet on the steps could be called a trip hazard. But, upside crown molding has nothing to do with "public health, safety and general welfare "
I'm speaking in generalities. I'm sure there is always going to be some small exceptions or one BI that has a bug up his bu+ but those are exceptions. So, I've had houses COed (final inspection) that didn't have one or more "essential items". A few examples: Carpet, kitchen range, dishwasher installed even though there was a place for one, missing interior door, pieces of special molding missing in one room, etc. Some inspection jurisdictions might be more strict, but I'd be a bit surprised if anyone reported "I failed my final inspection because I had a big gap in an interior door casing molding", or because "there was a nasty looking tape joint showing in my drywall", or because "the painters got paint on the cabinets and counter tops".
The only code requirement with regard sheet rock is that joints need to be taped and mudded since that's part of fire control requirements. Building codes and inspections are concerned about safety and health not finish appearance. In other words, it can look like cra* but it meets code.One caveat...Often when an inspector observes bad workmanship it's an indication that the trades person is either just lazy/sloppy or inexperienced. In either case, if you happen to have a good inspector, that perks and inspector's curiosity and he/she may look a lot closer for missed details within the code. Example: Electrical inspector observes that the wiring inside a sub panel looks like a birds nest and cables aren't tied neatly etc. The first thing they do is look closely to be sure things are correct and everything is bonded/grounded according to code.
One inspector on a job that I saw noted that there was a slight amount of visible light coming through a joint in a shear wall...??? Questions come up immediately at that point and he starts digging a little deeper for mistakes, there were and we had to do some rebuilding.
Generally, if it's just cosmetic then that's not part of the building code but it's a little flag that pops up in the inspectors thinking. You must remember however, building inspectors are first and foremost public employees and it's not unusual for public employees to be lazy, not concerned about anything except filling their position in anticipation of retirement & pension.
Edited 11/13/2008 1:08 pm by woodway
Sometimes it is as easy as pointing these things out. If you do see something that is unacceptable, do say something. If they try to tell you that it's normal, I'd be upset. I would assume they were rushing to get all of the sanding done before the paint, probably missed a few spots.
hi guys,
Believe it or not what yo see is what you get. According to the head carpenter the job is COMPLETE. The casings are all F.. up as you can see. They were not supposed to be caulked because it's stain grade pine colonial..left to blend in with the pine panelling on the walls.
Trust me I've had several"walk throughs" with the main guy in charge. I went over everything with a fine tooth comb. Just to make sure we were on the same page. but everytime I go up to do another walk through to see how the work is progressing and to make sure everything that was supposed to be done is being done... I notice more f.. ups!
The place has been butchered! I know that company wouldn't be in business if this is how it treated its customers. Like I said earlier this is very disrespectful towards the customer. The pics speak for themselves.
I should be able to move right in .. I've been told the job has been comleted. I was hoping to have all the furniture and sstuff put back in place before Christmas.
can't believe that drywalling job on the main ceiling. Does that look like 2 coats of ceiling white on that ceiling to you? Did they water down the paint... Not much pigment in that paint. obvioulsy a LOW GRADE papint. We were assured they'd be using a decent quality paint not a basement bargain grade.
They have managed to screw up practically every small job. The interior is a disaster! I've seen better drywalling in the restroom of KFC!!!!
They will have to start over. I'm asking them on Tuesday to take down all the moulding(crown) and casing. God knows what we'll do about the drywalling disaster. Anothe skim coat might not be the answer. My God! When you start from a brand new ceiling how do you mange to F.. it up like that???? HOW?
Wanda
Oh..My...God.
I feel sorry for ya..but hey! That steak is blue chalk..should wipe off, if it was red, well..you's be really screwd.
Rip 'em a newone! That is awful, the window trim is ..well..AHHH..MY EYES!Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
Wanda.
My first day 36 yrs ago with absolutely no training I wouldn't leave a jamb extension or miter anywhere close to that.
The adage of a man on a fast horse would be quashed with this job.
I bet dollars to donuts, he can see it from his house.
Best of luck.
