I have a large California drift stone fireplace with lots of BIG stones protruding and my wife has always been after me to build a mantel. My problem is that I have no idea how to build it with all the protrusions. I am a little bit leary about using a hammer drill with several thousand lbs of stone above my head. I am thinking about strategically placing steel rebar (?) into several spots, attach a 2×6 and box it in with some 1x lumber. BUT, how in the heck do I scribe the 1x’s around the protruding stones????? Is this even possible,safe? Help. I have had great luck with help on many problem areas and this one is tough.
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Replies
"Protruding" how much?
Level the top first with mortar or tinted mortar, then attach your mantel. Scribe and cut the back edge touching stone.
Expert since 10 am.
"Level the top first with mortar or tinted mortar"What does the top of the chimney have to do with a mantle? You don't want it level anyways, you want water to run off.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I envisioned a more or less squared off fireplace, to which he was adding a mantel. I see he means vertical stone, floor to ceiling or similar.Expert since 10 am.
I think he meant to level the stone where he wants to put the mantel to make an even match. Colored grout will help make it disappear.
bring the stone surface out to a flat plane then....The misuse of the word 'level' is what threw me off from what he was trying to say.
I expect that from my wife, LOL - "you knew what I meant"
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
But isn't that what Holmes (or whoever it is) says?
A strong nation, like a strong person, can afford to be gentle, firm, thoughtful, and restrained. It can afford to extend a helping hand to others. It's a weak nation, like a weak person, that must behave with bluster and boasting and rashness and other signs of insecurity. --Jimmy Carter
yeah, in ref to plumb, but this is describing flat, not plumb nor level.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I suppose. How would one describe a ditzy blond? Nor flat, not plumb, or off level?
A strong nation, like a strong person, can afford to be gentle, firm, thoughtful, and restrained. It can afford to extend a helping hand to others. It's a weak nation, like a weak person, that must behave with bluster and boasting and rashness and other signs of insecurity. --Jimmy Carter
Is she flat chested or does she have a couple of distractions to keep you from noticing whether she is ditzy or not?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
How about standing the mantel off the stone surface? Here's some pics of ours, pipes inserted during construction I'm sure, but perhaps you could do something similar by drilling. Don't think I'd be scared of roto-hammering unless there's reason to think wall integrity in marginal. It's not like you're jack hammering the thing.
One pic is looking down the length of the mantel and shows the gap (not too clearly, but maybe you get the idea) between mantel and stone. Mantel is supported on 4 pipes, looks to be 3/4 emt.
I can get some better pics of details in daylight if you're interested.
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Everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end.
...aaahhhhhh if only those stone fireplaces WOULD come down that easy when you WANT them to!No Coffee No Workee!
That's kind of what I was thinking. Usually probably no need to have it match exactly and from across the room or at the sofa, you'd probably not realize it. I don't 'get' your second pic, though. Have no idea what it is showing.
How'd you get the lighting? You have a hollow mantel w/ lights and glass top/bottom?
Yeah, I knew it was a reach, no good way to photograph with flash. It's hollow with flourescents strips inside and "windows" top and bottom, supported on stubs of EMT in the masonry.
Really what I was getting at was that a "floating" mantel might be a possibility rather than trying to fit an irregular surface.
Everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end.
I know ... and I agree ... there may be no reason for a 'tight fit'. Why beat yourself up trying for the tight fit when a mantel could float? Your mantel surely makes a statement! What people normally put on the mantel really doesn't require the tight fit. A tight fit is normally done ... but usually only because it is integrated into the original design where e.g. rock is brought down to the mantel and then starts again below.
Gotta think outside the box sometimes, yaknow? That's what I like about BT ... there is always a 'sideways' thinker who nudges you off that think path w/ blinders. Ain't the internet great?!!
Here is a mantle I did for my FIL, I drilled into the stone and the cedar log, inserted all thread into stone held in place with redhead epoxy. Very strong and not bad looking if I do say so myself.
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Edited 11/13/2009 10:01 am ET by zachariah
Aw, you "float it" guys are no fun!Tweak out, and earn yourself some bragging rights with your dinner guests!Check out this scribe job:AitchKay
Wow!! Please elaborate, method, time spent, etc.
