Replies

1. 
   BossHog | Feb 22, 2003 04:26pm | #1

   Bracing always seems to be a confusing and debated topic. No one seems to agree on who should specify what.

   The roof plywood provides all the bracing the top chords of the trusses need. (Unless you have a valley with no plywood under it) And the drywall braces the bottom chord well enough. (Unless you have a long cantilever somewhere)

   To me, the things that typically need braced well are the gable end studs. I like to see a horizontal nailer (in the attic) every 4' or so that's diagonal braced to something solid. It helpes in heavy wind some, but mostly just keeps the gable studs from bowing.

   On a simple roof like this one, I don't see any benifit to bracing anything else.

   If your parents didn't have children, chances are you won't either.

1. 
   TimGoins | Feb 22, 2003 09:51pm | #4

   O.K. sounds good. I have a storage space designed in it. Nothing big. I was going to put down some 3/4inch plywood for the decking. And a lateral brace on both sides. And two diagonal on the gable end coming out about two to four feet. Thanks Hat 

2. 
   jimblodgett | Feb 22, 2003 05:52pm | #2

   Here in Washington bracing instruction usually come with the truss package.  I have to say though, they usually seem like WAY overkill to me. 

   32" is a plenty long truss, I'd at least install a rat track on top of the bottom chord, close to centered, tieing the bottom chords of the two gable ends together.  If nothing else, this will get the bottom chords exactly on layout.  Depending on how flimsy they seemed after that, I might add 2x4's paralell to those, centered between that and the bearing walls.

   Then I'd fasten one end of a 2x as high as I could on the center post on each gable truss, and fasten the other end at 45 degrees or less, to the rat track, as a diagonal brace to hold everying paralell and plumb until the roof is sheathed.

   Boss Hog is right, once the ceiling and roof are sheathed, chances are you're braced way way better than any 16 penny nail secured 2x brace can give you.
3. 
   bedlam | Feb 22, 2003 08:34pm | #3

   That is suprising tat the truss manufacturer will not include bracing specifications seeing as they engineered the trusses and all....

   Anyways, we have always braced this way up here in Chicago:

   Gable end trusses:  a California corner stiff back is made to be nailed horizontal to the inside of the truss apx. halfway up.  (this relly helps to straighten the gable end which is especally important if you are using certain types of siding, such as vinyl)  we also have three kickers made out of 10' 2x4 to brace the gable end plumb.  we always try to set these directly to wall plates, but if that is not available a beefed up rat run will do.

   Main Trusses:  Plywood or OSB sheathing provides all the structural bracing you need for the top chords of your trusses (on another note, remember to use your plywood "H" clips)  Most likely you will have "W" type trusses where the webbing between top and bottom chords resembles a W.  On the middle point of the "W" we use 1x4 lateral bracing which also aids in spreading the trusses.  We usually put this in the upper third of the trusses where it is still in reach to be nailed off with a couple 8d's.  We also put lateral bracing down the center of large rooms on bottom chords (it helps with drywall instalation and stiffens up the entire ceiling especially where walls are running paralell to thetrusses and must be tied in.  In some cases we also run lateral bracing along the lower thirds of the "W" (up here the required lateral bracing is marked by flourecent tags stapled to the truss in the correct position)

   Hope this helps

   Ryan 

1. 
   BossHog | Feb 22, 2003 09:57pm | #5

   "That is suprising tat the truss manufacturer will not include bracing specifications seeing as they engineered the trusses and all...."

   Not really. What Hat was talking about is bracing the building, not bracing the trusses. There's no reason for the truss manufacturer to specify that.Intelligence is like a river: the deeper it is, the less noise it makes.

1. 
   UncleDunc | Feb 22, 2003 10:22pm | #6

   I've seen you say this before, trusses are components of the roof <i>system</i>. For me it's only been sinking in very slowly, but I think I'm getting it. When I read today's exchange, I thought, "Well, yeah. Which component supplier would you expect to include information on bracing a wall? The stud supplier? The OSB supplier? The plywood supplier? The 1x4 supplier? The steel brace supplier? All of them?"

