Were adding a wood (treated lumber) porch onto a brick veneer house. We plan on having the mason corbel the brick to carry the rim beam that will be against the house and eliminating most, if not all of the bolts.
Anyone have any objections or see any problem with this approach? The porch is covered but there is still some concern about water and ice getting trapped between the house and rim/beam. I’m thinking a 1/2″ spacer will solve expansion problems. I’d rather just let the water flow through this space, rather than use flashing to prevent it from ever getting back there in the first place.
The front of a the 8′ porch will be carried by 6 x 8 posts that extend 8′ below grade that are resting on a foundation. Well through bolt to the posts and that will be plenty solid to prevent the structure from shaking and walking away from the house. I’m thinking of adding one or two token bolts through the brick and rim joist though.
blue
Replies
Hey Blue,
Hope things are going well for you. I enjoyed meeting you when you where here in Austin.
The house we are working on is going to have some extensive decorative brick work and I have been driving around looking at brick corbels and other features. I saw one small window planter box esssentially attached to the brick facade with an integrated brick corbel. The mortar joints adjacent to the window were all cracked and appeared to have been repointed (very poorly) at least once and the 4" limestone sill was cracked and lifted up nearly 3/4" .
My interpretation of what happened was that offset load was enough to create torsional moment on the edge of the brick facade and therefore created a horizontal force component that cracked the mortar joint and allowed the front of the box to sag and then lifted the window sill.
I could see the same thing happening with the rim joist. The downward load of the deck is offset enough that there may be a horizontal component that could impact the brick facade.
When I saw the planter box, I would never have guessed it would have enough weight to cause that failure. I was suprised. The one main difference is the planter was cantilevered (less than a foot) where your deck will be be supported on the ends. That support may mitigate the creation of a horizontal force component.
Good Luck
Bruce
Edited 5/6/2006 1:13 pm ET by Hiker
Bruce, I had a great time in Austin too and greatly appreciated your generous tour. I have been curious about that house that you were starting in Austin and was greatly disappointed when I tried to click that link the other day and it was dead. I was hoping it was a picture of that house.
I hadn't thought of the torsional movement of the deck. That's why I put this out here...to help me investigate and tweak my idea to make it work right.
The torsion should be minimal, if there is some at all. If we bolt a rim beam, then the only pressure should be downward.
Around here, they corbel out some bricks on and angle all the time to support the poured concrete porches. The difference is that they fill the porch with brick rubble and mortar debris, then sand. I'm sure the sand settles because no one compacts every 6" as they fill. I'm thinking if the corbeld bricks can hold up concrete, it should hold our porch.
Maybe I'll just put more bolts in.
blue
I like the corbel Idea, but I think you need an engineer. You definitely meed some through bolts; through the rim of the hoouse. Without them, the deck will eventually pull the brick veneer loose. This will probably happen in the middle of a large party with alot of movement happening on the deck.
I agree about the torsion pulling the brick off. [Though I am not an engineer.] Also was wondering about the water that goes uninterrupted between the ledger and the house just being funneled into the brick. I suppose it's too late for piers--or half columns of brick or block against the side of the house to support the ledger?
Danno, I don't see any problem with water running down the brick.
The water travels down the brick face no matter how we do the job.
blue
I'd say double or triple up on the brick ties in the area that is to support the deck. I think the deck still needs to be attached to the house though - our code requires it 48" O.C. Goo the bolt holes up good with silicone caulk or similar before inserting the bolts. Don't crank the bolts down too tight or you could likely crack the veneer.
Some building jurisdictions don't allow bolting through a brick veneer although I have seen it work fine in several instances. Pilasters would really be your best bet rather than corbeling out the brick though.
Yes Matt, you and Danno have the right idea. Pilasters should have been formed into the foundation if we wanted to eliminate the bolts. Unfortunatly, I didn't take an active interest into this spec house till I got onsite to frame it and now I'm in design mode.
blue
Blue,
Have you considered the cost comparison of the corbel job vs. just digging down to the foundation level and using wood posts or concrete piers?
Jon Blakemore
RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Jon, excavating to the foudation would be hard at this point but possible. We'd have to hire a backhoe back out there and quite frankly, it'd be much cheaper to just through bolt it on 2' oc.
I think we'll probably just through bolt it on 4' center as mentioned above.
I also happen to agree that using wood posts from the foundation up would be the easiest solution. In fact, when I talked with Frank this morning after I posted this thread, I had already thought of that solution. In the future, if we build a house with a wood deck, we will simply set the wood posts against the foundation as they are back filling. When we get around to building the porch, it will be a simple job to cut them off level and rest the rim beam on them.
blue
I agree with spacing but I wouldn't want to rely on the brick ledger. I don't like any contact at all with the wood. I think I would have solid bolts sticking through the brick and plenty of them, all the way through the framing. Easier for the mason and just like drilling a sill for you.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Yes Hammer, I agree.
When I talk about through bolting, I mean that I'll go through the brick and through the existing rim joist on the main house.
blue