Hello,
I’m new to the Breaktime, but have been a long-time reader/subscriber to FH.
Are there any builder / inventors here?
I invented the CordSnake, a tool to keep power tools and extension cords connected.
I’ve done the whole invention-marketing song and dance and know the terrain.
I’m putting together a builders-inventors group to help individuals with the process.
Let me know if you’re interested.
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Replies
I could be interested. I have a product that I have invented that might be worth pursuing further. You can contact me at [email protected]
Let's not confuse the issue with facts!
I've got my name on about a dozen patents, but they're all owned by my employer, and most of them are so technical that even I can't understand them.
I have ideas for a number of tools, but I know nothing of the process. So I'd be interested in hearing from people who have already done it.
I'm starting a builders-inventions group soon.
Let me know if you're interested.
I've had several invention/entrepreneurial ventures.
I have learned in the School of Hard Knocks.
There are many creative and inventive people in the trades.
It's all about daily problem-solving.
But the actual process of inventing is tricky.
You can lose a lot of time and money..
I know.
I am building a site where the invention process is laid out in easy to follow steps.
For instance, you can protect your idea right away by starting an Inventor's Notebook.
This needs to be a bound notebook with sequentially numbered pages.
You write down and draw your idea as best as possible.
Then have someone else sign and date it.
Jot down all your new developments and changes to the original idea and have these also witnessed and signed.
There's no need for patenting until later.
Save your money.You can contact me at [email protected]
Check out the web site when you have time
Mike, I would be interested send me an e-mail [email protected]
Mike,
Looks like a great product.
Not that you started this thread as a means of advertising your product, but the forum rules and regs are pretty specific against such.
You might want to delete the link from your post.
Welcome to Breaktime.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
I wasn't aware of that rule. I just edited my post to delete the web site address.
Thanks for the heads up.
Thanks for mentioning that JD - appreciate the helpJustin Fink - FHB Editorial
Your Friendly Neighborhood Moderator
No problem....it didn't seem as though he were intending to advertise....but I didn't want him taking a hit for something he may not have realized he was doing.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Cool product, Mike. My brothers father in law developed, about 30 years ago, the little quarter-sized plastic hanger you get with a pair of socks. No kidding, Conover Plastice, Conover,N.C. was the only manufacturer of that little deal for several years. He really did well with that one little product.
Me, I had my money in the slide rule business ! !
Greg
Me, I had my money in the slide rule business ! !>>I had mine on the abacusCreation arises, is sustained for awhile, and then things change. That’s the dance.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
"
"
Me, I had my money in the slide rule business ! !>>
I had mine on the abacus"
I received a cartoon, pre Y2K, showing some Roman -types saying:
"Zounds", (looking at an abacus)...what happens when it goes to MMXX" or something like that!
...well it was funny then. (and yes,I know you can't tell time when looking at an abacus)
"If 'tis to be,'twil be done by me."
Edited 10/30/2006 7:44 pm by Philter
It's not advertising if someone asks for it. I'd like a link to your website to have a look at your product, if you don't mind. You can email it to me if you'd like. Just click on my name at the top of the post and then click 'send email'. Thanks.
OK, email is on its way
Besides the fact that you asked for it, Mike readily, quickly, and happily removed the link because someone not even a moderator suggested that it might violate the board rules.IMO that shows the right intention.Let the mods warn me if they want to.;o)http://cordsnake.com/~~~With a caveat to Mike... I gave my opinion already. And I am pretty sure this link will not be deleted. But I would warn you against too much posting that might eventually be taken by TPTB as a sideways attempt to take advantage of free advertising.Just a little common sense and remembering that there are mfgr's that pay to advertise with Taunton, who read this forum, and can get a little upset if they feel someone is trying to get free advertising. Whether that is truly the case or not, it's the appearance that has to be considered.=0)
Never mind that kink in my slinky
I advertised the CordSnake in FH back in 2004. I placed color ads that ran for three months. This was part of my learning experience. The ads were not cheap. I went to the National hardware Show in Las Vegas last April and talked to a number of builders with inventions. I know how difficult the process is. That's why I want to talk with other builder-inventors about more of a co-op approach to marketing. The current vertically integrated big-box retail industry is not at all friendly to the lone inventor with a great idea. My local lumber yard was bought up by a large national retail chain. The store manager wants to carry the CordSnake, but company policy is against dealing with single-item vendors. I've learned a lot about the invention business and I have a few solutions up my sleeve. I've also been a long-time reader and subscriber to FH.
