building insulated entry door, help!

im starting my build of an insulated panel shaker/craftsman style entry door.
i have looked for months and other than fibreglass and $$$ european dooors there is nothing on the market for a nice looking
insulated door. why is this?
i had ordered a very nice looking simpson wood door (not insulated) but cancelled order at the last minute.
at $3000 dollars i figured i could build something better for alot less money, (weve all heard that before right)
after spending some of that original door money on some nice clamps and a domino xl, i have built 2 beautifull interior doors
and am ready for the exterior.
here are my thoughts, and i am hoping to get some positive and negitive feedback on this stuff so thank you in advance.
door will have;
-1″xps foam with 1/4″ vgf ply epoxyed to both sides for panel
-solid 2 3/4″ stiles and rails dadoed for panel
-low-e 2×2 light on top1/3, the dados will have to be adjusted for window placement and inside half removed, and pieces screwed in from inside so if window breaks it can be replaced.
-slight rabbet around entire door with bulb weather stripping installed for super tight seal (like on some german doors)
-10 large dominos on all rail connections
-mullions added on after for apperance
its going to be big and heavy but should work out
any products that people like, (hard ware, weather stripping, glue, finish etc.) very appreaciated
and i should mention the wood for all these doors is super hard heart pine very old and straight ,
its been sitting out side for years and once you take a 1/16 off it its georgous and lazer straight
which makes me feel okay using it on a covered porch.
thanks for reading simon
Replies
Where do you live, and how will you seal the door?
All the insulation in the world is no good if you can't get a good door seal. And relying on compression of a gasket against the stop to seal will eventually spring any wood composite door. Plus you have to figure out how to seal the sill.
(At the very least make sure you have some very stiff material in the latch edge of the door, to keep it from springing.)
4-panel for me...
Simon,
I did something similar, except I used polyiso as a core. I did a 4-panel mahogany front door, 3-6 by 7-0. Solid mahogany threshold and jambs. Glued it up with Titebond II. The door is 2-1/4" thick.
I first made a bit of a modified stave core frame for the "skeletal" stiles and rails, the polyiso sits within that skeletal frame. I glued 3/4" mahogany stiles and rails to each side (interior and exterior) of the core for all the stiles and rails. The mahogany pieces were also biscuited to one another.
Although it's a 4-panel door, I have 4 interior panels and 4 exterior panels. I ran a bead of silicon on the back of each raised panel, pressed it into place on the polyiso, then pin nailed it at top center and bottom center to prevent the panel from shifting. I milled mahogany panel molding and used that to secure the panels to the door's stiles and rails.
I have to say I'm pretty pleased with how the door turned out. It's been in for almost three years now, no issues. It has a very nice heft to it, and swings quite nicely.
Finished the door with Cetol Door and Window. I have to say I like the finish, it's easily renewed. To renew Cetrol you simply clean the door and reapply another coat of Cetol. No need to sand to bare wood.
I used weatherstripping from Conservation Technology. Tight all around. WS25 and WS26 to seal the bottom of the door to the threshold. WS15 in the jambs.
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thanks mongo,
good to hear someone has done something similar with sucess, sounds like a nice door.
great info on the conservation technology parts.
what kind of hinges and hardware did you use?
thanks
The entry set is an Emtek set. Make sure the entry set you buy is appropriate for your door thickness.
The hinges? I'd have thought Emtek as well, but thank goodness they are embossed with the manufacturer's name or I'd not have remembered. They are indeed Emtek. 5x5's, brass, ball bearing, square corner, five knuckles with four screws per leaf. I used four hinges. Did a quick search and it looks like they are Emtek 96416. My finish is oil rubbed bronze.
Aside: You're probably aware of this, but with a door as thick as yours you'll want to bevel the edge of the door on the latch side by a couple of degrees. That way you'll have a nice tight reveal on the interior latch side between the edge of the door and the jamb when the door closed, but you'll have swing clearance between the outside edge of the door and the jamb when the door is swung open or closed. Watch your stop thickness on the exterior side so you get adequate overlap between the face of the door and the edge of the stop when the door is closed. My stop is about 11/16" thick.
You can bevel the hinge edge of the door too. There are no issues wth swing clearance on the hinge side, but with thick doors beveling the hings side can prevent the hinge side from binding when the door is closed.
Edit to add: Example of beveled door edge, latch side:
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I recently built a set of full light french doors using similar methods to what you have outlined. However there was no insulation involved... simply not enough room given the full lights. But, I have successfully built up other insulated panels for exterior use. Like you, I used xps with ply skins. My glue of choice is poly, Gorilla glue or equal. I use a vacuum press for the layup.
For the french doors I used a manufactured threshold: http://absupply.net/searchfast.aspx?KeyWords=Pemko+165DT. ABS supply has many other types available if this one doesn't suit your needs. My doors are outswing. The hinges are Stanley 4 1/2" solid brass with ball bearings. Very heavy duty jobbers. I think a lighter hinge would have sufficed but I happened to have these. Bought them at a garage sale for $10. Sometimes we get lucky. My weather stripping is virtually identical to what Mongo has shown. Doing the millwork required to accept the foam strip is easy compared to the overall job. If built correctly, the weatherstrip doesn't create any amount of stress that could cause a wood door to bind or fail.
When it comes to jobs such as this, I always tell myself: If a door manufacturer can build such a door, then I can also. There isn't really any magic to it.
Best regards...
all great info, exactly what i was looking for.
trying to scale down thickness for ease of build/operation, i do have 8" walls but it seems like sourcing proper hinges
is difficult for anything over 2 1/2"
thank you everyone
also having trouble finding a good custom glazing source, insulated, tempered, low-e etc. if anyone has one
hinges...
Large hinges can be tough to source. And when you do find them, the price can be scary, especially for brass. I looked high and low when I was shopping. My hinges were listed at around $60 a pair, after calling and negotiating a bit, I got two pair for about $80. Every little bit helps.
Your door is 2-3/4" thick? There are hinges out there. With your extra thick walls, depending on where in the jamb the door is set, you might want to look at "wide throw hinges".
There is a reason no one has an insulated entry door.
2 3/4 inch thick door, is one reason. Yuk!
Secondly, R 4 is what you get with 1" foam. Wow, better than 1 3/4 inches of wood, but worth what.
If you like a thick door and enjoy the porcess go for it.