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Brothers Building Woes & Liknstikbrik

loucarabasi | Posted in General Discussion on September 23, 2007 01:46am

My Brother is having a 15,000sq ft single story commercial building built. Stick frame, trusses, all wood. yada yada! I kick my self in the teeth for not building it myself(with subs of course) but the wife was sick and my boys were just born. It was too much on my plate. Its really bothering me becouse the quality of work is bad and my brother has been asking me to go over and point out all the blunders. I dont want to step on toes, but this is my Brother and he is spending 2.4 million on this. The job super has been with the company for only six months, so he just wants to meet the dead line. I am doing all the millwork and trim. I dont want to make waves becouse I’ll be there for 1 month. But stuff is bad (I’m going today, ) Please guys give me some advice on how to handle this.  BTW whats the deal with this lick and stick brick (with the metal sheat that goes on first stuff) My mind is racing and I’m pissed I didn’t take the job!!!

Thanks guys, I know you guys will give me some good advice  -LOU


Edited 9/23/2007 1:06 pm ET by loucarabasi


Edited 9/23/2007 1:07 pm ET by loucarabasi

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  1. Stilletto | Sep 23, 2007 02:31pm | #1

    There are two seperate but equal issues here.  Family and business.  They need to stay serperate.  Family+business=emotions.  THats when it gets ugly. 

    Talk with your brother on the issues that you see need fixing.  Do this with just you and him around.  Don't show up gung ho in front of everyone. 

    Let him know that you are in the order of subs here and the careless building will cost him more money.  Extra fillers,  scribes etc..   in your case.  Not to mention delays in the schedule if they screw something up structurally. 

    After the slap together guys leave make a list with your brother and make them fix it.  But give them a chance to finish unless it's a train wreck at this point. 

    Good luck on this one,  it's a fine line.  Keep it that way.    

     

    Matt

  2. BUIC | Sep 23, 2007 07:01pm | #2

      My gut reaction is to say go evaluate the building yourself after hours. Give your brother your thoughts.

       Now that he's well informed have him hire a "third party" to evaluate and report.

      If it's in line with what you found he can take that to the GC. It keeps you out of it, and lets you still function around the GC and subs. without animosity directed towards you.

      And they won't be able to attribute the list of problems to an overly critical family member who has an agenda of some sort.  2 cents...buic

    1. User avater
      loucarabasi | Sep 23, 2007 08:04pm | #3

      I'm gonna keep my mouth shut and do what I'm hired to do. And let the chips fall where they may.

      LMC

      1. john7g | Sep 23, 2007 08:19pm | #4

        You could be hired by to act as a contractor providing QA inspections.  Make a list, use pictures or whatever necessary to define the issues clearly and probably give an idea of what it's supposed to look like.  Let you brother use the list while keeping you anonymous. 

      2. BUIC | Sep 24, 2007 12:07am | #6

          Okay, now I'm officially confused.

          "Its really bothering me becouse the quality of work is bad and my brother has been asking me to go over and point out all the blunders. I dont want to step on toes, but this is my Brother and he is spending 2.4 million on this."

          You posted that and now this,

        "I'm gonna keep my mouth shut and do what I'm hired to do. And let the chips fall where they may." 

          Something change between then and now or did I completely miss the point of your first post???  buic

        1. User avater
          loucarabasi | Sep 24, 2007 04:34am | #7

          Buic, There is a ton of millwork in this place (cabinet and millwork is my business). They are gonna know these comments came from me weather I say It or my brother does. Were pretty well known in this area and they all know I am super fussy. (I'm not tooting my horn either). I gotta work with these guys for awhile and I've decide to just point out the really bad stuff. Believe me I would love to go in and really ream people out, especially the framing crew ( they shot the sh#t out of everything but like 60% of all nails aren't sunken) Sprayed on corner bead!!! Please for 2.4mil, Vinyl windows w/return rock, Come on!!!, Lick and stick brick, I'm just venting buic sorry!!!

          Thanks anyway, Lou

          1. MikeSmith | Sep 24, 2007 04:48am | #8

            lou.... for 2.4 mil.. your bro can spend some money on professional advice .. and maybe a " clerk of the works"

            what about getting someone like Jay to come down once a week and meet with the builder ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

          2. User avater
            loucarabasi | Sep 25, 2007 03:55am | #10

            Mike, whats (clerk of the works)?

            -Lou

          3. User avater
            Jeff_Clarke | Sep 25, 2007 06:30am | #11

            Project manager.