It's an excellent idea. And sorely needed.Any "inventor's helper" that I have ever seen up to this point, is in the end... there to help the "helper" and screw the inventor. They work mostly from the angle of pride. Just like those who go around offering to print books with people's geneology, family pictures, etc, in them. They convince someone that they are part of an extraordinary family. Destined to be part of history. Everyone will want a copy of this book. This cannot be allowed to be lost. Etc... That 'someone' has to want to be convinced, of course. But any inventor is naturally already convinced that his invention has merit.The "inventor's helpers", convince the inventor that they have the next best thing to sliced bread. Charge them out the wahoo for the services, legal, patent, etc... and in the end, if the idea actually has any merit at all, someone else has it on the market sooner. But the "IH" make their money from the boners, not from the winners.Your co-op approach, if it actually works, holds great promise. But the idea could easily become the victim of greed. As for instance, true communism is a great idea. But it does not work, and cannot work because of individual greed. The result when communism has been tried has been worse than dictatorship.I wish you all the luck in the world. And I believe you'll create a lot of that luck yourself. (What's that saying about "the harder I work, the luckier I get" ?)=0)Hey, Craigslist works. In spite of the sort of greed that usually drags something like that down. Not everything that CAN be dragged down, IS dragged down. Good luck.=0)
Never mind that kink in my slinky
I've done the whole process from the idea in the head to marketing, and marketing is the hardest. Sure, there's all kinds of 'let-me-help-you (er, myself)' invention marketing services out there that prey on the newbie inventor with stars in his eyes. Inventing anything is a calculated risk and you don't know the costs up front. There are more unknown factors than in a remodel project; that alone should put anybody on notice.
I will soon have a web site up which will function as a central location. Individual builder-inventors can provide a photo and short text, and there will be a link to that individual's own web site. This will allow interested buyers to look over a number of inventions by builders. This is a unique category. Our inventions have been developed in the field and tested on our construction sites. Ultimately this can lead to a marketing catalog of sorts.
The big-box retailers do not want to deal with single-item vendors. A group can offer a larger assortment of products, PLUS, our inventions are 'field-tested and verified'.. This is goos for marketing.
I can't provide the link to this web site here, but you can email me for that.
Also, I will offer a free mini-course in protecting and developing your invention.
That's not going to happen until January, because I'm a working contractor and I'm busy.
But I have put a lot of time into this and I understand the terrain.
Contact me if you're interested.
I'm very interested in joining such a forum. I have a number of ideas but the books I have read on getting your invention to market convinced me against it. I contacted an "inventor firm" but they were a bunch of shysters, they couldn't even tell me a single invention they had taken to market.<!----><!----><!---->
Put me on the list [email protected]<!----><!---->
Thanks<!----><!---->
Make sure you record your ideas in an Invention Journal and have it signed regularly by a third party.
The BuildersInventions web site will be up in a month.
Gawain,I sent an email to the address you posted, but it was returned.
Go ahead and email me directly at;
[email protected]
Thanks
You're right about the omnipresent greed factor. That's part of our Mammon-worshipping culture that increasingly knows the price of everything, and the value of nothing. Inventors work for pride. There's a big rush in getting and developing an idea. However, this can also lead to major headaches and financial troubles. All the invention marketing companies feed the inventor's (mistaken) assumption that his idea is God's way of rewarding him. Inventors need a 'cold-shower' reality check at the onset of their venture, otherwise it may cost them more than they bargained for.How many remodel projects have unexpected problems?...........
and that's an area we all know.
Invention-marketing is like a remodel project, and can turn into a 'money pit'.I want the BuildersInventions association to create a win-win situation for builder-inventors.
Email me if you want to be kept in the loop.
[email protected]
That's why I want to talk with other builder-inventors about more of a co-op approach to marketing.
Okay...talk.
blueOur Skytrak is for sale. It has 500 hrs on it. We want 50k (you pay the freight) and we'll finance it. Drop me an email; it's a good buy.
see my response to Luka below
Good thread Mike.
Could you email me your address?
blue
Our Skytrak is for sale. It has 500 hrs on it. We want 50k (you pay the freight) and we'll finance it. Drop me an email; it's a good buy.
I have one invention to my credit but it is for a snowboard binding. Keep me posted tho.
And in response to concerns for being deleted I would like to point out that the EZ guide is still going strong on this forum.
Then you already know how difficult the invention-marketing process is.
Email me directly if you want to be kept in the loop.
One big advantage that small inventors have now vs 20 years ago is the Internet. If you can get a modicum of "word of mouth" advertising, and maybe be written up in a couple of trade rags, you can sell your product relatively efficiently via the Internet. Folks will buy a product on impulse on the Internet when they would never get around to it via mail-order.
In fact, probably one of the best ways for small inventors to work together would be to use a common web site for a number of related products. Folks who go looking for one would browse around checking out the others.