As soon as I can figure out how to embed pics in the text, as you do, I'll start a separate post on that project.Any hints as to posting from a Mac? I've played around with Picasa a bit, but still can't do it.One regret that I have about my mantel is that I didn't keep as much of the "log" as you did: although I went for a drawknife-assisted chamfer throughout, that still wasn't enough.Another time, I'd make the bottom front edge way more waney. I like the way that, with the cedar you used, you have that bold sapwood edge curling around the endgrain, accentuating the lines of the log itself.Lots of ways to skin them old cats!AitchKay
I'm not sure you can post with picasa, I know you can't with firefox on windows, I have to use internet explorer but I found out how by doing an advance search on here, if anybody knows how I'm sure they posted directions. That is one of the many things I love about this site!
It's a little more work to embed pictures with Firefox, but it's doable.
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A strong nation, like a strong person, can afford to be gentle, firm, thoughtful, and restrained. It can afford to extend a helping hand to others. It's a weak nation, like a weak person, that must behave with bluster and boasting and rashness and other signs of insecurity. --Jimmy Carter
I just started using it so I don't know the tricks yet, can you explain?
Well, we'll skip over making the picture accessible and assume it's on Flickr or some such. Enter your text like this, then a couple of<br/><br/>(These are known as "breaks" -- they create space). Then<img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3091/3188167160_368e796902.jpg"/>Then, if you want more text afterwards, more breaks first.The important thing is to look down below the text window and check the "Check here if HTML tags are in the message" box before posting. And it's always wise to do a "preview" first, before hitting "post".The most common mistake made when posting photos (besides posting oversized pictures that everyone hates) is to post something in your private photo directory, that other people can't access. This results in the infamous red X (or sometimes nothing at all).
A strong nation, like a strong person, can afford to be gentle, firm, thoughtful, and restrained. It can afford to extend a helping hand to others. It's a weak nation, like a weak person, that must behave with bluster and boasting and rashness and other signs of insecurity. --Jimmy Carter
wow, thanks I think I'll stick with IE for now.
Hey, Dan,Thanks, but I followed your instructions to a "T" several times, and it won't work for me.I don't know if it's my Mac, the Picasa site, or what.And sorry about the hijack, jr40!AitchKay
Should work the same for any browser. What didn't work?If the <> characters showed up you forgot to press the "Contains HTML" button. If the image doesn't show up it usually means the image isn't accessible over the net or you somehow messed up the syntax.
A strong nation, like a strong person, can afford to be gentle, firm, thoughtful, and restrained. It can afford to extend a helping hand to others. It's a weak nation, like a weak person, that must behave with bluster and boasting and rashness and other signs of insecurity. --Jimmy Carter
I copied and pasted your instructions to a blank doc so I could have it side-by-side with my post to double-check.Made the Picasa Gallery public.Checked the HTML box.Copied and pasted the link.I even copied and pasted your text once to see if I'd screwed up any keystrokes.Clicked Preview.Just a blank space in the text.AitchKay
Here's what I get if I just literally copy my previous post and click "contains HTML":
Well, we'll skip over making the picture accessible and assume it's on Flickr or some such. Enter your text like this, then a couple of
(These are known as "breaks" -- they create space). Then
View Image
Then, if you want more text afterwards, more breaks first.
The important thing is to look down below the text window and check the "Check here if HTML tags are in the message" box before posting. And it's always wise to do a "preview" first, before hitting "post".
The most common mistake made when posting photos (besides posting oversized pictures that everyone hates) is to post something in your private photo directory, that other people can't access. This results in the infamous red X (or sometimes nothing at all).
A strong nation, like a strong person, can afford to be gentle, firm, thoughtful, and restrained. It can afford to extend a helping hand to others. It's a weak nation, like a weak person, that must behave with bluster and boasting and rashness and other signs of insecurity. --Jimmy Carter
And this is the same, only from Opera:
Well, we'll skip over making the picture accessible and assume it's on Flickr or some such. Enter your text like this, then a couple of
(These are known as "breaks" -- they create space). Then
View Image
Then, if you want more text afterwards, more breaks first.
The important thing is to look down below the text window and check the "Check here if HTML tags are in the message" box before posting. And it's always wise to do a "preview" first, before hitting "post".
The most common mistake made when posting photos (besides posting oversized pictures that everyone hates) is to post something in your private photo directory, that other people can't access. This results in the infamous red X (or sometimes nothing at all).
A strong nation, like a strong person, can afford to be gentle, firm, thoughtful, and restrained. It can afford to extend a helping hand to others. It's a weak nation, like a weak person, that must behave with bluster and boasting and rashness and other signs of insecurity. --Jimmy Carter
Still a mystery.I did an AS and found the "I'm out of pixels" thread. Fat Roman gave me some similar but different advice.Still nada.AitchKay
Yeah, I've never figured out why some people can do this and others seem to struggle. I'm guessing there's some niggling detail that being missed, perhaps something in your profile like the basic/advanced setting.