             

            Jeff

          4. Piffin | Sep 25, 2007 01:33pm | #12

            more of an owner's advocate/inspector - he does not take care of management duties 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          5. MikeSmith | Sep 25, 2007 01:44pm | #13

            LOU....  Clerk of the Works is often used on complicated projects

            a  2.4 mill.  house is a complicated project

            usually the COW will have his own office on  job of that size..... often shared with the Architect or Project Superintendent

            he is paid by  the Owner  and works under a contract that stipulates his duties, authority, compensation..

            he usually makes a weekly written report of the job and keeps a daily log

            he has his own copy of the Plans , Specifications, and Change Orders.... he reviews billing

            he works for the Owner.. not the Architect or the Builder

            he should be very knowledgeable, experienced, tactful, and have unquestioned integrity

            often the COW is a retired person

            sounds like something you should have had on the job from day #1..... but it's not too lateMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

          6. User avater
            Jeff_Clarke | Sep 25, 2007 05:03pm | #15

            Construction industry (commercial) would call him an Owner's Representative then.

             

            Jeff

          7. MikeSmith | Sep 25, 2007 08:00pm | #16

            might be regional too.... in this area most public projects utilize a COW ...

            so a town..... or a Public Building Authority would have one for sure

            he becomes the eyes and ears of the owning entityMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

          8. Piffin | Sep 25, 2007 11:54pm | #18

            I have not been on that much commercial work at this level, but every one I was on - that guy was called "clerk of the works" and he worked directly for the owner as his rep. 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          9. User avater
            loucarabasi | Oct 01, 2007 04:15am | #19

            Mike, let me give you some background. last year when the plans were finished I had alot going on; My wife in her 28th of pregnancy with twin boys was diagnosed with hodgkins. She gave birth to the boys who are 15 months and doing great and so is the wife she has been clear since december. My brother wanted me to GC the job, we had built his previouse office building 6 years ago. At the time I just had to be with my family ( wife started chemo 2 weeks after giving birth.) I just could'nt do it. And now that the job is underway and the family is well. Its eating me up over the butcher work. The HVAC system was so called upgrade to 8 zones forced air @ 80% effeciency. The original units were 93's. I'm just gonna put my head down and plow thru and get my millwork for the job done. Its all I can do. Why are these commercial jobs all the same. 80% of the work gets done in the last 20% of time?

            Sorry for babbling on, Its sunday I should be relaxed

            Lou

          10. MikeSmith | Oct 01, 2007 06:05am | #20

            you boys and wife are what's important..... hope you enjoyed your Sunday with themMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

          11. BUIC | Sep 24, 2007 05:17am | #9

              Believe me I understand. Venting is good for your mental health.

              I'm a 53 year old finish carpenter. Trust me I feel your pain. <g>

              Good luck holding your tongue and trimming out that sows' ear...buic

  3. FastEddie | Sep 23, 2007 08:31pm | #5

    Why isn't the architect catching the problems?

    "Put your creed in your deed."   Emerson

    "When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it."  T. Roosevelt

  4. Dave45 | Sep 25, 2007 04:38pm | #14

    Before you make too many waves, have a quiet discussion with the PM and ask for some explanation of what you're calling "bad work".  There may be more going on than you're aware of.

    I'm in a somewhat similar situation right now.  My best friends girlfriend is doing a big remodel and addition.  I'm a smalltime GC and the job is way beyond my capabilities, but they're always asking me about the job.  So far, the GC has had good reasons for everything anyone has questioned.  My role has been more of a translator than a QA inspector. - lol

  5. bobbys | Sep 25, 2007 11:25pm | #17

    Lou , I cant imagine what it would be like for the super to hear from a relative that admits hes a super fussy trim carpenter. I understand you did not bid the job i have felt that too, Your doing the trim i think you need to step back and grin and bear it, I dont think your being completely fair compiling about aspects of the job, They must have bid it and your brother accepted it, Or did they switch details????, I have never met a trim carpenter happy about the framers in my life. Are you working for your brother or subbing to the GC,???? Seems either way there may be a conflict there

  6. DanH | Oct 01, 2007 06:08am | #21

    You know, it occurs to me that when someone's dropping that kinda money on a house they should hire an independent construction manager/inspector/whatever to make sure that nothing is effed up.

    Probably a business opportunity there.

    If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
    1. DougU | Oct 02, 2007 05:07am | #22

      independent construction manager/inspector

      When I lived in TX that was common on the more expensive houses.

      Doug

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