Today's retail market is increasingly monopolized by the 900 lb gorillas. It's not the family-run local lumberyard anymore. The internet offers people the opportunity to create an alternative.
Having said that, the internet is also full of shysters, bs artists, con artists, etc.
So you have to use your judgment.
I'd like to see a 'Builders-Inventors Association' that will provide a meium for builders to:
A: develop their ideas from inception to completion B: test their ideas and evaluate their ultimate profitability C: keep costs to a minimum D: create a group approach to marketing.Contact me by email if you want to be kept in the loop.
You're right about that. The internet offers folks an alternative to the big-box retailer monopoly lock on product distribution. I have spent a lot of time and money to understand the reality of this. I want to do an end run around the gorillas.The BuildersInventions site will be up soon. There will be links to various inventions by builders which are currently on the market.
I'm a builder/inventor. Guess I should say ex-builder. My invention(it's a tool) is now a full time job plus more. Couple of things people should know. The inventing process is easy. The patent process is easy. The marketing process is hard!! Only 1 to 3 percent of every patent issued is ever commercialized or makes money. I'm not trying to talk anybody out of their dream, but it is tough. I don't know how many times along the way I've thought about throwing the towel in.
Another way to protect your idea before the patent is to write and draw your idea as you said, but seal it in an envelope and mail it back to yourself by registered mail. Do not open it. Keep for your records with seal on it. As you said, document everything you do in a notebook.
I'll be glad to help you if I can.
There's also a "provisional patent application" or some such that you can file, wherein you describe your invention to the Patent Office but it doesn't get run through the process there. It establishes that you had thought of the invention on that date, so that if you later get a true patent you can use the provisional application to establish priority.As I understand it, this is cheap and easy to do, and may be a good idea if you're going to shop your invention around. But it's rarely used, so I suspect that there are drawbacks.
Seven blunders of the world that lead to violence: wealth without work, pleasure without conscience, knowledge without character, commerce without morality, science without humanity, worship without sacrifice, politics without principle. --Mahatma Gandhi
First you should use the informal 'invention journal', or the sealed letter.
Once you have your idea complete, then file for the Provisional Patent Application.
This gives you one year grace period in which to file your actual patent.
It's a difficult process, and the marketing is the hardest. Most inventors believe that the buyers will rush to buy their product. NOTis your product on the market?
Mike,
It has been on the market for almost 2 years and we're doing okay. It's called EasyCoper http://www.easycoper.com and I'm sure a lot of FH readers have seen the ad.
I just saw the ad and I'm going to order one.
Your idea is just what I'm talking about with builders-inventions.
Let me know if you want a link on the new web site.
It's free.
A builder-inventor association can only help with marketing.
Mike,
Of course I would like a link on the website you're putting together. And again if I can be any help let me know.
I just orderd one from your web site. I look forward to checking it out on the job.
I have been told that trick before but fail to see how it would be valid unless there was something to actually date the item. It is no real stretch to steam something open and put something in later. I would think that putting a sealed copy with an atty (:-( with the copy notarized would have a lot more clout.
Here in St. paul, Minneapolis....
Last Sundays paper featured a kid that labels himself "inventor for Hire"
If you have the Idea for a product but cant quite get it right...
He'll get it there for you. Some sort of mechanical genius, he is. He's working with people now to get there ideas onto paper, sketch up the mechanical drawings.
Mikehart (and other Inventors),
You mention you've done the whole invention/marketing song and dance and it appears you are process oriented - good! Just to be sure, or for the benefit of other readers here, if one hasn't done so, immediately go to http://www.uspto.gov. That is the US Patent and Tradmark Office website. It has an inventor section and inventor help line. It's free - use it! Tax payers are funding this!
The inventor's notebook is an excellent place to start. I would not discuss my invention with anyone until I had all the necessary legal protection or it's fair game - even to a tool manufacturer who could be lurking here, for example. The site above will outline what constitutes a patentable invention, etc. and far more.
Your idea to start a group is good, but I would focus on the information found at the site. After you review the requirements to define and protect inventions, you can later discuss marketing techniques in general. You may also want to discuss formal Trademarks and review copyright laws. You could also invite an I.P. attorney, marketing professional, trade group member, etc., to be a speaker. It sounds like your intent from the post.
If you are planning a group as an educational process, which is a wonderful and much needed idea, that is a good thing. However, if you think of this as a discussion about individual inventions that are not protected, or collaborate with another inventor, you could possible open the door to other issues that threaten the invention or inventorship. Defining the mission and rules upfront would not be a bad idea.
This is not legal advice and I encourage it be sought. However, if just starting, go back the to link at the first paragraph, decide if there a patentable invention, and go from there, if the invention meet the requirements, you'll will find the resources on "the program to patent". In the meantime, I personally would not discuss in public.
