I was wondering if anyone had experience with, or an opinion about glueing up a wooden bulkhead door. I am considering using a flexible epoxy on old growth western red cedar T & G 3/4 x 4. The design incorporates (3) 3/4 x 5-1/2 battens, which I plan to screw and possibly also glue. I am not sure if slotting the holes and not using glue on the battens is practical. Any feedback or recommendations would be appreciated.
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Replies
I made a cedar bulkhead door for my basement entry.
I wouldn't bother glueing the T&G together, but I did use PL Premium and screws to attach the battens. I clamped the whole assembly together before I glued on the battens.
Cedars's a pretty stable wood, and I haven't had any problem with the doors since I built the about 10 years ago. I do need to clean them, and put a coat of preservative on them. But other than that, they've held up well/
Western red should be as good, or maybe a little better than the cedar for your use.
Shep I appreciate your input. I guess leaving the T & G joints without glue is best. I do plan to coat all surfaces with liquid borate preservative (Board Defense), let it dry then prime the T & G to seal in the borates, prior to assembly. My next step will probably be applying flexible epoxy consolidant to all the exposed end grain plus flexible epoxy filler (ConServ Epoxy Patch) to any misc. voids and possibly to glue the battens along with using rust resistant screws. This should minimize most of the water penetration at those vulnerable points.
The use of an adhesive on the battens is my biggest concern. Since I am using old growth western cedar which is stable and has small growth rings, plus sealing the end grain, maybe I can use an adhesive on the battens assuming the 1x4's won't swell in width to much. I could use a very flexible sealant instead of the flexible epoxy patch. The other thought was to apply the battens dry and slot the screw holes to allow some movement in the 1x4's and avoid stress against the glued and screwed battens.
Shep if you or anyone else has more thoughts about wooden bulkhead door projects, please reply. Knowing that this application of exposed wooden fabric close to grade is very prone to decay, any ideas for better specifications would be appreciated.
Edited 9/6/2008 11:11 am ET by PaulMarlowe
Paul-
when I put the addition on my house, I made sure I'd have an outside entrance to my basement shop.
I framed the bulkhead door with PT, but made the first doors with T&G PT. What a mistake. That stuff is waay too unstable for an application like that.
So I eventually rebuilt the doors out of T&G cedar. The PL Premium I used to fasten the battens holds extremely well, but does have a little flex to it, allowing for some wood movement. And the cedar doesn't have anywhere near the movement that the SYP PT does.
I left my doors unfinished. Its weathered to a pleasant gray, although it does need a cleaning right now. Your ideas of sealing endgrain and using the Borate preservative are all fine, but, IMO, a bit overkill. since redwood is a naturally resistant wood.
Yes the old growth cedar is naturally rot resistant, but I generally preserve and seal with epoxy, all exterior endgrain whenever it is in vulnerable locations and the budget allows. I figure if it extends the life of the wood from the start, it is worth it. I have been using this technique for many years with good success. Sometimes Clients don't maintain the wood as they should. This is another reason for this extra specification. Thanks Shep.
Made one out of AZEK products. White home, went perfectly. Five yrs later all they do is wash it.
I never worked with AZEK because I concentrate on building restoration and repair to damaged antique building fabric, especially wood rot do to decay fungus and insects. Most of my Clients want the wood restored and we often use epoxy. Is the AZEK strong enough for bulkhead doors that may get walked on?
Edited 9/7/2008 7:17 pm ET by PaulMarlowe
The back side or inside was framed in 5/4 pine.
Hi Paul,
Half my work this year seems to have been this sort of rot repair. I'd be interested in hearing more about your techniques. Would be worth a thread of its own, I think.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Hi Piffin,
I would be glad to discuss rot repair in depth when I have more time. This is a favorite subject of mine and something I specialize in. You may want to view some related discussion at one of my company forums on the link below. Feel free to follow-up with questions.
Paul Marlowe: Preservation Carpenter and wood rot repair Specialist Owner of Marlowe Restorations LLC and ConServ Epoxy LLCFeel free to visit our Forum & find out more about epoxies etc. http://conservepoxy.com/forum/index.php?board=3.0
Paul-
thanks for the link. I do a fair amount of restoration work, and am always interested in new tricks.
