was considering how to put brick pavers over my wood deck in a sound way?
i have sturdy, 2 ft high deck floored with 2 x10’s and is looking tired but in great shape, 20 yrs old but level and no rot. good air flow under the deck. going to build a screened in the porch over the deck. was thinking I could lay pavers in tight, no sand or glue. rot is the primary concern. a friend suggest roofing felt under the pavers. need opinions??
live in central north carolina
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Replies
seriously?
"When the spirits are low, when the day appears dark, when work becomes monotonous, when hope hardly seems worth having, just mount a bicycle and go out for a spin down the road, without thought on anything but the ride you are taking." — Sherlock Holmes, 1896
sure. i would not have posted it if i had not given it some thought and realized it is unconventional. trying to think outside the box and how to make it work without pouring a slab. $$$$ it is potential rot problem but it will be covered with an overhanging eave.
No one has even asked about the structure because it's just not a good idea.
I just finished a full 12X17 deck for my next door neighbour because he wanted to put a 3 season porch on his old deck. It to was sound and no rot. But the structure was never built to with stand that weight. The engineers came up with the proper structure.
I would guess that your deck was never built to hold that kind of weight that you wish to add. The very least would be to get a structural engineer or at least the local building inspector ans see if it's ok.
It’s actually a great idea. Built a few of these. No potential for rot with our design
thinking pavers meaning bricks here. So I was thinking weight.
"When the spirits are low, when the day appears dark, when work becomes monotonous, when hope hardly seems worth having, just mount a bicycle and go out for a spin down the road, without thought on anything but the ride you are taking." — Sherlock Holmes, 1896
understand about the weight. im an engineer and the current structure is not adequate now and will require strengthening or even replacing. was trying to be brief in the description.
fyi, you can almost treat the loading like a slate roof. brick is lighter weight than stone and was planning to use a few cubes of thin pavers i already have. just wondering about construction methods to accomplish the look of a very nice floor. that is one negative about about fine homebuilding, sometimes the stuff you want is not in the budget so your wheels get to turning.
just wondering about construction methods to accomplish the look of a very nice floor
And, you've started the correct way, as a thought exercise first. Too many will post here having already started 1/3 or 1/3 the project before asking the questions (like "will my3.5" patio slab hold up a roofed-in porch, and how do I stop it from wobbbling now that it's half-framed?").
Now, my first thought is: Have you measured from the deck to the door(s) accessing or planned to access this area?
You might not have enough vertical depth for pavers or brick. But, you might for terra cotta or saltillo tile or the like, after enough underlayment (and requisite structure) are in place.
Often, there are few things as complicated as a "simple" screen porch. Subtle things, like the kneewals have to be weather-tight on both sides, and the floor has to be able to handle standing water (or ice in some climes). All while being built with elegant, easy-to-maintain materials, presumably not costing royal ransoms.
Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Just a thought here, but I would be inclined to say that you should pull off the old decking and put down 2 layers 1/2 - 3/4 ply, then hardiboard set in thinset floowed by a membrane set in Thinset that wraps 6" up the walls, and thin "brick" tile. I like the kind that comes in sheets. This all assumes that your deck frame is SOLID. i.e., no rot! Solid footings are a must. No cinder blocks. I'm still concerned about drainage, though. You should have a good amount of overhang on the roof past the edge of the deck. If you do get water, you need for it to have some way to escape. You might be able to find a low spot and install a floor drain. I would make sure it drains away from the house and the underside of the deck.
Basically, I think what you need is a giant shower pan.
Somebody else please chime in. I'm not really an expert in this area.
>>"trying to think outside the box and ...."Sometimes that can be a good thing -- like when you're trying to find a new decorator scheme for the powder room.But when you're thinking that a few centuries of building technology results should be discarded, well there's just a chance that you're gonna hurt yourself.First, it's likely in my opinion, that if your deck has no current roof, it has an insufficient foundation to carry a roof load. If that's the case, then you need to start this project by demolishing the deck.Second, it's likely that your deck framing was not done with the assumption that the flooring material would add about 25 pounds per square foot of dead load. Although this might not be a problem, you can't know without help from an engineer (or at least an experienced builder).Third, as others have mentioned, just laying brick on top of wood will trap moisture under the brick, and that will cause rot. If you want a hard-surface floor, do the research, learn the right way -- or hire a pro.I won't be laughing at the lies when I'm gone,
And I can't question how or when or why when I'm gone;
I can't live proud enough to die when I'm gone,
So I guess I'll have to do it while I'm here. (Phil Ochs)
He is an engineer.
If you are going to enclose the deck and make a screened in porch, why not tile the floor instead of pavers? My boss did this. Put down some 1/2 inch cement board and tiled away.
With pavers I would be concerned about the weight over time and the fact that the floor isn't really sealed in the event of moisture.
I wouldn't use felt.
Webby
So what did he do to deal with water?
Just let it soak in to rot things?
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Yeah, pretty much although he did have the trusses made with quite a bit of overhang on the wether side. 18 inches I think. Although no dispute here kerdi and your advice would have been better.
I wonder sometimes about things like that. We did a nice shower for a client, and applied 12 inch hardie to the studs, didn't tape or coat the seams and used a premixed product to adhere 12x12 porcelain to the walls.Webby
Can’t do that in Michigan if you want it to last. Much better with brick or pavers
was this intended to be entertaining, or was it an accident?