On a side note, you may have seen the recent Coca-Cola scandal in the news where a few folks were trying to sell secrets to the competition. They did not Patent the recipe as you have to reveal the entire process and are only protected for a number of years. They classified the recipe as a Trade Secret. That protected it for all these years and gives them legal recourse in instances such as this. Of course, they have the big bucks to protect this hugely valuable asset. The average person may find the legal fees too much.
Also, consider that if you have a great invention that you properly protect, and have the necessary paperwork in place for protection first and, a confidentiality agreement (consult a professional!) you could consider selling or licensing to a big company who would take over the legal and marketing process (plus the funding) and, drafted well, and agreed upon, gain payment for your invention that way. A legal professional in this area (Intellectual Property Law or I.P.) could help you in more ways that you know - it's imperative. It's wise to be informed and innovative! - we need inventors! - and to protect the invention, legally. My 2 cents only and again - not legal advice! There are many stategies that could be employed. Best of luck to all you innovative inventors. I think there may be a patent attorney on this site. If so, you'll get some good advice.
P.S. If you work for a company and your terms of employment are to assign inventions to them, as one person noted, it's there's and not yours. Even Peon's have to sign that to be hired. Last disclaimer - I am not a offering legal advice, just pointing folks to free resourses that could be helpful with a few non-legal opinions thrown in. Consult a legal professional is good advice, and doing your homework on the http://www.uspto.gov, will help save you the legal fees if you don't meet the requirements for patentability. Again, good luck to all!
Good comments. The USPTO site has good information.
I actually did my own patent search for free via the USPTO site. I don't recommend this across the board, but for simple, straightforward inventions this can be done and can save money. I will cover this in the material on the buildersinventions site.The entire process of inventing/marketing is full of promise and pitfalls.
People should have a clear idea of what they're getting themselves into before proceeding.
You Rock!SamT
Wow! Thanks, SamT.
My only concern is that rocks sink! You had some good info to consider when consider setting up a group.
To the person who ran into shysters and others who will, ask the firm for a list of non-provisional US patent applications, by number, they have filed and read up at the USPTO site. One can see their work. Alternately, one can view the inventor's name and address on the front page. Google them and contact to ONLY inquire about their experience with the firm without revealing your invention ideas. Do they meet response deadlines, are they writing good solid applications (if it applies), do they recommend alternate strategies for obstacles, and so forth. One could also Google IP Attorneys+[your state]. Note that they do not have to be in your state, however, if one is meeting with them initially, it might be practical. While one can do this independently, moving beyond the provisional phase does require a more formal protocol with the patent office, to whom and how to file responses in the acceptable manner, etc. I think those things might also be visible under "public PAIRS", under the Transaction History tab.
It's also important that the IP attorneys are not only familiar with the "filing process", but the subject matter. Many good IP attorney's have degrees in engineering, etc., and that might be the best for this area of invention. They get the science and can better deal with the "prosecution" matters in a non-provisional patent application, like overcoming claim rejections, etc., and with the inventors input should be able to clearly respond in the best way or advise other alternatives to the inventor.
Inventors, don't be hesitant to invent and protect your invention. Educate yourself on the process for free, get legal advice, do your homework, and learn your options. Bottom line: Don't discuss anything in detail about your invention until you have a legal agreement in place. Again, not legal advice, but practical advice.
I'd be comfortable filing a provisional application as an individual on an invention I came up with if not obligated to my employer. For small entities the forms and fees are on the site as well. I'm thinking less than $200 for a provisional application. Do not be deterred. The provisional application, mailed via US Express, with your filing receipt a pre-paid return postcard with everything documented and, will give you one year to refine the invention if needed. You have your "date". Your documented notebook, duly witnessed as other mentioned are still very important during this time. You have exactly one year to file a non-provisional utility patent application. That is where you MUST have your ducks in a row. You still need protection of a properly drafted legal agreement if you are speaking with others during this period.
The non-porvisional phase is when the specific deadlines begin and fines for some things that can be extended and also the most important time to "dance the legal dance", which is where the IP Attorneys can be a HUGE benefit - unless you are ultra-diligent by nature, know the protocol, etc. That is why my original post mentioned that you might protect your invention through a provisional application and consider alternates like licensing, selling, etc. That way someone else foots the legal bill, but you can still gain, with a properly and legally drafted document, and will still listed as an inventor on the patent. This is not necessarily a bad plan for a great invention - one has to make their own decision and everyone has personal factors as well. Keep inventing folks, benefit from your inventions and know they will help others do their job quicker and better, make a chore easier, etc. - we need you! Great luck to you all!
