I am planning to build some cabinets. However I have no joiner or plainer. As the carcasses will be built of plywood there is no problem there. However, I’m worried about the face frames and doors (rails and styles, not the panel as I am planning to use ¼â€ ply for that). So it seems there are three strategies:
1. Use purchased doors and overlay with out face frames style cabinets to obviate the need for the tools
2. Purchas the truest milled stock I can find and simply use it as is and hope for the best
3. Build the face frames and door rails and styles out of ply and paint them
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Some questions:
If I go for option 2 is this asking for trouble? I come from a furniture making background and this is defiantly not usually done. We always would rough cut stock, sticker it and then mill it to final dimensions our selves. However, given the lack of square inherent with existing walls and floors maybe this isn’t as much of an issue with cabinets…
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If I go with 3 will the painted edges look ok or will the layers of veneer still be visible? Would it be better to edge band it and then paint it? Specifically what sort of plywood would I be looking to purchase so that it would look like I painted regular wood? I plan to biscuit join the rails and styles; there is no problem using this style joint with plywood right?
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Thanks, M
Replies
I'm trying to think if there was ever a joiner in any of the cab shops I worked... I don't think there was. And planer isn't exactly a necessity for cabinets unless you're starting out with rough stock. So in regards to option 2:
Panels are easy to glue up using carefully placed biscuits. Some brain power will be required to forecast the cuts and the cove cut for the 'raised' part of the panel so the biscuits don't intrude. Clean the wet glue that oozed out as soon as you can after clamp-up. A belt sander can do the rest for getting them flat (we used 36" & 48" wide thickness sanders in the shops but you can do the same with the BS.).
A good blade in the TS and you're ready to cut your stiles & rails. When you machine them for the stick & cope joints set it up so the face of all the pieces will be done on the table (ie, all faces down), easier to get a flat joint on the face of the doors that way.
Careful work with a belt sander (if even necessary) and smaller RO sander and you're ready to stain. We used to stain the cove of the raised panel prior to assy to make up for seasonal changes to avoid having a strip of unfinished wood exposed. IIRC that stain was bit darker than the stain used on the rest of the cab to make the RP stand out a little better.
Buy your material from a hardwood supply and you'll be happier than if you go to a BB store. Their outer ply of good wood is pretty thin and easy to burn through while sanding.
7g
Agree with you on the BB plywood comment, you can just about sneeze thru the vaneer. For the cab face frames, I use pocket screw joints and the doors I use rail and style bits. I pick the best stock I can because I don't want to joint the edges and so far no complaints. If I rip stock, plan it out so the rip goes inside the door opening or recieves the pannel. As John said, glue up on a flat surface and you should be ok, if not sanding works.
plywood sucks for doors unless you are doing a real cheapie...if so you can apply edging and paint (birch is better than oak cause of grain)...that is if you just plan on being square edged.
I would, if I had no tools, to the lumber yard and pay them to make me straight stock to size......what about the inner panel? You have a table saw?.....router? Sounds like you are going with a 1/4 inner panel. This could be ply.........but you have to cut a groove for it which would take tooling.
Maybe you ought to just order the doors premade and be done with it.
and to answer your q about about buying premilled stock of the shops I worked in 1 bought all premilled stock and rarely did we ever have to rip stock. They did order in large enough volume that it wasn't hard to figure they were getting a good deal.
Another shop got all the stock s2s and ripped a straight edge on a straight liner (not sure if that's the right name, that thing scared the sh__ out of me) then ripped it down to the sizes we needed for cabs & doors.
i'm just a homeowner doing renovations around my house. One of my first tool purchases (after the basics like table saw, router, etc) was a thickness planer. It's been a very useful tool and has allowed me to make stuff i would not have been able to do otherwise. No longer limited to stock lumber dimensions, can buy rough lumber if I want, can remove cupping from boards, etc, etc. Some tools can be replaced with others if you don't need them alot. I don't have a jointer so I use my router and a straigthedge. Same for chop saw....would be nice, but i can use my table saw.
