I ran into a sort of odd situation yesterday, and want to know what you guys think.
I met a contractor at a jobsite yesterday to measure for trusses on a new house. The contractor lived nearby, and asked me if I would look at some trusses in his house that were “sagging”. I agreed, so we went over and climbed up into his attic.
On one end of his house, the first and second truss in from the gable had a spot in the top chord that was bowed down significantly. The 3rd and 4th truss were bowed down a hair in the same spot, but not as bad. The rest of the roof (With identical trusses) was straight as an arrow. The bow was in the back of the house – the front is all straight. The gable was also nice and straight, which provided a stark contrast to the bowed trusses – Makes it pretty obvious.
The contractor built the house sometime in 1998, which would make it about 5 years old. He built the house for himself and has lived in it since it was finished. He claims the roof was straight/flat when he built it, and this has happened in the past year or 2.
I looked for signs of problems in the trusses, but found none. No broken chords, pulled plates, big knots, or anything like that. Soffit and ridge vents are in place, and there are no leaks or moisture problems that I could see.
I can think of 2 things that might possibly have caused this. First is a couple of bad pieces of lumber. They were reasonably straight when the trusses were built, but bowed badly when they dried out. Seems like they would have dried out quicker,though.
Second would be overloading with construction materials. While this may be possible, I obviously can’t prove it. Since the contractor said they were straight when he built the house, that would mean he is either mistaken or not being 100% honest about it.
So what I’m basically asking is, who do you think should pay to fix this now? The trusses are bowed, but it may or may not have been a manufacturing defect. No way to prove either way.
Is the contractor liable, since he’s the GC? Or is he responsible as the HO, since he wasn’t provided a warranty from a separate GC?
This is a largely academic question, since I no longer work for the company who made the trusses. The guy just asked me since he has know me and done business with me for a long time. I basically told him he would have to negotiate with them, since they were the manufacturer.
Just curious what y’all think……….
Tim Taylor: “I didn’t bug you during childbirth did I?”
Jill Taylor: “No, but you bugged me during conception”
Replies
How are the top chord connections in the bowed trusses? Long term shrinkage would straighten the chords, so that's out. Maybe the chords had excessive shrinkage during the first winter and pulled the joint open. If the chords don't slip back in cleanly, which the pulled nails would prevent, then they would bow out as they expanded. This is a bit of a stretch without actuallty seeing anything.
...that's not a mistake, it's rustic
All the joints looked fine - No evidence of damage, pulled plates, missing plates, etc. Housework is endless. Life isn't.
Weird question Boss. Would you guess from looking at the trusses that the individual pieces of lumber that are bowed are all from the same log?
Sounds like the roof needs to be stripped to the sheathing, then sister something to the side of the truss to straighten the roof line. Re-ail sheathing to new sisters and re-roof.
Or are you/he thinking replace the trusses?
Is this a problem that really needs fixing, or just a what if?
If there's no telling what caused it, who's to pay for it is probably something that lawyers will have to fight over if the Builder/Owner is trying to pin it on the trusses.
Sounds like an ignore it to me, but I can't see it from here. How big is this dip in the roof? 2"? 3"? 6"? spread over 4 or 5'? Like an elephant sat up there?
If the Trussman don't know, it's a mystery.
Joe H
I didn't look at the trusses close enough to have any clue if the pieces were from the same log.
If it were my house, I'd want to do something to it. The dip in the roof is PAINFULLY obvious. At least the first 2 trusses in - The next 2 aren't all that bad. I'd guess the dip is 1" to maybe 1.5" deep.
You asked about the size of the dip - From the peak down to the first web is about 9'. The dip is all in that area.
I don't think the fix is nearly as bad as taking off the roof and/or replacing the trusses. I think with some pressure from underneath, the top chords could be pushed out enough to make it look pretty straight.
I was looking more for a discussion of who would be responsible for the cost of the repair out of curiosity. Just trying to sort it out in my mind.
Boss, let me ramble on here a bit and maybe something will pop out that makes cents.
Bowed = stretched ( not shrank)
did the webs there shrink? If any
is there a vent blowing at that spot ( hi moisture)?
a ceiling opening?
is the bottom of the member much moister than the top?