One concern with respect to creating such a group, and for your invention that you listed here, is previous public disclosure. If you have any public disclosure more than a year before you file an application (whether a provisional or a regular utility application), you can lowe your right to a patent. Now the USPTO may not know about it, and go ahead and grant you a patent, but if some one else does know about it, they are free to violate your patent; if you sue for enforcement of your patent, you are likely to lose. So unless there is a nondisclosure agreement inplace between the members of the group and an inventor, disclosing to the group could be considered to be a public disclosure.
The following is an excerpt from the following link which describes this in much more detail.
"A person shall be entitled to a patent unless . . . the invention was
patented or described in a printed publication in this or a foreign country
or in public use or on sale in this country, more than one year prior to the
date of the application for patent in the United States."
http://www.ip.com/resource/articles/StrategicDisclosureFifthFloat.pdf
The notebook is the standard way of protecting inventorship, but you need to do it properly. Sign, date and witness signature with date. But you should also use a notebook with numbered pages, in ink, and keep the notebook up to date as the you work on things. You need to show continuous work on an invention up to when you file.
One more issue is a potential change in US patent regulations: the US has always used "first to invent" as opposed to a "first to file", while the rest of the world was the ther way around. The USPTO is about to change to first to file, so if you work on your invention for too long and someone else files first, you may be out of luck, even if you invented long before they did.
Mandatory Legal disclaimer: I am not an attorney and none of what I have written should be considered to be legal advice.
But I do spend way too much time working with patent attorneys.
See what happens when you spend too much time with attorneys.............:-)Good points. The proposedBuildersInventions web site will provide a space for builders with inventions that are already in production. These folks have already dealt with patenting and trademarking.The educational and informative part of site will deal with the process of invention-marketing. This includes how to secure your invention. The numbered,signed and dated invention journal/notebook is a good start. It provides a record of 'first-to-invent'.BuildersInventions deals with relatively simple, straightforward products that are invented to solve job site problems. This type of inventing is not rocket science, or computer software, or or other such highly technical products. However, that does not mean it is easy. Often the greatest products are simple ideas. The main point is that you do not have to immediately think of patenting your idea in order to protect it. I lost several thousand dollars on a previous invention that way. The lawyer knew that there were other intermediary (Low-cost) steps that I could have taken to protect my idea, but his 'professional' concern for my safety skewed his advice. Heck, what did I know? I learned.
Those are all good points. Most inventors get carried away by the excitement of their invention. Legal protection is just one facet to consider. There is the actual prototyping and getting your invention to its final stage. That's a good time for filing a Provisional Patent Application. At that point you're at a fork in the road. Do you pursue this on your own or do you license it? Each decision has its pros and cons.
mikehart,
You are on target with the excitement part - who wouldn't be excited! You are also right about the pros and cons, and as long as you are protected, have the time to evaluate which way to go.
My only goal here is to point folks to free resources available to help educate so that they have the basis to make a good decision for them.
Again, best of luck to all.
What type of Entity are you seeing for this group?
Non Profit Mutual Benefit? Professional? I know there are other possibilities, I just don't have a clue.
Are you considering CC&Rs, AoInc and Bylaws, a simple contractual Agreement? Others?
Each has benefits and liabilities, their own ways of agreeing to the rules, and their own ways of changing and enforcing those rules.
And of course, membership in each type has has different Duties and Rights. Even multiple membership levels.
View Image
That you (|:>)SamT
Yep, that be me
I'm going to keep it really simple to begin.
It will be an informal group at first.
The web site will provide an image and brief description and link to each inventor's own web site.
I think that I can get a dozen high quality builder-inventors with products right away.
This can then be the subject for articles in trade publications.
The publicity will be good for all members as visitors to the BuildersInventions website can look at the various products and then go to the one that interests them the most.
They can then buy directly from the individual member.
Membership will be free initially. Part of the deal is to provide a reciprocal link on your website.To answer your question; in a nutshell, it will be a private business until a change in status looks like the right thing to do.
SamT
That is a good idea. I once spoke with the Director of Engineering at the University of Alabama in Huntsville when I was trying to find out how to put a woodworking invention on the market and he advised against getting a patent. That it would cost and excessive amount of money, that patents work better for chemical formulas and the like.
He suggested manufacturing the invention under a U.S. Registered Trademark and then flooding the market with your product. The example he gave was the Weed Eater. Either manufacturing the product yourself or having a manufacturer construct it under contract. That as the originator of the product many estabished companies and indivduals would buy your product with the idea of supporting the research and development done by companies to make better products for people to use.
He said that lawyers will find ways to weaken your patent because the more arguments you list as why your invention is different and has never been tried or produced strengthens your patent; but with the loop-holes and expert law people today it would be hard to keep all the arguments on your patent you began with. If you have a weak patent some portion of or all of your idea may be used by other competing inventior and manufacturers.