You don't need a top-of-the-line model. The smaller 12" units can be purchased for $400 here in Canada. Not suitable for a cabinet-maker for sure, but good enough for the homeowner. Buy one, you won't regret it.
But if you are not going to buy one, try using the same piece of 1x4x8 or 1x4x10 or whatever for one door. Chances are the thickness of a single piece will be the same.
If you are using a rail and stile bit to route your pieces, make sure the fronts of the boards are flush. Any changes in thickness would then only show up on the back. You can then sand or use a hand plane to smooth things out.
Also, 1/4 plywood is not 1/4". If you use veneered particle board, it's closer to 3/16". You can buy a rail and stile bit for 3/16" panels at Lee Valley tools
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=46234&cat=1,46168,46178
I would absolutely order the doors. My father has a shop that makes nothing but cabinet doors. They might seem expensive at first, but it's actually a bargain, considering the quality construction you can get in a relatively short time frame!
Trust me if you use plywood for face frames, and rails and stiles for the doors it will be a pain to look right, plus the strength is minimal cause of the plys could separate.
Just use poplar for FF and buy the doors. Use pocket screws for the frames.
Yes. Do that.
Just another option: My local supplier (Paxton) sells "face frame stock" by the l.f. in various widths for not much of a premium over random length and width stock; S4S and ready to go. They will also do a variety of style of doors and drawer fronts. Look for a place with a good millwork department.
This link is old because they've closed their full service store, but
http://www.paxtonwood.com/mouldings.html
have you ever used a nice Plane?
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I second the motion.Get a nice sharp set of chisels. Get a smooth plane. Get some sand paper and make yourself a sanding block.Then have fun. I built my first set of custom cabinets with that assortment and a router and powersaw. Never again, but I'm glad I got that set done. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I had exactly the same thought. It must be our age.
But it is a total waste if he can't keep them sharp.
Someday, when I find my stone, I'll post a picture of the box I made for it. You guys will never believe that a framer made this! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
It's all a trade off. Whenever i get into a bind thinking "Oh, I don't have a (insert machine name here), I can't possibly build that project" I try to slow down and think, "now how did they do this 200 years ago?"
They did it all with basic hand tools . . . handsaws (probably the term handsaw wasn't even used two hundred years ago because they were all handsaws), planes, chisels, mallets etc.
Now, I'll be the first to admit if you need to make money doing this or if time is an issue, you'll probably need to get machines to make the productivity factor work for you. If not however, you'll definitely gain some handtool skills doing it the old fashioned way. Probably better for your hearing as well.
On the other, other hand, you could use a halfway approach. With a table saw with a decent blade, a router, and some hand tools, your cabinets are very doable. Oh, I'd actually sneak a Kreg jig in there somewhere but that's just me.
Good luck.
Assuming you have a TS, buy a planar blade for it. Produces smooth enough cuts that a light sanding is all that's needed for a perfectly smooth surface.
as someone else said,just buy some s4s in the width you want and your ready to go. i bought about 500' from liberty hardwood in kc a couple months ago.if i remember right it was 1.00 a running foot for 2.5 inch. sounds kinda high at first as i can buy oak for 2.40 a ft. but by the time you cut and waste some here and there it's cost is only a little more for the stuff ready to go.
i built probably 15 sets of cabinets with out a planer or jointer,still don't have a jointer,i have a internal fear of them.none of the cabs would win awards,but looked good from the street driving by at 45mph.. larry
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Any decent furniture wood supplier should have an industrial-grade jointer and planer. You do not order your stock by phone; you go there in person and pick out the rough boards you want and have the yard personnel joint one edge and plane to the thickness you specify. I pay an additional 5 or 10 cents a board foot for this service, and it's cheap at the price.
With one jointed edge, you have a true edge to put against the fence when you're ripping to design width. Assuming your tablesaw is properly adjusted, and you're running a planer blade as DanH suggested, you shouldn't have any problems in dimensioning the parts for making your face frames and cab doors.
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