Replies

1. 
   Frankie | Nov 26, 2002 12:50am | #1

   I have never seen 3/4" butcher block. Any 3/4" material for a counter top is too thin - VISUALLY. It looks anemic.

   I have seen 1 1/4" BB and of course 1 1/2". Try to use the 1 1/2" material. It is screwed to the cabinets from below. No substrate.

2. 
   strider7tk | Nov 26, 2002 12:58am | #2

   In my book, 3/4" is not real butcher block, it is just a bit more than veneer. I wouldn't put it in at all.

   Assuming you will ignore my bias, which I can accept, you will need to back the butcher block for weight bearing purposes. I routinely hop up on my counters to water high plants. I would back it with 3/4" ply.

   You need to allow the butcher block to move with moisture changes, however. You can drill an oversize hole in the plywood and screw it from underneath, not too, too tight. Think about attaching a table top to the table frame- woodworkers allow for movement across the grain.

   I have had trouble with butcher block splitting at the seams, so examine what you get carefully and finish it well- preferably both top and bottom.

1. 
   UncleDunc | Nov 26, 2002 03:35am | #3

   >> In my book, 3/4" is not real butcher block ...

   Neither is 1-1/4" or 1-1/2". In real butcher block, the individual pieces of wood are vertical, so the end grain forms the working surface. I don't think I've ever seen one less than 16" thick. Of course this wouldn't leave a lot of room in your base cabinets.

1. 
   Mongo | Nov 26, 2002 08:21am | #4

   Finally...someone besides me on this forum realizes that butcher block comes in only one version...end grain!<g>

   Smitty, for your laminated, maple strip countertop<g>, if it's only 3/4" thick, then I'd recommend backing it with 3/4" ply. If you have a DW, be careful with letting the DW spew hot steam on the edge of the countertop. It'll eventually ruin the finish, discolor the wood, and raise the grain on the maple...with all of that possibly leading to localized delamination.

2. 
   strider7tk | Nov 26, 2002 09:55pm | #8

   Uncle Dunc and Mongo are right about true butcher block; when I cooked for money, we had a piece that was ancient, probably 24" thick and at least 30" x 30". Weighed more than I can guess... The end grain is, of course, much harder than lengthwise grain. My "hard maple" countertops dent and scratch easier than I expected, they are not endgrain up. If it were just me (and not my wife), I would use mineral oil and cut right on them, sand them once every few years.

1. 
   Ragnar17 | Nov 27, 2002 12:36am | #9

   Mineral oil is what I've always been told to use, as well.

3. 
   Lateapex911 | Nov 26, 2002 09:41am | #5

   I fabricated one for my parents about 15 years ago.  Still looks great.  It was 1.5" thick, but it was only 24" wide. So I ran the grain front to back...just to emphasise the " butcher blockness" of it all.

   Perhaps you can make the edge thicker, but use 3/4" ply for the main area as a cost saving technique.

   Also, as to finishing.  I think you should research this a bit.  When I worked in a kitchen, we used to clean our butcher block nightly with white vinegar, and then oil it.  I oiled my parents, but it never sees the use ...well, any use, really!  So it still loks great.  Sorry to say I can't remember what kind of oil....not 10-40 obviously! A little search will give you plenty of info, probably.

   Also...don't those vertical blocks look great?!

   Jake

1. 
   bobl | Nov 26, 2002 03:52pm | #6

   mineral oil?bobl          Volo Non Voleo      Joe's cheat sheet

4. 
   goldhiller | Nov 26, 2002 07:04pm | #7

   Not meaning to bristle anyone here, but IMO, the 3/4" ply support notion shouldn't be used for this countertop and here's why.............It will deny the underside of the countertop access to the same atmospheric moisture levels as the top and consequently will encourage the boards in the countertop to cup by preventing the free exchange of moisture. And, if there's a sink involved, it provides a trap for any water that may now or eventually leak in between the two layers.

   As far as support goes………….IF your cabinets have face frames, something like this should work out for you………. I'd use a series of cleats on the underside......say about 1 1/4"x2 1/2", or so(on edge of course), made of a stout strong hardwood, appropriately slotted for the screws/lags to allow for movement. This approach will allow the underside of the countertop to breathe. I'd likely place these about every 24" - 30" if the cabs and drawers will allow. There's no such thing as too many cleats in this instance. If you try the oversized screw hole approach with this, you won't have squat left for movement at the end of a 3" screw unless you really oversize those holes and then use a washer under the screw head. Either way, think this all out ahead before you cut those cleats to width so that you don't have to modify available fasteners to length to get what you need. As it is, about all the penetration you're going to get is 1/2" into the countertop, so make the most of it by drilling proper pilot holes.

   These cleats can also be used to mount the countertop to the cabinet sides if they're positioned just right. I'd probably locate the countertop on the cabs and then mark alongside the cabs to accurately define where the cleats need to be. Then mount the cleats and reinstall. And yes, be careful to stay out of the way of the drawers and any drawer hardware with the cleats. This will likely preach to you about the maximum dimensions of those cleats.

   I'd be laminating some additional thickness to the front edge to avoid the anemic look. Profile it with a router or shaper and you'll have a dressier look, but be careful not to use a profile that catches dirt and makes for difficult cleaning.

   As for finish, I'd choose the mineral oil finish for practicality as it can be sterilized with a light application of bleach water or powdered bleach. If you choose to use an oil-base poly for a more glamorous look, be prepared to be anal about the care of it as one little slit with a knife and eventual finish failure in that area is nearly unavoidable. (You won't find a poly finish in a working chef's kitchen or in a restaurant.) Whatever finish you choose, treat both sides of the countertop equally with one exception….even if you choose the oil finish approach…..it's mandatory that you seal the edges of any sink cutout and the back edge of the countertop if no integral backsplash is involved, with several coats of oil-base poly or spar varnish.

   Whatever you do......DO NOT glue this maple countertop to a piece of ply as it would surely split the countertop when it needs to move.

   Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.

   
   

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   Edited 11/26/2002 10:55:39 PM ET by GOLDHILLER