What frieghtens me about getting involved in something like this is that I came across companies claiming to help inventors who were planning to absorb the profits with legal cost and paper work, even before the inventor has an application for a patent on file or gets his product to market. I guest they refer to it as up front cost. I believe that most craftspeople would like to see their inventions in use because it makes things more managable for people who would benefit from using their solution to a problem. But we all recognize that the real answer that determines if the product is successful, is the financial returns. And if the bulk of burden is on up front costs just to get the product safely to market, the evdience and inventors enthusiasm may get suffocated in the process.
How does your method differ and guarantee a fair shake for the craftsperson / inventor?
As for recording the development I used the U. S. Post Office. Just make a simple orthographic or isometric drawing (doesn't have to be to scale), write a description, take a few pictures and mail it to yourself and to a trusted friend or family member as Registered Mail; save it and not open it. If you ever have to prove in court that its your idea present the sealed unopened mailer to the judge during your case.
Be prepared to sell a few prior to going public and keep your receipts and customer contact information because there is something in the patent law that forbids another, other than the inventor from taking out a patent on an item that has been made and sold a certain length of time prior to the application for the patent. The annual edition of artist market or some reference book in the library may help to save time in locating this informaiton.
Most inventors look at patenting as the very first step.
The real first step is to evaluate your invention and see if it can be successful.
Can it make money? Is there a market for it?
I(t's pointless to spend all kinds of money on patenting if the market doesn't exist.
Well, you do end up with a nicely framed official patent that you can hang on your wall.I am not going to offer any legal advice to inventors. I'd like to see the members provide their trusted contacts for legal advice, patenting etc. If you've worked with a trusted patent attorney, then you can refer him/her.The web site will only feature inventions by tradespeople. This can lead to a sales catalog and help make sales to large retailers. The web site will be free to members. If you have an invention that's ready to go, you can place it there with a link to your own web site. A customer would follow the link to your web site and could buy your product there. You'd have to have an ecommerce-enabled web site, but that's not too difficult. I can refer a good web designer who knows how to do this. There will be a focussed course on invention-marketing that all members can constribute their experience to. There will be a charge for that. But it will be worth it.All in all, I see a true win-win situation for all parties. I also like the idea of helping individual inventors. A group approach will be far more effective than trying to do it on your own.
Mike, after reading this thread I've decided that you do have a good idea with the website. I'm sure there will be glitches but the idea is good.
blueOur Skytrak is for sale. It has 500 hrs on it. We want 50k (you pay the freight) and we'll finance it. Drop me an email; it's a good buy.
Thanks ofr the vote of confidence. I've experienced the invention-marketing process from A to Z and I am familiar with the problems and pitfalls. An added problem is the almost monopolistic nature of toda's big-box retailer world. They are the 900 lb gorillas and they have the little guy by the short hairs. Ideally, I'd like to see a successful e-commerce enabled tradesman-inventor marketing group that successfully sells directly to people. The internet has opened up many opportunities in this direction. Also a lot of flim-flam artists.
A group approach can only help.
Yeah, unfortunately even the local hardware stores have gone "big box". When the Hardware Hank in the nearby "big city" changed to Ace, they eliminated a lot of 3rd-party stuff they were carrying, and now only have the official Ace-distributed products. Lots of good stuff gone.But there are general hardware catalogs that many smaller stores order from, and some stores have gotten wise and encourage people to special-order through the store. So it might be worthwhile seeing if there's a way to get into one of the catalogs.
Seven blunders of the world that lead to violence: wealth without work, pleasure without conscience, knowledge without character, commerce without morality, science without humanity, worship without sacrifice, politics without principle. --Mahatma Gandhi
I'll look into that
Well, the basic site is up.
Everything is slowing down due to the holidays.
We'll have more content soon
Email me for the web address.
Hiya Mike,
Just remember this thread and thought I'd give it a little bump-up.
Looks like your website http://www.buildersinventions.org/ has expanded quite a bit since I saw it last. Looks good!
Hope everything is going well for you.
We're off to a good start.
Right now we have 16 builder-inventions. That includes two estimating programs developed by builders.
Several builder-inventors have contacted me with their ideas and these will soon be featured.
The forum, which is for members-only, just opened. This allows members to talk shop with each other.
The opt-in email feature is active. Sign up for our somewhat irregular email updates.Many of the products featured at buildersinventions.org are not available in the big-box stores. This is due to their almost monopolistic power over distribution and their disinterest in the small single-item vendor/inventor. My intent is to create an alternative way of marketing interesting, original tools invented by builders and trades people to their peers. You can support them by buying directly from them via the link to their web site.Please bookmark the site and spread the word. We will be showcasing more and more tools invented by builders and trades people. If you know of other builder-inventors, let them know that they can showcase their invention here for free.
