I am starting a bit of research and need a name for a thing-a-ma-jig. I know there is an item which you can put in your panel box up against you main breaker which will cut out power back down your power line when using a generator. It is a manual switch. What is it calls? Then I can do a bit more homework.
Thanks.
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Replies
ok ...
cut out switch or transfer switch..... but I am looking for one that goes inside teh panel box. Do they have a special name? Can't seem to find them with a google.
Two Ways
... to accomplish this.
One is to add a backfeed / interlock device (if available; left in the pic attached) for your brand and model of main panel, the other is to add an interlock switch (right in the same pic) between your meter and the main breaker. Both can be called disconnects so that might be a good place to begin your research.
(You first ought to inquire of your power supply company what they will approve for use in your installation to protect their employees.)
You are talking about a breaker interlock. Some panels will allow installation of a metal interlock that insures you can not turn on a back feed generator breaker when the main breaker is on.
The first thing you need to do is identify your panel and see if there is an interlock kit available. Then you need to have 2 open breaker slots for the back feed breaker.
The other option is a separate generator panel with a transfer switch. That is more work to install but gives you much better load control.
If I may add: One's choice of which system to install is dependent on if the generator will be manually connected and started or will it be an automatic one. I have a manual system in the extreme. I have to wheel the generator out of the garage, connect the power cord, start the generator, go into the main panel and turn off the main power which then allows me to turn on the 30 amp generator disconnect. I also must choose which circuits will remain active which means turning off all the 220 circuits.
If I want to run my well I must disconnect the house entirely and plug in the well which is in a seperate out building.
If this all sounds like a hassle that's because it is. The alternative is to spend a lot of money for something we really don't need for the relatively brief (though frequent) periods we're without power.
Reliable Power
I hear you. I don't wish to spend very much money either. We do not have many power outages PERIOD, and when we do they are very short. But the area has had one or two, two day outages. So, I would like to have something.
This "in the panel" disconnect sounded like a pretty good idea. It would allow you to energize teh entire panel. Obviously you have to track your load if your generator is not huge. But how much do you need keep a blower going on a wood incert, a few lights. You can always turn frig and freezers on and off.
A well is an issue, big start up load.
It sounds like you are on my same track.
I am building my own house and plan to do teh wiring. I hired a guy to pull my main feed lines in some 180 feet from my service enterance into my panels in teh house. I just was not looking forward to pulling teh lines and getting stuck as I had never done it before and had plenty of other head aches at eh time. As it turned out, it looked like a piece of cake. Well it is done. Teh electrical guy mentioned this device for inside the panel box. I had never heard of that set up before, but is sounded very slick.
So I thought I would do a little homework. Thank you. Push come to shove I will call my electrical guy. I try not to bother teh trade people too much as it is, afterall, their livelihood, and they are looking for jobs.
Thanks.
DoRight,
Here is a simple version that's easy to do.
http://www.interlockkit.com/
KK
If you are building a house, that is the time to think about putting in a transfer switch panel with your critiocal circuits split out.
From my viewpoint as a non-electrician: Because both systems will get the job done without spilling electricity out over the floor, either is OK to use. So neither one is a better design in an electrical sense. So to me, it doesn't seem like its a design issue whether the system uses an interlock on the main breaker or a transfer switch. It's more of a planning/use issue. And that criteria is solely up to the guy who is going to be using it.
I'd like to hear the respones to that from the more electric minded individuals here. Although its too late for me to change what we did on our house... I'd still like to know.
When I was making the decision for us, I couldn't understand why I should have to choose just a few "critical" circuits when I knew our generator was capable of powering the whole single-pole bunch. The transfer panels I looked at only had six or so circuits available. Perhaps, if I had to do it all over again, I'd have figured out a way to get all the 120 volt circuits into their seperate panel that was isolated from the two-pole energy hogs. Then I would't have to switch them off. More to the point... someone else wouldn't have to know to switch them off. A point of good design, actually.
Maybe I answered my own question.