A strong nation, like a strong person, can afford to be gentle, firm, thoughtful, and restrained. It can afford to extend a helping hand to others. It's a weak nation, like a weak person, that must behave with bluster and boasting and rashness and other signs of insecurity. --Jimmy Carter
Maybe a character flaw?Genes?Bad diet?I DO suffer from shortness of pants...AitchKay
Like I said, maybe it's your profile. Strip down and check yourself out in a full-length mirror.
A strong nation, like a strong person, can afford to be gentle, firm, thoughtful, and restrained. It can afford to extend a helping hand to others. It's a weak nation, like a weak person, that must behave with bluster and boasting and rashness and other signs of insecurity. --Jimmy Carter
Yeah, but no pictures of that, please.
With his luck, that's the one that WOULD show up OK if he posted it.
A strong nation, like a strong person, can afford to be gentle, firm, thoughtful, and restrained. It can afford to extend a helping hand to others. It's a weak nation, like a weak person, that must behave with bluster and boasting and rashness and other signs of insecurity. --Jimmy Carter
I've finally figured out how to embed (thanks, Fat Roman), but now I'm having a lot of trouble with glare from the flash in the mirror.And I'm getting a bit chilly. But don't worry, I'll get a good profile pic posted sooner or later!AitchKay
The image is a little fuzzy in spots:
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A strong nation, like a strong person, can afford to be gentle, firm, thoughtful, and restrained. It can afford to extend a helping hand to others. It's a weak nation, like a weak person, that must behave with bluster and boasting and rashness and other signs of insecurity. --Jimmy Carter
But at least there's no glare from the flash.AitchKay
Hold on a minute! Is that a Rivendale?Nice bike regardless. Fixie or singlespeed?
Dunno -- I just grabbed the pic off public photos on Flickr.
A strong nation, like a strong person, can afford to be gentle, firm, thoughtful, and restrained. It can afford to extend a helping hand to others. It's a weak nation, like a weak person, that must behave with bluster and boasting and rashness and other signs of insecurity. --Jimmy Carter
CNC termites?
looks nice and time consuming!
Beaver on a leash.AitchKay
I successfully scribed in (no gap bigger than 1/4") a solid oak 8" x 14" x 10' mantle once.
I started by making a hollow pine mock-up. When I liked the fit, I took it apart, clamped each piece of pine to the beam, and went over it with a top-bearing bit. That was the easy part.
Hollowing out the beam and back-cutting the scribe was where I spent most of my labor. Chainsaw blade on a mini grinder -- YOW!
It was a fun job, though, and I'd do it again.
AitchKay
Scribe or don't scribe the back edge of the mantle; that's an æsthetic choice that's up to you and SWMBO. Scribing isn't that big a deal once you figure out how to hold the piece to be scribed firmly in place while you do it.
Removing the material can be done with any number of tools, depending on the thickness of the piece. A chainsaw wheel on a grinder is a good choice to remove a lot of material quickly, but practise on scrap beforehand if you've never used one before. And don't run one without the guard in place. (Don't ask me how I know that, please....)
To mount the mantle to the stone wall, get out the Bulldog and bore appropriate sized holes (for half-inch anchors, usually 5/8") into the biggest, most solid stones you can find, on approximately 16" spacing. Stay away from the edges of the stones; don't drill into the mortar/grout between them.
Drill the mantle beam to match (drill the holes slightly oversize to allow you some wiggle room), and counter bore the holes for washers and nuts.
Insert Hilti anchors in the stone, slip the mantle beam over them, and run the nuts down hand tight. Now level the beam and brace it in place, then drive the nuts down tight in rotation. Do not use an impactor; use a short-handled socket wrench so you can feel how tight you're getting. Expanding Hilti anchors exert a lot of sideways pressure, and you do not want to split any stones at this point.
Cover the nuts with blind plugs, button caps, architectural moulding, or veneer.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
foolish men call Justice....
Thanks for the help. The stones are large. Took two of us (several took 3 of us) to lift and place. The profiles are very different, some faces are 4-6" different in depth. Sorry, I don't know what the Bulldog is. Haven't used Kilti anchors but will try. I really want to scribe as close as possible. Have used the chains saw blade for roughing out 3d figures. I just have to figure out how to hold the mantel board at the right height and level to do the scribe. I am going to give it a try and hope the 300 lber's don't give way.