Thanks!
The
I did get my own invention, the CordSnake, into the Duluth Trading online catalog.
Score one victory!
That's great news Mike!
I will contact you through your site about signing up for the discussions, thanks!
Yea Mike it would be good to see something like this work. The group, the catalog, website seems to be a very good idea.
I will be very interested in seeing how this idea progresses. Who knows, maybe I'll try to bring a few ideas to market?!
blueOur Skytrak is for sale. It has 500 hrs on it. We want 50k (you pay the freight) and we'll finance it. Drop me an email; it's a good buy.
I plan on having the web site up by late November.
Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Dear Crooked Nails,
The thing you said about documenting with the US Post Office method is one of which I've heard. Have you put that to a test successfully? I ask, because in a non-provisional application you must cite prior art. If you protect yourself in this manner, another inventor could claim this was unknown. I think this would be an excellent question to pose to the inventor help line at the USPTO to be sure.
I heard of this technique in relation to copyrite. However, the laws have changed. An individual putting something out there, like a photo on your website, for example, is the owner, however, any legal recourse is severely hampered relating to damages, whereas if one spent some time to copyrite an item (inexpensive and easy - check the USPTO site), you broaden your rights for recovery. An example might be that someone makes 500 flyers using your work without your permission. They can be fined for EACH flyer. Without the proper protection, you might be deemed right in court, but may pay well for the vindication of being right, but not able to recover financially. Again, not legal advice, but worth investigating.
I don't necessarily disagree with the rest of what you shared, it would depend on the circumstances. I like the Trademark idea. I like the documentation and saving the evidence. I'm just big on "C.Y.A." by nature in general and in being well informed. I tend to over-analyze too. In this sort of matter, I would personally err on the "C.Y.A."-side.
On the patent attorney weakening your invention, from what I've seen, it's usually the patent office that objects to the weaker claims. That is the reason I recommended ways to find a reputable IP attorney. A good one could help someone tighten up an application to avoid possible issues before they become a problem to overcome.
On a side-note, in my 15 year sales/marketing career, we developed something and the company had the foresight to protect it with a trademark. The manufacturer who was paid to make it, RAN and did not WALK to try to steal what the company hired them to make. Later on, I took at peak at the site mentioned above and learned they were struck down. This was one of the biggest of the big boys. I've seen the snakes out there and don't want to see that happen to anyone here. Inventors work hard, are essential to us and we couldn't do without them. I wish everyone luck and hopefully financial return on their invention - and I hope all of of realize some benefit, even if we don't know about a construction tool or technique, we still can realize the benefit in the end and that is a worthy cause overall.
You copyright a "work of authorship" when you write it -- it's inherent (in the latest version of the law). To protect that work (if you want to) you should say "Copyright 2006 Joe Smith" on the work, but even this is not absolutely necessary. You can then go beyond that and (simply and inexpenively) REGISTER the copyright with the Copyright Office of the Library of Congress.If you need to sue someone for violation of your copyright you should have registered the copyright, and it's best to have done that before the violation occurred (though not absolutely necessary).The new law is a bit "backward" in a way, in the Internet era, since it makes it impossible to tell whether some "work of authorship" (like this post) is or isn't intended to be copyrighted (absent some "public domain" notation).
Seven blunders of the world that lead to violence: wealth without work, pleasure without conscience, knowledge without character, commerce without morality, science without humanity, worship without sacrifice, politics without principle. --Mahatma Gandhi
Thank you for the info DanH.
You mention that if you have to sue, it's best to have registered before the violation. I totally agree. The "not absolutely necessary" part caught my attention. As I understand or mis-understand, you are right on the other points you mention, but how can one go back after a violation, register then, and still expect to collect damages?
The premise that made me think that is if the violation occurred prior to the "official" copyrite action, would damages still be an option? This goes back to current laws protect automatically, but without the same legal teeth - if you know what I mean. Just curious and wondering if you would expand on that thought a bit. It's not often I see anything retroactive legally, so it makes me curious. I'm not challenging your information, just looking at it as a learning opportunity with my curious mind. Thank you for sharing your information and anything you might add to educate me (and others) further. Again, thank you.
Copyright and the internet is a "whole new world" to me. If I understand it correctly, and I may not, you could print a news article for your personal reference, but not copy it for others. I had thought, before now, that if one posted merely a link to information, as opposed to copy and paste an entire article, for example, that was the limit of "okay". Is the link or URL a violation? I would tend to say, "Here is a good site for info on...." and paste a link. Clarification on this point would be helpful to me. (I seem to think from others that a "hotlink" is not cool".) Teach me!