A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Whaddya think that jamb extension is made of? An old packing crate, or used pallet material? if it is new lumber, they threw it on the ground and drove over it a couple of times before bringing it in the house, eh?"I bet dollars to donuts,"
That phrase doesn't work as well anymore, now that a donut can cost more than a dollar. Now back in the day when you could get a baker's dozen for a buck...;)Should I tell Wanda that top end of the handrail needs to be supported with another bracket ( preferably set plumb) and eased off to be safe? That washable blue chalk was just left there to distract her eye from the more important things, I reckon. That one is an inspection item, no?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Really something isn't it. You would think that they would have zero referring customers.
I suppose you could make a business working for everybody just once.
Probably have to repaint your truck more often.
Guys laid off from jeep do a better job.
The damn HS technical school would do a better job.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Hello,
Just wondering about crown moulding.. The agent I was talking to today said they usually miter the corners at a 45 degree angle and glue them together. I'd prefer to cope. But obvioulsy they are trying to save time. To be effective I always thought glue joints required a little pressure from clamps.
I would never think to glue the 2 miters together. Anyways that's how they are installing crown in the new sub divisions according to the real estate agent.
What is the nailing pattern for Crown. 1 nail in the joist 1 in the stud ?
How about cove moulding.. I"ve been told you can nail cove moulding every 12" nailing it into the top plate.
Wanda
Cope is a better joint. Mitre will open with seasonal movement and show a lot worse. They are probably doing it that way in the subdivisions because it's faster, not because it's better. Nailing depends on what's there for by way of blocking, but generally on low one high, stud/joist. But that only works when you are installing perpendicular to joists. Some folks will put a triangular backing piece behind the crown to have better nailing. Cove is not so particular... every foot sounds about right.Steve
Nailing pattern - whatever works - sometimes 22" sometimes 8"We do crown with both coping and mitres, glue on both. It depends on the job and the molding style. Some crown styles cannot be coped.It is not your job to dictate HOW the job be done, only to indicate that it must be acceptable when finished. There are almost always 2-3 or more different acceptable ways to accomplish a task. What are after is the end result, tight joints, clean wood, and a smooth SR surface painted so you cannot see through it, without slopping paint on your wallpaper and anything else.
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Some crown styles cannot be coped
Really? Like what? I'm not disagreeing, just thought eveything could be coped."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Many of the fancy MDF profiles can't be coped due to the complexity of the design.
Is that because it's mdf, or the detail?"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
I have only used MDF crown one time, for me- it is the shapoe of the detail. I'll have to look later and see if I have a photo of one for an example.
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When there is a raised bulbous feature, and sometimes where there is an extreme angle other than 90°, it causes a portion to be notched off and disappear.
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Thank You!
I have a meeting set up with the contractor tomorrow morning at 9:30am. Wish me luck!
I'm not looking for miracles here. God knows what kind of resistence I will receive when I ask for the Crown to be removed.. But I am not paying for such a low standard or work. As far as I'm concerned this job isn't complete. I will try my best to be "diplomatic" I am not out to rip the man's head off. I just want to find a solution to the problem. I'm sure it can be ironed out.
Wanda
just reading it all and wanted to second piffin. It isnt up to you how they do it (unless specified before the job started) and i wouldnt even show your knowledge of how to trim out a window or use a block plane it may only serve to make him feel attacked and defensive and therefore escalate any head butting. All you need to know is what looks like an acceptable finished product and what doesent and you are paying him for an acceptable finished product, and your house as of yet doesn't meet that criteria. Enough said.GOOD LUCK!! i feel for you and keep us posted______________________________________________--> measure once / scribble several lines / spend some time figuring out wich scribble / cut the wrong line / get mad
Edited 11/18/2008 4:27 am by skyecore
Hello guys,
Where do I begin!.... I had my walk through witht the guy in charge this morning.
We started in the bedrooms and then progressed through the rest of the bungalow. Didn't mention anything about the crown molding till the end. At the end I gave him a list of items to be fixed/replaced/repaired.
After he had a look at the plastering he told me he wished he never had Dave do the plastering. How's that for a confession! His words not mine.