Is the ridge still straight?
According to my stanley, 2 3/8" deflection (3 fingers if ya wanna be scientific) in a 6' long chord is 1/4" of stretch.
There is a pattern in the problem. )) )) ) ) | | | |
I think that the problem is not in the wood, but rather, an external cause.
Moisture coming in from the GE somehow?
GE vents?
Well vented? if the bottom of the 2x is much cooler than the top would that make enough moisture differential?
Is air flow effecting the (aim) of any leakages?
What rooms are below the area?
Fix this guys mystery cheaply and you'll be a hero... We won't tell him that you really don't know anything, you just ask us. hehehe. Hey no owowow! Cool.
That was real helpful.
SamT
Sleepless in Columbia.
Diurnal rhythm? What songs did they do?
Edited 6/27/2003 3:21:21 PM ET by SamT
Well, there is a gable end vent in the gable adjacent to the 2 trusses. But I didn't see any signs of moisture at all.
No ceiling penetrations anywhere near.
So whom do you think should pay to fix it?Entropy just isn't what it used to be
> So whom do you think should pay to fix it?
Hard to answer that without knowing what caused this strange condition. Alas, this is the kind of question that if it came from any other source, I'd say "Ask Boss Hog." The HO/GC should ask the truss company to have a look and discuss the matter. Hopefully there's a way to stick-build a repair from inside the existing structure.
-- J.S.
You go all the way back to the guy who cut the log in the first place and strapped those sticks in the bunk with the straight ones.
Did you look to see if there was some wild grain that would cause a differential shrinkage or maybe a stress relief that didn't show up right away?
How do you serve a subpeona on the guy who manufacturered the tree?<G>
"Did you look to see if there was some wild grain that would cause a differential shrinkage or maybe a stress relief that didn't show up right away? "
I didn't notice any. But that thought didn't occur to me while I was in the attic, so I wasn't really looking.
"How do you serve a subpeona on the guy who manufacturered the tree?"
That would be quite a trick, wouldn't it.
And if the lumber is really defective, who's at fault? The people who sold the lumber to the truss plant? Or the truss plant for using it? Or the GC for putting trusses on the house with faulty lumber in them? Or is it just "one of those things", and the HO has to fix it?
If the trusses in that area are overloaded and its a compression member, maybe that would be the cause. Any signs of deflection in the rooms under that area?
Seems as thought the fix would be easy. Scab on some 2x and knock the sheating up.
Maybe and hour or two.Tom
" If the trusses in that area are overloaded and its a compression member, maybe that would be the cause. Any signs of deflection in the rooms under that area?"
Nope - Nothing unusual at all. Nothing on the whole house looks bowed down except the 2 trusses. (And the next 2, but to a lesser degree)I used to be an inventor. Who do you think came up with the inflatable voodoo doll?
If you can tell me why they bowed I can tell you who should pay. Until that is known, nothing can be decided...not who pays, nor how to fix.
SamTSleepless in Columbia. Diurnal rhythm? What songs did they do?
If the world's leading expert on trusses (Boss Hog) can't determine the cause,no blame can be assigned to anyone and it is the homeowner's problem.
Smile. It could be worse. You could be me working for you.
Yehbut, The Boss hasn't tried to solve it yet.
Boss Hogg, pleese climb back on yer pedastel.
SamTSleepless in Columbia. Diurnal rhythm? What songs did they do?
"If the world's leading expert on trusses (Boss Hog) can't determine the cause..."
Oh, stop it. Pretty soon I'll have an ego as bit as Piffin's....................(-:Why do I have to get married? I didn't do anything wrong.
how long are the interior chords?
it sounds like the chords didn't have permanent lateral bracing installed and you might have had a good size snowdrift curl over the edge of the house and land right there.
possible you think?
The chord segment in question is 9' 4" long - Nothing out of the ordinary for #2 SYP.
Hadn't thought of the snowdrift idea. But while we get snow every year, we typically don't get all that much. There's only been one significant storm in the past 5 years that I can remember. I know I'm narrow minded. But I can afford to be - I'm right.