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Brick cleaning with power washer & acid

technoz1 | Posted in Construction Techniques on December 29, 2005 08:30am

Guys what is the best techniques for cleaning brick/stone? I have Lee Brick’s Scottsdale O/S with grey machine cut stone.  My brick layer sent a crew over with a pump sprayer, ladder, power washer, and muriatic acid.  I watched them start by spraying some water then using the sprayer with acid in certain spots, then right away spraying with power washer.  Oh and they didn’t measure the acid at all just put a little in the can and then mixed in water.  When I asked him shouldn’t you start with wetting the brick one section at a time, then spray the acid from the top to bottom, then power wash from top to bottom uniformly he said I was nuts and thats not how it’s done.  Check out these pictures!!One of my keystones has some discoloration can I get rid of this? Any help is appreciated!!!!


Edited 12/29/2005 1:18 am ET by technoz1


Edited 12/29/2005 1:18 am ET by technoz1

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  1. plumbbill | Dec 29, 2005 08:45am | #1

    Your method makes sense to me but hey I'm a plumber.

    Main reason I was replying is that you should cut your pics in 1/2 meaning less kb's they just kill us dial uppers.

  2. 4Lorn1 | Dec 29, 2005 09:06am | #2

    Acid washing walls on a commercial project was an early job I got when I started in construction.

    Way I was taught was to wet the wall to keep the acid from soaking in too deep. Let it drip dry ####few second or so and spray on the acid, diluted per instructions, with a pump-up sprayer. Let set a bit as you spray a 20' section or so and then go back where you started and scrub the wall with a stiff bristled brush. A long handle saves the back.

    Large mortar buildups can be loosened with a paint scraper. one scrubbed a soft rinse is used to wash off the acid and salts released. You don't want to use too strong a stream as it can drive the acid into the brick.

    The wall was allowed to dry for a few days in the Florida sun and then sprayed with a thin sealer.

    I did that job for weeks. Most of it in a steel cage hung from a crane. The building was six stories so seven stories up. Something like 95 feet up. More than enough to ruin the whole day. The view was great.

    One time the crane almost dropped me when the cage caught on the top of the building and came inches from falling off the hook. Safety was less an issue and laborers were cheap to replace. I was tied off to the cage and could have ridden it down to the slab below. Architect was worried the cage might have damaged his slab. After that we rigged a safety line, a choker shackled to the cage and above the ball.

  3. technoz1 | Dec 29, 2005 09:20am | #3

    Resized for the dial-uppers..

    1. Piffin | Dec 29, 2005 11:49pm | #11

      I studied these some more following that suggestion to put my glasses back on and see that the ends of that balcopny are very near the drip line of the two flanking roof. That means you have a good chanc that every rain will be dumping water onto that balcony in greater than normal amounts, unless you use gutters on this job 

       

      Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

  4. Piffin | Dec 29, 2005 09:46pm | #4

    Since they are rtying to rely on the power washer to skip the necessary step of scrubbing with a brush after the acid loosens things up. I have a hard tiem bel;ieving they are geting it clean, and I wouldn't want to see a p[ower wsasher near newly laid masomnry, fearfull that it would cut mortar loose. Bew darn sure they have left weep holes at the base or all thed water is trapped that got driven thru the brickwork. The photos do make it look clean tho - how 'nbout after it's dry, is it still looking clean?

    You have a larger prob;lem though. That roof dedsign is idiotic. The dead valleys to the cednter dormer column will be sure to leak sooner or later

     

     

    Welcome to the
    Taunton University of
    Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
     where ...
    Excellence is its own reward!

  5. Piffin | Dec 29, 2005 09:49pm | #5

    Tw3o more upcoming problems - I se no counter flashing on the copper top over the bay and what's with the projecting joists in front ? They will lead water into the structure. That is a coomon point to find rot and mold ten years hence and have to remove them and destroy interior finishes to get to it.

     

     

    Welcome to the
    Taunton University of
    Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
     where ...
    Excellence is its own reward!

    1. sawzall | Dec 29, 2005 10:21pm | #6

      I think you need to put on your glasses, that bay looks like it's not roofed yet. If it does get copper they are probably waiting for the brick washing to finish, the acid will stain that metal.

      1. Piffin | Dec 29, 2005 11:25pm | #9

        ah-ha 

         

        Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

    2. technoz1 | Dec 29, 2005 11:23pm | #8

      We are going to counter flash once this acid wash is complete.  The projecting joists are for a little balcony.  I have attached some plan pictures what would be the best way to prevent any rot?

      1. Piffin | Dec 29, 2005 11:36pm | #10

        the balcony in plan is a wrought iron which is more typical. They are a welded one piece unit with mounting bolts.How best to avoid rot?The projecting need to be PT to begin with, but they will eventually wich moisture into the structure where it will feed mold. Shrinkage will open gaps around them that will yearly need to be re-caulked, but the wood itself will still act as a wick. Do what you can to keep them from getting wet to begin with. It looks like you are departing from plan to use a wood balconey instead of the wrought iron style in plan, so that implies you pan wood decking over the joists. Cap them with Vycor strips first befort decking it.The roof line is different from the elevatrion drawing too - left of center dormer, which is right way to have avoided that dead valley. 