Layers of felt paper will only trap the water that blows in thru the screen on the wind. The assemblage will restrict the air flow that currently prevents these from rotting. Foot t5raffic on the pavers will wear thru the tarpaper in a year or two.
you need a smooth base, such as topping with plywood, then schulters exterior version of Kerdi type membrane made for this application that provides water proofing and a drainage plane to shed the water without trapping it.
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Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
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I would suggest you use 18" or 24" concrete pavers on 1/2" high plastic spacers that are usually used on membrane decks to provide a drainage plane. In your case they will allow airflow to the existing wood decking to keep it from deteriorating. I did a deck surfaced this way over a two car garage. Coupled with stainless steel railing there is very little maintenance. The pavers add about 20lbs psf. I'll leave that to you.
The deck must be pitched 1" in 10' for drainage.
Pull up the subfloor and replace it with one layer of 3/4" ply, followed by a layer of 1/2" ply. Stagger the joints and run the face grain of the two layers of plywood perpendicular to each other.
Put Blueskin membrane on the plywood.
Now bed a layer of 1/2" CBU in thinset (this is just to fill any hollows; it won't stick to the Blueskin) and screw it down using the proper cement-board screws. Place screws on 8" centers, along both axes.
On top of that lay DITRA membrane, following Schlüter's instructions on how to do that.
On top of the DITRA you can lay any stone or tile you like, in the usual way. If you really want to use brick pavers, that's fine, but grout them and seal them.
BTW, the wall of the screened porch at the 'bottom' of the deck pitch must be equipped with weep holes thru the plate, and the plate itself should be made of rot resistant material such as hemlock or cedar.
Schluter sells a trim package for the edge of this kind of deck to cover the multiple layers and permit drainage where required. If you don't use theirs, you will have to have some custom flashings made up.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
foolish men call Justice....
I'm doing pretty much the same thing.A front balcony over a first floor vestibule and porch, the balcony is about 16' wide by 13'6" deep.Joists are pitched for drainage in two directions, first a slight pitch away from the house, coupled with the joists towards the center of the balcony being held higher on the ledger than the perimeter rim joists. So I get drainage from center-to-side, as well as away from the house.I used two layers of 5/8" ply, covered that with Grace while I'm waiting and waiting and waiting for the concrete to arrive and be poured down at ground level. Once the concrete is in, I'll set the permanents posts and then detail the rest of the balcony:1/2" CBU thinsetted and screwed over the Grace.Ditra over the CBU.Kerdi to seal the Ditra seams, Kerdi to seal the ditra to the drip edge with sealant between Kerdi and metal drip, Kerdi run up the off the Ditra and on to the sidewall of the house to seal off the ledger.Tile.
Yep, that'll work.
Secondary benefit of doing it this way is you get dry storage underneath. It's a roof as well as a floor....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I was getting ready to post a response, but I noticed Dinosaur pretty much said what I was thinkin'. You'll need to incorporate a completely waterproof membrane between the pavers and the deck or it'll just rot out from trapped water. Even tho' it'll be covered, water will still blow in and run down between the bricks. Schluter is just the ticket.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Everything fits, until you put glue on it.
The thing you need to understand about brick, like other masonry or cementous material is that it is inherently damp - by nature.
Once you got the possible structural issues out of the way, I think you would experience warping of the substrate - the decking boards - which would make your pavers not lay flat, Then there is the rot issue.
Brick over wood deck
Not only can it be done, but My company has done this numerous times.
Factors that must be addressed:
1. is the deck framing adaquate to support the weight?
2. what is the weight of the thin pavers, patio stone or brick pavers per sq. ft.
3. methods to avoid future rot of substructure.
While the brick adds weight to the structure, it usually is only 25 lbs per square foot for full pavers or patio stone. Thinner stone will require less support. This can often be overcome by placing joist closer together during initial construction or adding joist between existing joist on existing construction. It is essential that you consider the attachment of the ledger board to the house and how the joist are supported on the areas away from the house.
The basic concept is build a strong under carriage (2x10 or 2x12 at 12" OC) depending upon the span to have positive flow away from the structure by aprroximately 1" in 12'. Place 4x6 or 6x6 vertical support posts at all critical support locations with proper fasteners and adequate bearing points. We always place 3/4" treated plywood over the entire deck surface with a one piece rubber membrane to blanket the entire structure. This will make the area under the deck leak free. Then membrane is secured with termination bar and custom spacers are installed which hold a 2x face board out away from membrance to allow for drainage. This face board also acts as the edging for the stone or brick surface. Patio stone or brick surface is friction fit in place (no adhesives or bonding agents) and baby sand is placed over and between the brick or patio stones.
Obviously there are more details to consider but this is the basic concept. If done correctly, your undercarriage of your structure will be protected from the weather from the top and extend the longevity of your structure many times beyond thier normal life. In addition, you will achieve a dry area under the deck. Brick or stone pavers only require washing from time to time...fading issues are no longer a problem.
Fire pits can be placed on these type of decks without concern of burns and the brick stays cooler on hot summer days.
This is the classiest finished surface available with the least amount of maintenance needed.
For more information you can visit http://www.gallagherdesigninc.com or call 616-822-7318.
Simple to place Brick or Pavers over Wood Deck Structure. http://www.gallagherdesigninc.com or email [email protected] or call John Gallagher at 616-822-7318.
Call for details
Call me at 616-822-7318
I noticed a problem in your building process having to do with rot