Is this the epoxy used in an episode of TOH?
Shep,
No I don't think ConServ Epoxy was seen on TOH, but it has been on the market since 1980 and is used throughout the USA and Canada.
Thanks, I'll take a look later this evening.I would probably also just seal the end grains with poxy.
I did one of these where I hd strap hinges built of long steel and carriage bolted thru, but even with that, the wood moved. I think each 26" door gained about 3/16" whicch was just enough to bruise wood against the bolts - like Shep mentioend with srews
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You can use Prime-A-Trate: http://advancedrepair.com/pricing.htm to seal end grain.
For bulkhead doors, it helps to have a pressure-preservative-treaded subframe under the doors (flat board capping construction below) with a drainage channel routed into it. That way, water that gets between the bulkhead doors and the construction below can drain away.
Jeff
That is called a primer but is two-part mix.Is it a polyester, or epoxy or what?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
It's the primer for the Flex-Tec HV system - two-part so I *think* it's epoxy like the finish system.Jeff
After reviewing the replies from my post about rebuilding rotted bulkhead doors, including the surrounding trim, I believe I will use the following specifications:
Wood- old growth western red cedar which we already pre-cut to finish dimensions
Preservative- liquid borates applied to all the surfaces of all the wood especially the end grain, including pulling apart the tacked doors to coat the T&G
Primer- apply to the dried T&G edges, allow to dry and re-assemble the doors
Epoxy- ConServ Epoxy 100 consolidant or the faster curing 200 patch (using the A&B liquid portion only) applied to the dry end grain of all the pieces including trim and battens, epoxy 200 patch/filler (A,B,C&D components) used to fill any defects/holes etc. and possibly applying a thin film over the wet 100 on the end grain, lightly sand when cured
Painting- prime, scuff sand, paint
Installation- EPDM rubber membrane installed at all wood masonry intersects and possibly at the wood frame to trim intersects, (if budget, patience and weather allows epoxy consolidant could be applied into the screw holes from the removed hinges and allowed to cure before refastening), scuff sand and apply the second finish coat of paint
This may sound like a lot of work, but consider the fact that a bulkhead door is one of the most exposed and probably the most vulnerable of all building fabric. This is because it is easily attacked by wood decay fungus. With proper maintenance, these specs. should add extra years of life to wooden bulkhead doors.
FHB did an article a while back. I'm working up the nerve to build some just like these.
http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/how-to/articles/better-looking-bulkhead-doors.aspx?langtype=1033&ac=ts&ra=fp
-d
I saw this article and it has some very interesting specs. I am replacing an existing set of bulkhead doors and the frame is still good. I have to match the original design, otherwise I would seriously consider this articles design. I especially like the way the doors are cut at the top to parallel the rain diverter and the slotted gutters in the frame. Thanks d.
Edited 9/7/2008 7:00 pm ET by PaulMarlowe
Edited 9/7/2008 7:02 pm ET by PaulMarlowe
Regardless of what you put on the door, wood will move. If you restrict it's movement with a glue or adhesive, the wood will split. I've made that mistake in the past on T&G utility doors. I've made many shed doors as you described, two that I live with, no glue and no slotted screw holes, they are still the same after years. On one larger set of barn doors I made, I used Gorilla glue on the battens, the T&G split in a few weeks.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
hammer1,
Thanks for the warning. I'm back to my original thought of only sealing the end grain to slow water absorption.
The last time I did doors like that, it was for a boathouse, right down by the water. I started to build them tight, clamped up, then I stopped, and built them loose, with spacers. I think I used
tongue depressors, but I might have used wooden coffee stirrers -- I keep lots of both around.I'm glad I did: I had to come back and plane the doors down anyway after they swelled up. If I'd clamped them tight, they would have bowed the battens, and I'd have had to start over from scratch.As long as you have a good Z-brace you should be fine without gluing.AitchKay
I think the reason my doors are still Ok is that cedar is pretty soft, and will flex around the screws, even tho the battens are glued on. And the construction adhesive I used has some give to it, too.
I could be wrong, but I think redwood would work about the same as the cedar. But I wouldn't glue the battens to any wood that moves more than those two.