1. 
   BossHog | Feb 22, 2003 10:43pm | #7

   Bracing can be a hot topic, with lots of opinions flying around. (Kinda like attic venting)

   I can understand the arguement that a truss supplier should specify erection bracing for their trusses. (Although I don't agree that they should have to)

   But no way do I think that there's a legitimate arguement to say that a truss manufacturer should sopecify permenant bracing. Interviewing Robin Williams is like trying to hold helium in your fist. [Barbara Walters]

1. 
   UncleDunc | Feb 22, 2003 10:49pm | #8

   I agree. Like I say, it has taken a while, but you persuaded me.

2. 
   BungalowJeff | Feb 23, 2003 08:42am | #9

   Boss,

   A compilation of your threads would make a good truss primer. Why not make it official with a book, or at least a FH article series?...that's not a mistake, it's rustic

3. 
   BossHog | Feb 23, 2003 03:38pm | #12

   Several of the threads that I put a lot into, I just refer back to. So I sort of have a "truss primer" here.

   I've talked about trying to come up with a FH article, but haven't had time yet. I'm also not sure what to write about. FH wants stuff that's interesting to contractors, but isn't way over the heads of homeowners. That's tough to do.Blessed are the meek, for they make great scapegoats.

4. 
   InspectorBob | Feb 23, 2003 09:45am | #10

   During the design process, the truss engineer determines which compression members are at risk of buckling, and he specifies bracing where necessary.  Permanent lateral bracing maintains spacing of the trusses and resists buckling of the compression members.

   The building designer detemines how the truss system is anchored. Permanent diagonal bracing is commonly used to resist racking, and to help transfer the loads.

    The Truss Plate Institute HIB-91 describes the bracing requirements for metal-plate connected trusses. This manual is referenced in the 2000 IRC.

   2000 IRC   R802.10.3 Bracing. Trusses shall be braced to prevent rotation and provide lateral stability in accordance with the requirements specified in the construction documents for the building and on the individual truss design drawings. In the absence of specific bracing requirements, trusses shall be braced in accordance with TPI/HIB.

   Bob

5. 
   BossHog | Feb 23, 2003 03:32pm | #11

   Bob, I know all that stuff. But you're talking about 3 different kinds of bracing there -

   1. Web bracing

   2. erection bracing

   3. Building bracing

   This thread was originally started about building bracing.A penny saved is a Congressional oversight.

6. 
   jet | Feb 23, 2003 04:31pm | #13

   Ok Boss.  shouldn't #2 be over with the stripper thread?

   HeHeHeHeHeI'm all here....... 'cause I'm not all there!

7. 
   jimblodgett | Feb 23, 2003 07:15pm | #14

   I'd like to see more information about erection bracing...just in case.

8. 
   InspectorBob | Feb 23, 2003 07:20pm | #15

   The first message in the thread discussed truss bracing.

   In message 8, you stated  "But no way do I think that there's a legitimate arguement to say that a truss manufacturer should sopecify permenant bracing." It was that statement that prompted my remarks. The truss manufacturer must specify permanent lateral bracing to keep his trusses from collapsing.

   Your characterization of my remarks is inaccurate. I addressed only permanent truss bracing in my message.

   Bob

9. 
   BossHog | Feb 23, 2003 09:15pm | #18

   I don't think you're paying attention to the thread and the messages.

   Of course the truss manufacturer specifies web bracing. No one is questioning that. But those braces are just to keep the webs from buckling.

   But the original poster was talking about overall building bracing within the roof system. I see no reason why the truss manufacturers should specify that.You never really learn to swear until you learn to drive.

10. 
    InspectorBob | Feb 23, 2003 09:21pm | #21

    I don't think you're paying attention to the thread and the messages.

    You're mistaken.

