I have to replace a set of steps in a garage that go to an entry door of the house. Right now it consists of two steps, the second step is actually a 4’x4′ landing. It is 15″ from the floor to bottom of the doorsill. It is located in the corner of the garage. What they want is to have three rises of 5″ each. The HO has health condition making it difficult for her to climb the slightly higher stairs. They also want the stairs to be rounded on the two sides going into the garage. So instead of a rectangular stair setup I will have the two sides square in the corner and the outside rounded from one wall to the other. I am also planning to slightly elongate the landing in one direction, to compensate for the loss of landing space due to the extra step. I can not do this in both directions because it meets the exit door to the garage.
My questin is this: How do I frame and build the curved part? What would be the best way to achieve a nice rounded set of steps? And what materials would be used for the risers and treads? I have never done or even seen how curved steps are built! I would greatly appreciate any advice from someone who has done this before! Piffin, where are you? Thanks!
Duey
Replies
What kind of finish do they want? I've done lots of exterior steps with a radius all of which were concrete. So I could suggest forming a set of radius steps.
Otherwise, I'm thinking that you will want to build it as a series of platforms. Figure out the radius that you want and cut yourself some radius plates and use that as your starting point. Frame and sheet each platform. I'm guessing that the radius will be fairly tight. so you might consider 2 layers of 3/8" ply ripped the short way to wrap the radius in. Once the steps are framed and sheeted, then apply desired covering. If they are not interested in a finished look. I would use good one side ply for both the platform tops and 3/8" ply risers.
I'm sure you will get some other ideas, maybe some better ideas too. but this is one approach you could take. at least if I followed what you were looking for. lol
I think I would start with sheets of plywood, probably 3/4. I would strike a suitable radius on the first sheet and use it as the template for the framing. Sets of stacked boxes are ideal, and I would use the 3/4 for the treads, and use 2 layers of 1/4 for risers. Frame the boxes as I normally would, without the radius, then form the curve with a bunch of little studs fastened to the ply.
Hope that's not too confusing. Funny thing is trying to type out a suitable description of something instead of just going ahead and working on it. Gets me every time.
Quality, Craftsmanship, Detail
I'm not quite sure what radius plates are?(just a pattern?) Would I just build a series of 3 stacked platforms? They are planning to carpet this when I am done. I appreciate both of your responses and am starting to understand more about how to do it. Still struggling a little with the actual framing!Thanks for the help so far!
Duey
Wow, I just reread nails2's response and it seems he was describing what I was. The radius plates would be the curve struck onto some ply that you could fasten the framing to. Figure the curve, cut it, then fasten the studs along the arch. Then you can put the other plate on top. Quality, Craftsmanship, Detail
Yes, between Hook and myself, I think you are getting the idea too. The framing is easy. Figure out the width of the joist you need to get your 5".
beacuse of the radius you would build three independant boxes. You've got your ply wood layed out with radius for each of the 3 boxes. so cut 2 sets for each box. With the width of your risers figured out. remember bottom will be different to allow for finish height ei: they want carpet , so what is that 3/4"? so then you would make your 1st box total height 4 1/4" other boxes would both be 5". that adds up to 14 1/4" then with the carpet that puts u just under the sill at the 15". ( if carpet is closer to 1/2" then 1st box is 4 1/2", whatever you carpet is that's what you compensate - not sure if you knew all, that but I thought better to throw it in )
with the radius plywood cut and your joists ripped: 1st box, joists would be 2 3/4" other 2 boxes would be 3 1/2" ( yay - that's a 2x4) then assemble the boxes. nailing, glueing, screwing etc.. joists and 2x4 studs as Huck described to bottom only.
attach 1st box to concrete. use PT ply for bottom of 1st box and glue to concrete using constuction adhesive. or if you use reg ply remember to lay felt and use fasteners to attach to concrete. then sheet top of 1st platform.
now attach next box, sheet. and then top box, and sheet. I would lay out the joists perpendicualr to the box below it so that you can easily screw the plywood to joist below. also, plenty of construction adhesive.
one other thing; if you want nosing, which I assume with carpet you will. remember to allow for that when you lay out your ply. meaning each box will have larger radius for the top, than the bottom.
after you've got all that assmebled . fasten your layers of 3/8" or 1/4" plywood risers.
your ready for carpet.
I think that covers it, hope I didn't make it too confusing. If I did let me know and I or someone else will clarify.
