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I’m getting ready to build a set of kitchen cabinets, including a large island with a breakfast bar attached. It looks like, if I make them standard heights, the island will be 36″ high and the breakfast bar will be 42″ high. I’ve never done this kind of project before, and I’m trying to figure out how to design this so I can put in the electrical and the countertop. I’m planning on a Caesarstone countertop, which is an engineered stone product. A friend told me that the best way to approach this project is to build a stub wall and to install the electrical in this wall, to cover it my veneered sheet goods for the breakfast bar, then to build the island separately and attach it to the breakfast bar. But doing this, I wouldn’t have any access to the inside of the breakfast bar, which I assume I would need to attach the counter top. Can anyone either give me any information on how to approach this or point me to a book or something that could give me some design help? In addition, I’m trying to find some information about how wide the base of the breakfast bar needs to be to support the counter. I want about a 12″ overhang on the bar. If I make the breakfast bar 6″ deep and the counter 18″, will this provide enough support? |
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You won't be able to overhang 12" with only 6" anchored, that's too much leverage working against you. You'll probably need some sort of brace at the ends of the breakfast counter to support the counter to within a few inches of its edge. Stone counters are usually glued down with high quality silicone, so there doesn't need to be access to the underside.
I think your friend's advice is pretty close to the mark. That stud wall will need to be attached to the rest of the island so it doesn't fall over with the weight of the counter. Either that or it needs to go through the floor and attach to the joists.
zak
Hi,
I just finished up a kitchen with the exact same layout. The cabinets were cherry by KraftMaid and the countertop and bartop were both granite. I installed the cabinet peninsula first, then framed a knee wall at 40 3/4 out of 2x4s for the bar. I screwed through the back of the cabinets into each stud of the knee wall, and then put some screws through the bottom plate into the floor. It is not going anywhere.
Before the granite or paneling went in, I ran my wiring. I asked the granite company about the overhang issue. For a 12 inch overhang, they wanted 4 seperate supports each 4 inches long evenly spaced under the overhang. I had the cherry paneling with cherry supports in the day before the stone was installed, the granite guys just use silicone to secure the bar-top... it seems plenty strong.
I'll disagree with zak, you can get a 12" overhang using 18" countertops on your 6" stub/pony wall. The caveat is that you want to use two full thicknesses of your sub counter material, said material cannot be wimpy, either--as it has to get fastened right smartly down into the top of the stub wall.
Ok, that's usually about the time they say--oh, we were going to use a bit of solid-surface for that one small bit. That's ok, too--you just want a dimension that runs 1/3 : 2/3 through the center of the pony wall (it's a real good idea to go to a real counter-top man for the part, and tell him you are making a cantilever, too--they have the experience to do some cool magic like embedded bolts, etc.)
Not a bad idea to have a bit of a lip, on the high side of the higher countertop--the better to keep things from rolling to the side harder to get to . . .
We don't do eat-at counters with 42" heights. We make them 36 high, just like the adjacent counter, and simply spec stools of the right height.
42-high counters and barstools make me think, "tract house."
Watch most of the cooking channel shows, like Molto Mario, etc. The guests are right across the 36-high counter, same height.
We put electric receps in the end panel inside walls. The end panels project out to support the extended width counter.
I hadn't thought about making the bar the same height as the island. Part of what I was envisioning is people perching on a stool to talk for a couple of minutes to the person in the kitchen, which seems less formal than actually making a guest sit down into a chair. Part of it was that the island is going to define the boundary between the kitchen and living room, and a higher bar seemed like it would do that better. And part of it was that I'd have a backsplash to put outlets.
But I'm kind of liking the idea of one big open counter top. It would give me more usable counter space, because for the most part, there won't be anyone sitting at the bar. And, it would be easier to build.
This idea is growing on me quickly!
But I don't see what about a taller breakfast bar would make it seem like a tract house? Anything in particular, or just that this is what you tend to see in less expensive homes? Is it less expensive, maybe, to get two smaller countertops than one huge one?
pm ,
I tend to agree with Gene Davis , a 36" continuous countertop will make for a more spacious look and a much larger usable area . A few corbel supports on the backside for the overhang will do it . You also will not feel boxed in .
dusty