I am being asked to bid on a whole-house remodel. The house sits on Pilings and as far as I can see every drywall seam has popped. Did I mention the two-story house sits on pilings? Well we can feel movement when the wind is howling. How can I install new drywall and ELIMINATE future joint movement/ cracking? Resiliant channels??
Thanks in advance,
All Cracked Up
ewsailor
edwebercontracting.com
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Replies
I can't see anyway to do it - you could float a lot of the the DW, but not all of it. May have to treat like a trailer home; individual panels, with battens over the seams.
Would look like carp, of course.
Forrest
Thanks,I'll keep this in mind and use it if all else fails.cracked up
Perhaps it would be better to simply walk away from bidding on this one?
If, as you say, EVERY SEAM has popped due to movement, then probably too every window and door opening is racking...along with mitered trim joints opening up.
Since you say you can actually "feel" the house move on windy days, I imagine then the whole house structure continually racking, causing the subfloors to move as well.
I only mention this cause you said a "whole" house remodel; which I envision involves more than just reinstalling drywall? Possibly the job involves new trim work ( crown/ baseboard/window & door trim)and new floor tile, cabinetry installations and such? If so, structure movement seriously affects all those things.
It sounds as though more reinforcement at the foundation level is really whats needed...but you would know better than me.
If it was a single story house, you could use clips to attach the drywall to the top plate, so if any roof movement (uplift) were present, the drywall could move somewhat and the seams would stay static and not pop. But you indicate this to be a 2 story house and all seams on both floors are popping, including interior partition walls...this sounds rather bad to me.
I'd probably just walk away from this one and bid on something else.
Davo
Thanks:Ordinarily I would do just what you suggest and leave this one for the young and foolish. However, I've been working hard to get work with this Architect and in this particular community, and now I get my chance and may be doomed. I alerted the owners and the Architect as we were doing the walk-through so they are aware that something unusual is on the horizon (as far as the bid goes).I was thinking about 3x10 x-bracing on the pilings, and was just offered the idea to sheath any new walls that I build with plywood first, both of which would reduce the motion. Have you worked with resilient channel for drywall? I have a sample of X-Crack from straight-flex drywall products and that decouples inside corner joints from the framing. I'm looking for something that would decouple the field sheets from the stud walls.This is an extensive remodel- a six-figure one. I'm going to do my research thoroughly, beef up the framing in the remodel, suggest to the Architect that we think about t&g D-Fir, or SYP, planking as an alternative to drywall, reduce my warranty period to the blink of an eye (and add a healthy percentage as a "warranty reserve"), etc.Thank you,
cracked-up but still trying
No, I haven't really worked with resiliant channel for drywall applications. Not long ago we errected a 20X40 metal building. We installed "hat" channel horizontally at 2ft intervals and then proceeded to attach the exterior metal siding. We did the same thing on the interior side but instead of attaching drywall, we installed 5/8 cdx plywood over the "hat". This was a utility building and did not call for drywall.
I believe the "hat" channel is very similar to the resilent channels you are referring to. If you were to install the channels with a slightly elongated screw hole, this would allow movement between the stud and the channel...similar to how vinyl siding is attached...if you get my drift. But this would be time consuming.
If the budget allows, I would rather stiffen the walls by installing plywood...as has been earlier mentioned...and then attach the drywall accordingly...you could even use resilent channel over the plywood for xtra good measure, but of course you need to be aware of your final finished wall thickness.
At the Journal of Light Construction website, veteran drywaller Myron Ferguson has a chat line that discusses all types of drywall situations.
I believe that website is : jlconline.com.
Good chance he could reccommend a decoupling product for your situation.
Good luck,
Davo
Davo:Thanks for the feedback. Fortunatly I've convinced the Architect and the client to use T&G planks (either D-Fir or SYP) for interior walls. We're currently remodelling a barn into a studio with a 17' window wall at one gable end and we'll need some of these techniques offered here.Thank you one and all for your input, and if you have more , please, send it my way. I've learned a long time ago that as smart as I think I am, I'm not!Ed Weber
edwebercontracting.com
since you are talking whole house remo, plan to do a lot of tightening up. Use Urethene spray insulation , then re-sheath the inside of the studs on exterior walls to provide shear strength. do that vertiaclly and run the SR horizontally. Then give them a taillight warrantee on the finish job.
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i like the idea of treating the interior of the walls like a shearwall and the general tightening. I was thinking of X-bracing on the pilings also.Good idea, Thanks
Ahh - another thing. If you sheath the walls in ply, I've used a pieces of metal corner bead, closely nailed, to tie together all the INSIDE corners prior to rock.
