brick paver joints- OK to mix clay/sand?
Hello all, I have to go to the well again and ask for your expertise. Finished a roughly 500 ft/sq. brick paver patio about a month ago. Pavers over levelled sand bed with sand swept in the joints. For the most part, all is well but there are a couple of spots where due to water flow over the surface, the sand in the joints tends to “disappear” out of hte joints. It’s not like there’s a river flowing over it or anything and most areas take the flow OK. Just a couple of particularly troublesome spots (like where water drips off the eaves right on to the brick, for example).
I don’t want to use any of those polymeric sand products ’cause they all say that the existing sand in the joints must be removed, plus it all has to be carefully cleaned from the surface before wetting — not gonna happen.
One thought that occurred to me would be to mix a little clay or bentonite into the sand and sweep that into the tought spots just to give the joint sand a little more “body.”
Is that crazy? Any better way of handling this?
Appreciate any and all suggestions.
“Let’s get crack-a-lackin” — Adam Carolla
Replies
Before I begin I will say I don't have an answer to your clay question.
How wide are your gaps? I beleive they should be very very tight and so I would think it hard to even know if the sand is being washed away.
Secondly, are you worried that the sand is being undermind from beneath the pavers? That could be a real pain and or mess over time.
>>"How wide are your gaps? I beleive they should be very very tight and so I would think it hard to even know if the sand is being washed away.
>>"Secondly, are you worried that the sand is being undermind from beneath the pavers? That could be a real pain and or mess over time.
The joints are as tight as humanly possible, but the pavers I used are made to be ever so slightly irregular, so they don't fit like perfect rectangular tiles would (gives it more of a look of "age" versus modern "perfection"). Gaps are average 1/8".
I'm not too worried about undermining as the underlying sand seems "tight" and despite the joint sand getting washed out, none of the bricks are moving (and we've had some real drenchers of rain storms lately). When I first swept in the sand I hosed it down and kept sweeping sand until it wouldn't take anymore to fill any potential low spots. Maybe I should be worried about it? ;-)
"Let's get crack-a-lackin" --- Adam Carolla
I do not have an answer as to what might stay in the cracks, but do not use bentonite. It is really expansive when it gets wet and also very slippery and sticky. You may have some luck with a crushed granite or limestone as both tend to pack real well.
Good luck,
Bruce
>>"You may have some luck with a crushed granite or limestone as both tend to pack real well.
Thanks, I might try the crushed granite. My concern with the limestone would be lime stains -- efflorescence type stain. Does that only occur with bag lime -- would the natural crushed lime not stain you think? If so, that might be exactly what I'd like to get in there.
"Let's get crack-a-lackin" --- Adam Carolla
What you describe is normal. The sand slips down the joint when it rains. Periodically add sand to replace that which has gone south. Eventually, the joints will be full and packed tight, locking the bricks in place.
What you describe is normal. The sand slips down the joint when it rains. Periodically add sand to replace that which has gone south. Eventually, the joints will be full and packed tight, locking the bricks in place.
That's the current plan unless I can come up with something else. It's just a little weird as other patios I've done, the joints became "stable" after a few rains. Maybe I'm just impatient on this one. Thanks.
"Let's get crack-a-lackin" --- Adam Carolla
Its a non issue.
Ive installed hundreds of patio's and have never had to go back to fix or repair due to the lack of sand between the joints.
Like Mudslinger said.... Add some more sand if you dont like seeing the gaps.
Make it nice and pretty then. Get some nice silica sand....
There are even some really cools sands... reds or blacks you could use. Although those are really an abrasive they use for sand blasting
GoodLuck
>>"Ive installed hundreds of patio's and have never had to go back to fix or repair due to the lack of sand between the joints.
>>"Like Mudslinger said.... Add some more sand if you dont like seeing the gaps.
Maybe I am getting obsessive about it. I've only done a few patios, but this is the first one where the joints don't seem to hold the sand. Maybe it is in the type of sand I got. Does seem to have a very high percentage of fines. Maybe different sand would do the trick.
"Let's get crack-a-lackin" --- Adam Carolla
mix diluted buttermilk with the clay/sand and you may grow moss in the joints
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>>"mix diluted buttermilk with the clay/sand and you may grow moss in the joints
Now that's something different. This one is actually my own patio so I may have some lattitude. If my better half will go along, that might be a solution and a little bit of a different "look."
"Let's get crack-a-lackin" --- Adam Carolla
Edited 9/16/2006 6:47 am ET by philarenewal
shucks, I thought it was beer and yogurt
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That might work too............drink the beer while schmushing yogurt and sand in the joints![email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
Why can't you just mix in a little mortar mix with the sand?
I tried that maybe 10 years ago in a couple of small areas, swept the mixture into the joints, sprinkled it down. No problems with sand washing out of the joints.
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"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
>>"Why can't you just mix in a little mortar mix with the sand?
I want to avoid any portland or lime stains on the brick so I've been shying away from that. I s'pose I could acid wash the brick if it stained. Hmm . . . maybe it will come to that.
"Let's get crack-a-lackin" --- Adam Carolla
Now I remember what happened.I swept sand between the joints in the usual fashion, but after a month or two, and several rain storms, a noticeable amount washed away.So, I mixed in very small amount of mortar mix with the sand -- maybe a handful or two in a bucket of sand -- and swept it in.It was such a small amount, there was no staining on the bricks. Must have formed enough of a crust though, that it prevented the sand from washing away in the rain.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
copy that.
the mortar mix works every time.
staining isn't an issue.
carpenter in transition