I was given the impression that the company would hire certified professionals to do the plastering and trim work. That they would contract out different men for that. We spoke about that months ago before signing the contract. I wanted to make absolutely sure the job was going to be done properly. The wool has been pulled over my eyes.
Found out this morning that the ROOFER did the trim work and plastering... I"m speachless. That would explain the crappy job. He said Dave (roofer) was the only guy he could get to do the job. All the other men were in the city.. Why didn't he tell us that he didn't have anyone qualified to do the plastering before we signed the contract. I would have hired the man who did my downstairs tv room. But DEAR LORD.. a roofer! OMG!
Now I'm wondering if it's best to start over. replace all the drywall. I know he painted over a bubble in the tape. So god knows the tape could start peeling in a few months.. if the tape wasn't embedded with enough mud... They had no business hiring a ROOFER to do drywalling.
I'll give the guy some credit he didn't give me a difficult time. He still assures me the work will be done before the end of the month.. So he better find someone whether he has to pay them overtime to get this work done. One thing bothers me.. he said Dave (roofer) could come back and fix up the plastering job.. I said NO Way no how. no Dave. I want a pro DW and I want to know his credentials
Wanda
maybe he'll hire a plumber to do the repairs."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Even worse, an electrician!!!
I don't know, we've got plenty of laid off autoworkers here-they have a pickup.
A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Wanda, why didn't you do all this work yourself? Sounds to me like you may be a contractor of sorts. At least seem to know alot about the business.
Russell
Some of us 'roofers' CAN do decent work if given half a chance Darlin';)Had to pull your leg a bit there.
I started as a roofer for twenty years, but my very first trim job, done with no mitre saw ( just a handheld circ saw) and a utility knife for a block plane trimmer, was far better than what this guy has done for you. I think that job was in about '75. It really was poor judgment for the GC to use Dave to do this job and pawn it off as professional.Best of luck.
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Yer more'n a roofer, don't be a show off!
I just had to laugh at how she was so aghast at a roofer by gosh.just about the only thing lower is a painter!
;)I know, I know, all in good fun. This guy is apparently still just a roofer. I think we know now why all those black smudges on the wood trim.
;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Yeah, some roofers can do nice work, eh?
and with a skilsaw and a utility knife, fer cryin' out loud!
=)View Image “Good work costs much more than poor imitation or factory product” – Charles GreeneCaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
Hi guys,
I apologize if I have offended any roofers. That was't my intention.
The Contractor led me to believe that a qualified DW would be doing the plastering. That's what pisses me off.
Judging from the work that has been done so far I don't think I have any other choice but to get these men out. They are not qualified to do the work. (that voids the contract if you ask me) The work speaks for itself.
Is it common for contractors to hire roofers to do interior trim and plastering? I don't think so. I assume they have qualified trim guys and drywallers for that kind of work. He hired the roofer to do the interior work on my bungalow. Dear Lord. Why didn't he tell me he had no one qualified to install and do the drywalling. DISHONESTY... This man has lost my respect. He's not to be trusted. I was even told this guy Dave could install oak moulding and he would be replacing the butchered moulding that had been installed in the bedrooms .... again knowing it was dave in the first place who f.. up the crown but leading me to believe it was some other man on the crew. How dishonest is that. told he was his top guy. I've really been "PORKED".
Contractor: "wish I had of never hired Dave to do the drywalling". Then later admits that he has no one to do the drywalling.. said he'd get back to me tomorrow. But get this he insures me the work will be done in 2 weeks. He's been told not to do anything till we meet with his guy.
I don't think I want this man walking over my threshold. As far as I'm concerned the games up! OUT OUT OUT! I have only paid down a small percentage. I will pay them for the roof and other minor things they've fixed up. NO money is being paid out for the drywalling.
They will not see a dime till they install a new countertop, bathroom flooring ,window and door that they damaged. This is unexceptable. It's the repsonsibility of the contractor to have the floors and counters covered. Not the customers.
I"m left with a mess. I discovered yesterday while doing the walk through that the newly installed screen door doesn't fit properly. It closes at the bottom and the top but there is a gap in between. Let's just say it doesn't close flush which could lead to problems. It's not air tight. I just hope to hell that Dave's roofing job is up to scratch.