Forrest
I love it. Excellent idea.Thanks,Cracked-up
How about putting the house on a block foundation? If they're gonna renovate without a solid foundation they may as well just burn the money in a can in the back yard (or front yard if its more convienient).
We did this for a guy last September. The house was like a roller coaster so we jacked it where necessary and then let the block guys loose on it.
The job was done for under 10k and well worth it.
If you're gonna bid this job you need to talk the client into starting at the beginning.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
MSA1:That's a fine suggestion and would solve the problem. I'll have to see if the Architectural Review Board for that community will allow it. I like the clean start approach you suggest.ThanksCrackedup
I too was going to suggest beefing up the foundation somewhat. It never occured to me to block it. Good on M1! As long as that house it moving, there is nothing you can do to ensure a best-in-class finish.
Arcflash:It does sound good but I'll have to see what the Architecural Review Board says.Thanks,ewsailor
Research it some more. Like Piffin said, there could be a reason that it is on pilings and not block. Your idea of beefing up the pilings wasn't bad either, if it plays out to be a flood zone. Maybe add piers?
Good points.Thanks,ewsailor
I was in my friends newer cottage on lake of the woods. It was a two storey, on piles at the front and on grade at the back set on to bedrock. But the house shook all the time and during a big storm it was almost sea sick time. While lying on the beach having a brew i looked back under the house and noticed all the supports went straight up and no tie in to anything solid. The HO asked if she noticed the movement and commented it's getting worse. I asked her who designed it? An architect's first job she resonded. She asked what I would do? I said cross brace the hell out of it or put big stone pillars at every corner to the bedrock.
This guy understood compresion but not tension.
Every thing failed on this building, windows, doors siding, it all shook loose over time.
The HO husband never did address the racking movement.
They have moved and I would like to know if this place is still standing?Have you thought of diagional sheet metal bracing? of letting in 2x bracing?I would address the foundation as other said Glad they went for t&g
Shoemaker:Thanks for the corroboration. I'm leaning toward X-bracing on the pilings. I am relieved they went for T&G.Thanks again,ewsailor
If you are in a flood zone, that will be a factor in permitting a solid foundation.
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Piffin:You're absolutely right. What I come away with after this great feedback from my virtual colleagues is: "You can't "rock-it" if it's already moving!".Thanks to all,ED Weber
edwebercontracting.com
If the house moves as much as you say, I wouldnt put my name on it otherwise.
Good luck, hope you get the job.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
Sheat the inside with OSB board and use RC-1 Channel on all drywall. Don't use X-Crack..it's only for non-right angles and hard to screw into.
Zano:Thanks for the input. I had great hopes for X-Crack, but I'll mock up a test with RC-1.Cracked-up
How about covering the walls with "wall liner" -- the wallpaper like stuff intended to fix up cracked plaster. It goes on horizontally.
Sheet the walls with OSB first. The walls won't rack and it will be stronger.
Makes wiring a minor PITA. Boxes have to be set out to account for the additional thickness.
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It would be a PITA. I built houses for a little while in So Cal hills and they were sheathing the whole exterior with plywood before they put on stucco.
The foundations were on concrete pilings that were connected together on grade with a grade beam. The grade beam just connected the friction piles.
From the grade beam all the way up it was sheathed in plywood. On the down slope side it was frequently four stories.
And if there were large open interior spaces they had shear walls inside as well.
So sheathing walls with plywood isn't that big a deal. But in other parts of the country builders and home owners would scream about the costs.
I shouldn't have said OSB. I think it is to weak at the sides. The fasteners could pull out of it to easily.
Personally, I would demo all the exterior siding and sheath the exterior. I would pay close attention to the bottom plate connection when sheathing. And if the roof isn't sheathed well I'd do that as well.
If you have the box sheared up this way you could have one piling sink a bit and you'd never know it. I have pretty high confidence in well made shear walls.
I had a carpenter friend tell me that after you shear up one of these houses you could roll it down the hill and it would stay together. Resisting earthquake forces is serious business.
Edit: Even if you sheared up the house real well you would still have to look closely at the connect to the pilings. Also, the way the house sits now it kind of floats on the pilings. So they all work together. But if you shear up house some of the pilings might have to carry more of a load because the one or more of they aren't doing anything.
So it is a whole system. I would definately have a structual engineer look at the whole thing. Especially after sinking money into it.
One of the reasons homes in the hills of So Cal have such stringent codes is they got tired of them sliding down the hill or jumping off thier foundations.
Edited 1/4/2009 4:35 pm ET by popawheelie
That's never been a problem as long as the electrician knows what the wall surface depth will be.
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