         

        Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

        1. technoz1 | Dec 29, 2005 11:56pm | #13

          Would it be best to scrap the wood deck? Remove the protrusions and cap it.  Then just go all wrought iron?? Thanks in advance.

          1. Piffin | Dec 30, 2005 12:16am | #14

            certainly would, but the cost would be scary too. Takes a lot of masonry to fill in where the joists come out, and the bolts would have a large mount attached to the structural wall behind what is now finished brick.Those are also made soemtimes out of AL nowdays, to avoid future rust staining. 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          2. peteshlagor | Dec 30, 2005 03:19am | #15

            A couple of months ago, I spent two days at the Miracote factory training.  Thats the stuff they use for cementatious coatings, toppings, stampings, etc.

            It basically was an art class using epoxies, cements, pigments and additives to decorate concrete and concrete derivatives - such as a flexible cement coating on backerboard.

            The information and ideas exchanged between these contractors and company was excedingly valuable.  For instance,

            My deck has a 10 year old composite material that's cracking  and squishy in spots.  I plan on removing the decking, flash and lay sloped 3/4" exterior ply covered by paper and build up as if I were to lay fake stones vertically, using lath.

            The final top coats of the material will be colored to match the house and then lightly saw cut into patterns.  I'll seal the topping and follow with a contrasting grout.  Seal again.

            I can also roll material along the side of the supportive joists to blend in with the decking.  Install soffit underneath. 

            Resulting in a waterproof lightweight patio instead of deck boards.  Maintenance much less.

            Just make sure the slope and flashing are correct.

             

          3. Piffin | Dec 30, 2005 03:48am | #16

            I'm always on the lookout for new high tech solutions, but they still generally fail when they fight aginst or fail to follow general principles. The joists will still shrink and open a gap for water to follow. What does your company offer to deal with that? 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          4. peteshlagor | Dec 30, 2005 10:21am | #18

            I have no company.  I'm retired.  I got my money now and don't have to kiss someone else's #### for theirs any longer.

            Went to the training for fun and ideas.

            I'll have to consider the degree of shrinkage issue in.  Thanks for bringing it up.

             

            Besides the deck issue, the training went into all types & colors of cement slurries applied with hvlp sprayers, rollers, trowels and such.  Or stamped.  Did a lot of stains.

            The epoxies we played with were incredible!  They have these glass prismatic particles added to various colors of epoxies, creatuing three different colors depending from which direction the viewer is looking.  Others are metalic and when oversprayed with a dispersant, creates crackling.  Copper epoxy looked cool like this.

            And then pure black gloss epoxy let to dry for a few minutes and then small amounts of the above glass particles flicked into it created starbursts that set.  Also little drops of color oversprayed with the dispersent, etc.  Ended up looking like fireworks.

            They do this on dance floors, countertops, sometimes shower walls.

            Went over about 9 different sealers and how they look after application.

            The experienced participants spoke of considerable margins.

            http://www.miracote.com

             

  6. Brickie | Dec 29, 2005 10:26pm | #7

    You definately have some reason for concern, but the proof is in the pudding.  It looks to me like the work is first-rate and clean.  If it was smeared up and splattered with mortar and debris, it wouldn't get clean with the scheme they're using anyway.  Now, with that said, I would give them a little grief for using muriatic acid on the stone.  Muriatic acid is impure hydrochloric acid and as the photo shows, can react with some materials like the stone.  They should be using something like Vanatrol or whatever the stone supplier recommends.

    If they are driving in the acid with pressurized water, you'll know it when it dries out for the first time and you'll see a thin white film ("scum").

    1. Piffin | Dec 29, 2005 11:51pm | #12

      Yep, always looks good when wet, like a wet t-shirt contest. 

       

      Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

  7. TTF | Dec 30, 2005 06:38am | #17

    I spent about 10 years as a hod carrier, washign a lot of brick and stone. Here is the way we always did it. 

    • Work top to bottom
    • Wet down the masonry with a hose.
    • Mix muratic acid 1 part to 5 parts water.
    • Brush it on with a long-handled acid brush - do about 10 square feet at a time.
    • Use a wire brush to get anything that won't come off. Keep the wire brush washed off it will corrode away.
    • Spray the area with water an move on to the next one.

    We never did use a power washer, so I am not sure about its application.

    1. Hackinatit | Dec 30, 2005 01:15pm | #19

      I thought you acid wash from bottom to top to avoid streaking below.

      Must be wrong.Troy Sprout

      Square, Level & Plumb Renovations

      1. TTF | Jan 02, 2006 06:17am | #20

        If you have done a good job brushing the brick / stone after striking, it should not be an issue. Really acid is just the final clean. It darkens the joints and any mud left on the face, making it look better. I used to acid wash as we were tearing down the scaffolding, so everything would stay clean.

         

        Edited 1/1/2006 11:33 pm ET by TTF

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