    Bob

11. 
    MikeSmith | Feb 23, 2003 07:32pm | #16

     Boss: not fer nuttin......that's because you don't stamp your truss designs..

    any truss sold in RI has to have stamped prints and  the permanent bracing system has to be shown  and every connector to be used is shown and spec'd.. to the point where we usually buy all our connectors from the truss mfr. as part of the package..

    then the building inspector just looks for compliance with the stamped plan

     another thing i saw you post yesterday was that you've never seen the correct nail used for connectors  or joist hangers...

    while i have seldom seen any but the correct ones used.. and i'd venture to say that any place with good inspection laws will have the same compliance. every metal connector we get has the correct fasteners stamped right on them...

     i get the feeling that you keep projecting your views as to what is accepted practise where you sell your trusses...

    but in a lot of the areas of the country, all of this is well spelled out and enforced

    edit: there is no doubt in my military mind that you know far more about truss design than i will ever know or need to know... but you don't know jack about what is common practise outside of your area

    Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

    Edited 2/23/2003 11:37:10 AM ET by Mike Smith

12. 
    Piffin | Feb 23, 2003 07:52pm | #17

    I have seldom worked with trusses so I'm not offering advice here on bracing them but I wanted to add a comment that in Maine, there was recently a truss set blow down that ended upo with a couple guys hurt and I think one dead. so I just got a piece in the mail from our local version of OSHA about a day of training on how to. Kind of a close thae gate after the cow gets in the neighbors flower garden thing.

    I'm not going but the point is that I'll be betting that national OSHA will be focussing on this issue soon so you can expect to see those detailed instructions coming with every package..

    Excellence is its own reward!

13. 
    BossHog | Feb 23, 2003 09:15pm | #20

    Unfortunately, that isn't the first collapse with a death involved. But it hasn't prompted OSHA to do anything yet, other than fine the contractor(s) involved.

    There are plenty of instructions sent out now, that are largely ignored. The trouble with political jokes is that they get elected.

14. 
    RichBeckman | Feb 23, 2003 10:05pm | #22

    Boss,

    I just read the first post in the thread. It sure looks to me like it is talking about bracing the trusses, not the building. And the second post of the thread (yours!) answers the first post in terms of bracing of the trusses.

    So where does bracing of the building come from???? I'm confused.

    My only experience with this was when I was building a loft in a pole barn. All the trusses had bright red tags in two (4??) places explaining that lateral bracing at those points was mandatory. Of course, there wasn't a single lateral brace anywhere at all. But I was assured that the guy that built it was extremely experienced, very competent and a perfectionist. Maybe all that and illiterate?

    Rich Beckman

    Another day, another tool.

15. 
    BossHog | Feb 24, 2003 06:02am | #25

    Well, I don't know how to explain it offhand. Maybe I'll have to start a "bracing primer" thread, and lay out the differences. I'll think about it Monday sometime.

    In a way, you have a point on the 2nd thread - I did talk about bracing gable webs. That's more personal preference than anything.Never trust a stockbroker who's married to a travel agent.

16. 
    BossHog | Feb 23, 2003 09:15pm | #19

    "but you don't know jack about what is common practise outside of your area"

    And you do? Who made you an expert on what happens all over the country?

    Actually, I don't think I said that was common practice all over the country. I certainly didn't mean it that way if I implied it.

    But even when I worked in the Chicago area, with building inspectors in virtually all the towns, I never once saw hanger nailing questioned or installed right.

    But I'm glad someone somewhere is paying attention. Hopefully more will in the future.Get the facts first. You can distort them later.

17. 
    MikeSmith | Feb 23, 2003 10:52pm | #23

    me, self appointed expert on what's going on in other parts of the country ... that's who..and who on this board  ain't ?

     ackshally...RI is pretty tough.. even with a state-wide code.. some communities way exceed the bounds of common sense..

     but , tough as RI is, it pales to the structural requirements of California.. or metro-NYC... the IBC 2000 will be a big start in bringing national standards into being..

     anyways...my experience.. the builders who deal with the building inspector day in and day out.. are in compliance.. as to nailing schedule and truss bracing..  after a couple of violation notices, they get the message that it's easier to comply before, than fix things afterMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

18. 
    Boxduh | Feb 24, 2003 01:31am | #24

    I am in New York, not in the city but in a little Adirondack town, and trusses hereabouts come with drawings and specs calling out bracing, connections, and fasteners.  It is actually the only aspect of my last job the building inspector paid any attention to, other than our failure to immediately rail off the stairwell hole.