Replies

1. 
   Scott | Dec 20, 2008 09:54pm | #1

   >>>Boy, have I got an issue

   Yes, you do. You didn't mention a vapor barrier in your description of the original construction. That was likely the main problem.

   Now for the big question:

   Is the rest of the house built like this? Your issues may not be limited to the one bathroom.

   Scott.

1. 
   Wyobuild | Dec 21, 2008 01:29am | #9

   Thanks everyone for the input. 

   To add a couple things,  there is a cinder block wall that is in front of the framed wall, the part below grade. 

   I am in Wyoming and it is tough to tell if there is any foundation coating on the outside of this wall. 

   The rest of the house, as far as I can tell, is built like this, however, in going around the perimeter of the crawl space there doesn't seem to be any more rot. 

   Even if I use a vapor barrier, won't condensation still form in the wall cavity based on higher temps and steam on one side meeting cold temps on the outside? 

   I had planned on using regular PT lumber but will consider burial rated.  

   Any other suggestions? 

1. 
   klhoush | Dec 21, 2008 01:47am | #10

   Since the wall can't dry to the outside or the inside I would go with the high grade PT, (make sure it's dry!) and closed cell foam. If there's no cavity the condensation should occur on the surface of the tile.

   OB

2. 
   splintergroupie | Dec 21, 2008 02:27am | #12

   If you have enough closed-cell foam (the blue board or pink board, extruded foam, not the beadboard expanded foam) between the inside of the wall and the outside of the wall, AND it's sealed all 'round like i advised, you don't have moisture migrating anywhere and the inside of the wall remains warm.Having said that, i'd still always put felt behind my Durock or Hardiebacker. Suspenders, belt and a little super glue never hurt.

3. 
   davidmeiland | Dec 21, 2008 04:29am | #13

   Have you ruled out the possibility that moisture is entering from the exterior? Placing con block against a wood framed wall is a bit, um, unusual. Would have been better for them to simply construct the lower third of the wall with block, and then frame up from there, instead of sandwiching.

   When you rebuild the shower I would strongly suggest a surface applied waterproofing over your backerboard, something like Redgard or the similar products from Noble, Bonsal, etc. Or go with Kerdi. There are at least a couple of good reasons to do this, not the least of which is the vulnerable wall construction you have there.

1. 
   artacoma | Dec 21, 2008 04:48am | #14

   If you need to use pt lumber for an interior wall you might as well nock it over and start from scratch. PT lumber does NOT fix moisture related issues. the roof might not fall down but the mould and the water will still be there.vent over thanks for listeningRik

2. 
   Ted W. | Dec 20, 2008 09:59pm | #2

   The biggest issue I see is you need to suppor that wall as you replace the studs and sill plate. Otherwise, you're doing pretty much what I would do. Then again, I could be missing someting too.

   Are you sure it's the lack of vb causing the moisture issue? Could be from the 1/3 of the wall being below grade, if I read correctly. May want to check that out.

   Is Wyo... Wyoming? Fill in your profile so we know where you're at. Makes a big difference in how vb is used.

   See my work at TedsCarpentry.com
   Buy Cheap Tools! BuildersTools.net

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3. 
   ToolFreakBlue | Dec 20, 2008 10:11pm | #3

   What is the construction of the wall at the bottom 1/3?

   run us through the materials piece by piece from the soil outside to the tile in the shower.

   TFB (Bill)
4. 
   MikeSmith | Dec 20, 2008 10:19pm | #4

   1st..... it's easier to read your post if you use your return key to put some white space in

   2d  <<<<<exterior wall on one side that the exterior grade meets about 1/3 of the way up the interior wall>>>>

   it sounds like you have a wood framed exterior wall  BELOW grade ?

   is dat rite ?

    

   if it is    you have to  figure out  your exterior waterproofing  system   and then work your way to the interior... if that's not what you have... then  lets start with a better description of whatchugot

   Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
5. 
   habilis | Dec 20, 2008 10:36pm | #5

   And people wonder why I hate to bid (gambling; who's going to win me or them) a job. There's something about "I don't know what I'll find until I get into it" that they don't understand. As a project manager for five yrs. over half my time was estimating, but that was new construction. Plans, specs, qualifiers and change orders for gravy if we needed it.

1. 
   Ted W. | Dec 20, 2008 11:18pm | #6

   "There's something about "I don't know what I'll find until I get into it" that they don't understand..."

   Ohh... they understand. Just don't want to hear it. ;-)

   I guess the bottom line is it will cost you $X amount to do it right, and that's what they have to pay to get it done. Some are understanding and others not so much. It's nice to have every customer happy all the time, but not always possible.

   "Can't please everyone... so you...

   Got ta please yourself... doot, do do dooooo.."See my work at TedsCarpentry.comBuy Cheap Tools! BuildersTools.net

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6. 
   splintergroupie | Dec 21, 2008 12:01am | #7

   Just treat the wall like a below-grade wood foundation, or alternatively, pour a wall, or block up the below-grade area.

   I've put in a wood foundation i'm very happy with, but you have to use treated dimensional stock rated for burial. There are essentially three ratings on the stuff: burial, contact, and outdoor use. You may have to order treated wood rated for burial; i did. Ditto on the treated ply sheathing. Any cuts should be swabbed with preservative, too. Then you have to make sure you have a 100% waterproof membrane over the exterior sheathing, like peel-n-stick rubber membrane or plastic dimple fabric like Dorken.

   Use extruded foam board for insulation cut to fit the bays and seal around the edges with a can of spray foam - no need to hire foam installers to come back. I didn't use a vapor barrier. I screwed sheetrock directly to the treated studs and have no issues with water or mold. (Assuming you have a footing drain...)

1. 
   Ted W. | Dec 21, 2008 12:13am | #8

   Good to see ya back, splinter! =D

   Happy Holidaze! See my work at TedsCarpentry.comBuy Cheap Tools! BuildersTools.net

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1. 
   splintergroupie | Dec 21, 2008 02:18am | #11

   Thank-you, Ted. Being "home for the holidays" is a bit of all right!