Note to doright: Be prepared for sticker shock when you price the lockout panel cover. To go this route you must have the panel manufacturer's cover and they know it.
my thoughts
It seems to me it makes a lot of sense to energize an entire panel rather than have a separate panel for speicifc circuits which would be energized by the generators. One poster here disagrees.
It is no big deal to use your brain and a) flip breakers you do not wish to energize whenteh generator is in use, or b) energize the enitre panel and then only turn on devices in the house that you need and use your brain to not overload the generator capacity.
I have no desire to ahve a whole house up and runing so what do youneed? Well, a few lights ... what is that 500 watts? Frig and separate freezer ... what is that even with start up loads ... what 1000 each? Blower on a zero clearance wood stove ... 500 watts (not sure).
So make the plan and do teh math. Now sure you can forget and use the microwave AND THEN. So it can be a problem.
All good food for thought
Load management may not be as easy as you think, particularly if you have a small generator.
What do you consider a small generator?
?
What do you consider a small generator?
5-6 kw
5 - 6 would be my minimum. Not sure that would present a load issue. A well pump would be the big boggie-man with start up draw. If you had to load the system with the intent to always have available draw for the well it could get tight. Am I missing anything else, or are you thinking your desires for a "comfortable, easy, life" under a blackout condition leaves you with wanting everything without thougt? Thanks
hey Sapwood ...
What lock out panel cover? From what I see so far is that hte interlock goes inside teh panel and sense it is a "lockout" device no locking cover woulld be necessary. Now the price of the lockout device itself might be expensive and a rape situation ... I will soon find out.
I will have two 200 amp panels. So I would expect to place the furnace, heat pump, shop extention breaker, etc. in one panel and then only plumb the other box for teh generator. Still could be an issue if the well pump is in there and a water heater, but those might be the only real hogs which would have to be controled. Of course if you energize every outlet inteh house and three women inthe house try to dry or curel their hair ....... LOL
I went middle ground...
I don't have full automation. I prefer not to. We have a few power blips here and there. Might be a few minutes. Might be 10 minutes. But with recent hurricanes, wet snow taking down lines, etc, we've lost power numerous times over the past few years, with the power being out for a day or for up to a week at a time.
The short blips I dont care about. Losing power for a day in the summer isn't a bother. In the winter? If I'm not home? If the power will be out for several days? That's when I want backup power.
I have a 200A main panel. My own well with 240v pump. An oil funace that provides DHW and feeds whole-house radiant floor heat.
I added an APC backup panel. It was about $400 for all the bits and pieces to wire in the 10-circuit panel.
What I like about it? The panel has a 240v capable circuit, so it can power my well pump. It allows me to prioritize which circuits I prefer to be powered, and it has load shedding. When setting up the panel I include how much wattage my generator can continuously output. If I'm running hard and the well pump kicks on, instead of it overloading and tripping the generator at the generator itself, the APC panel recognizes the overload and it'll shed a lower priority circuit that I designate, say the fridge and freezer, to keep loads within limits. Once the well pump turns off, the fridge/freezer circuits will automatically come back on.
Works really well.
The APC panel can be fully automated. All I'd have to do is connect the generator to my APC panel with a remote start cable, then when the power is lost, after a 30-second delay the APC panel would send a start signal to the generator, start the generator, and my critical circuits would be powered. When power is returned, the APC panel recognizes that and then shuts the generator down. There's no threat of backfeeding power lines out on the street.
Again, I simply choose to not use that auto-start feature. If no one is home and the power went out, I really don't want my generator running unsupervised.
My other reason for going with the APC panel instead of using a simple panel interlock switch is that I didn't want to use the breakers in my main panel as switches. Plus it simplifies things for my family if I'm out of town and the power goes out. Instead of flipping breakers in the basement, all they need to do is go outside and start the generator with the turn of a key and the house comes to life. It's easy. And there's less of a chance for someone to bugger things up.
Different strokes for different folks for sure. The APC panel is what we figured would work best for our situation and our needs.
http://www.apc.com/products/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=UTS10BI