A Bosch Bulldog is a rotary hammer drill. They come in several sizes, from 'happy homeowner' size all the way up to demolition models capable of busting up the floor slab in your basement. You will only need one big enough to put a <1" hole in stone.
Hilti anchors. Hilti is a brand name; generically they are known as 'wedge' or 'expansion' anchors. They expand and lock in place when you crank down on the nut that pulls the workpiece towards the wall.
To scribe something too big to hold in place, you can 'spile' it instead. This is a boatbuilding technique. Simply put, you build a light skeleton spile board the same overall dimensions as the workpiece, and wedge, jam, shim, pinch, or whatever you gotta do to hold it in place exactly as if it were the workpiece itself. Then you scribe that...and transfer the scribed marks to the actual workpiece.
In your case, I would probably not bother. I'd just build a couple of sawhorses to fit the situation and hoist the actual workpiece up onto those and shim it into place against the stone then scribe it directly. Spiling I usually reserve for things that go around three or four corners in two different planes simultaneously.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Your idea is a good starting point. BUT, some stone faces extend 4-6" beyond adjacent faces. That would leave lots of space between mantel and some stones. Wife wants about a 8" deep mantel. about 6 -7' long and 4" thick. I think a box might me my best bet. Thanks for the idea.
JR
I think if you were a bit creative you could make yourself a fitting jig of some sort. Eg, get a couple of 1x pieces as long as the mantel plus maybe 8", run bolts and thumb nuts between the two pieces every few inches, then stick shorter pieces of 1x in between the two long pieces at right angles. Hold the jig in place, slide the short pieces in/out to conform to the surface, then tighten the thumb nuts.Dunno if it would help, but it's a thought.
A strong nation, like a strong person, can afford to be gentle, firm, thoughtful, and restrained. It can afford to extend a helping hand to others. It's a weak nation, like a weak person, that must behave with bluster and boasting and rashness and other signs of insecurity. --Jimmy Carter
I think you're onto something there, a mega version of this kind of thing;
http://www.mannyswoodworkersplace.com/contourgauges.html
You could take a reading where the top of mantle goes , transfer to mantle and then do bottom. Bet this would get the big work done without even setting the mantle in place.
If the thing is really heavy, you could build a little staging for it, maybe even a slide up ramp if working by yourself.
Everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end.
Yeah, that's the basic idea. But only have maybe eight sliders (depends on how irregular the surface is) to keep weight under control. You could probably make one light enough that the wife or kid could hold it up while you set the sliders.
A strong nation, like a strong person, can afford to be gentle, firm, thoughtful, and restrained. It can afford to extend a helping hand to others. It's a weak nation, like a weak person, that must behave with bluster and boasting and rashness and other signs of insecurity. --Jimmy Carter
Stay tuned. I only held my 400# mantle up to test fit it once... and I never took it down.AitchKay.
Looks more like spots in the fuzzy to me
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Thanks bud. I like the idea. Here goes nothing. My gaps however are going to be up to 6" in several places. Holding the board to be scribed is my next feat. Looking at some bracing ideas. Or maybe skyhooks.
I'm going to post a thread on mine as soon as I get the time, I hope in the next few days -- I finally got my pics scanned, and have figured out how to embed them.The thing that made me know I could do it is that masonry has large gaps all over (called mortar lines), so a 1/4" gap would look really tight -- as opposed to a wood-wood scribe, where you better have it darn close to perfect.I was right -- 1/4" wood-stone gaps look like a million bucks!AitchKay
That is a great look. Thanks for the pics. My stones are not as flat faced as those. And I think I will quit beating myself up with tight fit ideas.
I can't believe I just burned time looking for this info. LOL
It's a Traffic bike. Kind of cool, isn't it.
Here's the Flickr set for the singlespeed http://www.flickr.com/photos/trafficbikes/sets/72157612636597343/
More sets of photos http://www.flickr.com/photos/trafficbikes/sets/
And their site http://trafficbikes.com/
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Yeah, that is a very nice bike. I haven't been tempted by the single speed bug myself but
it makes for a clean looking ride. Riser bars and a brooks saddle nice combo.
Hey, JR,
You inspired me to finally scan my pics & Polaroids, and figure out how to embed them!
I've done enough hijacking of your post, so I'm starting my own thread,
"Solid-Timber Mantle Scribed to Stone," 126689.1
I had a lot of fun making that mantle. It was one of my all-time favorite projects.
AitchKay