Edited 5/14/2005 1:42 pm ET by nails2
Edited 5/15/2005 1:28 pm ET by nails2
Duey...I'm gonna throw ya a curve ball OK?
Total rise from garage to house is 15 inches, correct?
Lady has hard time taking steps, correct?
If the answer is "yes" to these 2 questions, .........then.......why can't you build her a ramp instead of steps? If you have a "run" of at least 5 ft, then a ramp is feasible...longer the run, the better the ramp.
If ramp is not feasible....why in Gods name would you want to build a set of "winders."? If lady has trouble walking...climbing a curved stair is harder to manuever than going straight up.... greater chance of stumbling on a set of winders cause tread depths vary.
Just my 2 cents.
Davo
Davo....it's not a winder. read his post again.
It's not winders....
Maybe in actual principal, your are right in saying it is not winders...but realistically, you talk about having only 3 risers, a tight radius, and building platform boxes... I believe that in the end, it will be very similar in function as winders..... unless I'm missing something here, the outside radius will have more tread depth than the inside radius.
I mean, it's only 3 risers...and you are turning, what?...90 degrees...no way the tread depth can remain constant on only 3 risers.
But hey, I've been dead wrong before.
IMHO a ramp makes more sense...the existing platform was 4X4 and you have to step down off of that and then allow a step or two to reach and open the garage door...so there should be between 6 and 7 feet minimum of usable space (run). The total rise is 15 inches.
You could allow a one inch step from house threshold to ramp...thereby reducing actual total rise to 14 inches.
14 inch rise divided by 7ft run = a 9.5 degree pitch...which I know does not meet handicap accessibility standards, but yet is really quite shallow walking at this pitch.
And since we are discussing curvatures...a curved ramp would yield an even longer run, thereby reducing the overall pitch down to say possibly a 7 degree pitch. and witha ramp, less chance to lose balance and stumble, legs don't need to be lifted nearly as high as when stair climbing
Davo
Davo, 1st of all good on ya. It's much easier to listen to a guy when it doesn't sound like he's talking down to ya.
As for the winders... it's confusing when you use this term to decribe the stairs in this situation. winders have a tapered tread. the stairs here simply have a curve. even though the radius gets smaller for each step that you go up, that does not mean that the depth of the tread will change. I've built forms for exterior concrete steps a number of times that are simular to the steps duey is looking for, so I am aware of the design ramafications.
These stairs will take up more room as a whole since he is also going out to the side. as apposed to a straight run.but I think that is what the client asked for. as well, there is little difference when approaching to traverse this design. again there is no taper or difference in tread depth, simply a curve.
There is nothing wrong with your ramp, in fact considering he started with a 4x4 landing, with steps added to that, I'm sure there would also be the room for it. And Duey will do well to offer it as a suggestion. Howerver, he still needs to know how to build the stairs if that what the customer so desires.
"he still needs to know how to build the stairs if that what the customer so desires..."
Right you are!
Thanks for the info.
Davo
Hey Davo, I just figured out where your misconceptions lies. In your mind you do seem to view dueys steps as winders. I realize that now, where you made reference to steps turning 90 degrees. That is the reason I wanted you to go back and re read dueys 1st post.
He states that the 2 inside corners are square and and the outside is rounded. can you picture that? Imagine looking at it from top down, it would look like a 1/4 pie section, except that he wants to elongate one side.
I think that all along you had in your mind that it was rounded, in the sense that the stringers were rounded. Thus your reference to "winders." In which case the treads would be be tapered.
walking up or down duey's stairs would still be a straight on approach. no turn like you have with a winder or spiral stair case.
I hope that clears up any lingering questions or doubts you still might have had.
talk to ya later, nails2
PS ...Davo, Duey is a good guy.....why you talking to him like he is stupid or something?
Nails, I apologize...Duey, I apologize....you are right, my posts sound insulting...but that was not my intention....I just wanted to point out other possibilities. I think maybe everyone is too focussed on building curved steps....nothing wrong, but is curved steps the right way to go for this particular homeowner? That's the point I'm trying to make....and hey, maybe given all the circumstances, that is the best way to go....I don't know...just playing devils advocate.
Duey, again sorry about the tone of my post to you....Nails, thanks for setting me straight.
Davo
Nobody said anything about a winder...I think you missed something.This is a discussion about a radiused corner on rectangular stacking boxes.edit to add: My comments are a bit redundant, I just read farther and found out you've already covered this.
Edited 5/15/2005 9:22 am ET by basswood