In general, if you put your copyright notice on an article (or even if you don't, for that matter) and someone copies it (in some fashion that infringes on your copyright), you have grounds for a suit, whether or not it's registered. It used to be that you had to register before you could sue in federal court, but I'm not sure what the current situation is.The trickier part is proving that the person copying knew it was copyrighted material, though I believe the law expects them to exercise "due diligence" to assure this isn't the case, and more recent laws and court decisions have placed more of the burden on the copyier.In most cases, however, all that occurs is that the person infringing is told to stop it, and, if the infringement makes up a substantial portion of some already released commercial work, a demand is made for a slice of the profits. Rarely gets to court.Keep in mind that probably less than 5% of all copyrighted work is ever registered. News organizations might send an issue of their newspaper/magazine or videotape of their broadcast to the patent office once a year, for example. Probably the majority of published books are registered, but a minority of everything else.I'm guessing that the patent office is subtly discouraging registration at this point, just to avoid getting swamped.
People never lie so much as before an election, during a war, or after a hunt. --Otto von Bismarck
Re "fair use", that's an area of considerable fuzziness. Certainly you can print out a page or two of something on the internet to make it easier to read. Whether you can even print an entire 50 page PDF, however, is subject to debate.Re links, the place where it's gotten messy in the past is if the referring party dresses up the link to make it look like their own work.
People never lie so much as before an election, during a war, or after a hunt. --Otto von Bismarck
DanH,
Thank you for taking the time for a greater explanation. It seems there is a big "fuzzy" area with regard to copyright in some areas. I am sure the USPTO is trying to whittle the workload. Proposed patent changes indicate that as well from what I've heard.
On the computer links, I've seen folks on a genealogy board accused of "hotlinking". To my small understanding this is an issue that involves more the ISP and using (stealing) their bandwidth. However, those of us who might post a link here, with a general description, like "look here at this site for a tool you seek", or say a neighborhood site with links to local goverment sites, etc. It is my understanding that no government publication can be subject to copyright, but I'd have to check.
On the "fair use", if a newspaper offers a "print this article". I would presume they mean so I can read it more fully later, but not make copies for others. The implied consent is a confusing issue if not explained on the site. I'd like to see clarification like "read this before you print". Then we'd know the expectation/limitation.
I do appreciate your time and trouble for the response. This whole thread has been interesting and informative. Thank you, again, for your contribution!
Just FYI, the patent office does patents and trademarks. Copyrights are handled by the Library of Congress.
People never lie so much as before an election, during a war, or after a hunt. --Otto von Bismarck
Dear DTGardengirl, thank you for your remarks. I agree with you totally and I appreciate the way you explained your views. Please forgive my late reply, it wasn't intentional.
It has been a long time since I seriously considered putting a product on the market eventhough I'm always having to come up with solutions that I would like to share with others as a developed product. And as you said the laws have changed. I did not pursue it because of the likelyhood of getting ripped off and spending my time fattening someone else's pockets.
This idea which came across concerning inventors pulling together sort of rekindled the idea that maybe something safe could turn up. The old ideas I held in retrospect are practically useless today; thanks for the correction.
Eventhough I have some serious concerns about patent lawyers as I do about politicians, it is a fact that you have to deal with politicians to get a law passed and so with the patent business or protecting an invention; you may have to deal with a patent attorney and other middle-people. Thanks again for the update.
bump
when in doubt add garlic
Yes I'm interested,
I'm based in Cork, Ireland. I have an idea for a circular saw that the world definately needs. I will have to develop a prototype, patent it etc. I don't know anything about this.
Would love to communicate with you.
Is your invention a radical departure from existing saws, or is it a refinement? Is it an add-on, a modification or a complete re-design?
Sounds to me that if you have a unique concept you will want to license it.
If you have an add-on, a modification, you may want to manufacture yourself. Maybe....
It's a lot of work and money.
Take a look at this site:http://www.bigfootsaws.com/This is a nifty conversion to an existing wormdrive saw.
Go slow and don't spend any money before investigating the ultimate marketability of your idea.
Thanks very much for your info,
I'll give bigfoot Bob a call in the morning. I found your messages and those who answered you very insightful and informative. It's very valuable to learn that others have been through it all. Your vision of united inventors is admirable.
I'm based in Cork, Ireland. My idea is more towards the complete redesign than the modification of a circular saw. There's a good deal of engineering and design to be done before I'll have a working prototype but I know it's doable. To try and put a price on the design and development I would estimate at least $ 20,000 . That's a lot of loot so talking to a veteran like yourself beforehand is a must.
Any chance we can talk more? You can email me direct on [email protected]
I'm emailing you my 'Devil's Advocate' response.
Mike,
You have not been at BT for awhile. Just checking up on ya. How's the business going?