A one man wrecking crew that's who I've had to work for me... I'm on a rampage!
wanda
Wanda,I'm not defending the work you've had done at all. It is not acceptable. You are being perfectly reasonable to expect better.But in my company, and in many other small companies, the guy that does the roofing is the guy that does the drywall and the trim and the painting, and whatever else needs to be done. I am a generalist, and so are the other two guys that work with me. To be good at all things takes a lot more skill than to be good at one thing. I know other contractors with 5 guys, none of whom can fit two pieces of wood together tight.It's not about who does it as far as you are concerned, only that it is done right.My point is you have to check references and see examples of their work before you hire. That is all there is to it. If the guys feels bad about the job he has done for you, and he has any integrity, he will make it right if he can. If he truly no guys with the skills needed to get it right, then you need to disengage from him now.Steve
HI,
Consider me DISENGAGED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)
Wanda
What Mmoogie says it true. In my company my best bathroom guy is my best painter and my best plumber. My best drywaller is also my best computer guy and best kitchen guy. Both are decent roofers for the few times we get involved in that sort of thing. We are simply not big enought to have a specialist for each trade and even if we did trying to keep everyone busy in their speciality would be a nightmare. DanT
I"m left with a mess. I discovered yesterday while doing the walk through that the newly installed screen door doesn't fit properly. It closes at the bottom and the top but there is a gap in between. Let's just say it doesn't close flush which could lead to problems. It's not air tight.
HUH?
how air tight do you want that screen door?
because she insults you and your roofers you have to insult painters?I started as a painter in the '60's...the only time they are below the roofers is when the painters are inside the house and the roofers up top on the roofDon't know why the OP is complaining about using the roofer...they could have bought the sod layers in;)
Barry E-Remodeler
Sorry about the painter crack. It was all tongue in cheek, rolling with the flow. I wasn't offended by her cracks on roofers either, just trying to lighten the mood. She is in control 'cause she still has the money in her pocket, not his.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
<It was all tongue in cheek, rolling with the flow>That's the way I took it. Just busting your chops a wee bit.But...rolling with the flow? now we are bringing in the plumbers? :)
Barry E-Remodeler
are you trying to say that if plumbers had run that crown, it would have been a sawsall job?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I bet it would all be sloped to drain.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
<are you trying to say that if plumbers had run that crown, it would have been a sawsall job?
>If I was trying to say it politely <g>it would have all been downhill from there
Barry E-Remodeler
Hey now, the last house I finished in NC, I installed the sod.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
Did someone have to keep yelling...Green side up:)
Barry E-Remodeler
How'd ya know? (G)Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
LOL
Barry E-Remodeler
I'm visiting a job soon where the roofers are the sod layers...timber frame with a sod roof.
The 1st question I ask potential new hires is: "Have you ever or do you intend to hang or finish drywall?" If the answer is "yes", I run 'em down the road with a switch. Can't have riffraf like that on my roofing crew.http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
Some of the bathrooms and kitchens I remodel involve some drywall work on my part... never realized I was jeopardizing my chances of becoming a roofer. ;o)
A switch, huh?Do you resort to a pike if the switch doesn't get their attention?There's always the good old mace when all else fails.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Do they use staples or nails?Hand nail or gun nail? I'd think they would have a hard time controlling depth with a gun:)
Barry E-Remodeler
around here that handrail need to be returned to the wall to be legal. 'something about catching your nightie in the dark
>>around here that handrail need to be returned to the wall to be legal. 'something about catching your nightie in the dark<<Same here. Two reasons I heard...homeowner not catching nightie fleeing a fire, and firemen not catching hose on it on the way in.Got a client fighting me on that right now. I put it in legal, she hates the way it looks. Wants an old fashioned firetrap-style handrail.Steve
Edited 11/18/2008 8:29 pm by mmoogie
"another view of the finished ceiling" is a tough call. You have low angle light raking across the ceiling, and that will accentuate the joints. Maybe what you should do is call the local tv station and see if thay have an investigative reporter looking for a story."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt