This doesn’t strictly fall under the heading of ‘business,’ but there’s a lot of real estate knowledge I’d like to tap, here.
There’s a property we’d be very interested in considering for our next home. If we were to buy it, I imagine that it would be our family’s home for a very, very long time.
It’s all plus with the exception of a very big con: it was, previously, a grow-op. Which is why we could afford it.
Our real estate agent says STAY AWAY, because it’s a stigmatized property. Huh.
I dunno. . . It’s all we want in a house (and a bit more) at a discount. In ten or twenty years, do you think it’ll matter to people that it was once a hydroponic operation?
Edited 10/28/2008 8:28 pm ET by Biff_Loman
Replies
"it was, previously, a grow-up."
I have never heard of that term.
Was it a children's day care?
A place where pot was grown under lights?
A house that had a number of additions and there never thought out and just kind of stuck here or there?
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Edit: A heck, I had a typo. Woops.Might be a regional thing.Grow-op = pot plants in the basement. For whatever reason, it makes the place stigmatized. For the life of me, I can't figure out why, especially because the basement (previously finished) has been taken back to bare concrete. Otherwise, the house has seen minimal renovations, and seems very close to it's original incarnation. It's a bungalow from the early '60s. Three bedroom, one bath on the main floor with rough-ins for a bath in the basement. Hardwood floors, garage, double drive. . . It's all good stuff.
Edited 10/28/2008 8:28 pm ET by Biff_Loman
There are some people that won't buy a house if someone died in it. Even through natural causes.
Me, I'd low ball em because the RE agent has stigmatized it. Fewer potential customers. But I would definately make an offer
It's been on the market for six months. The selling RE agent actually told us "$xxxxx is only the asking price. Don't be afraid."Which is why I'm asking around, because our agent says not to touch it. C'mon, it can't be that bad.
LOL! If that's true, the houses of all my friends from my wild, hippie teenage years are "stigmatized"!
"Stigmatized" means hard to sell at a market price. If you're planning on being there for a long time, this might actually be a good thing, since it may mean a lower fair market value and keep your taxes down. By the time you sell it, years down the road, the "pot effect" should have worn off.
Unless, of course, you take up, er, "gardening" yourself. ;-)
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Plants give off a lot of water vapor. If that vapor is handled properly, no problem. If not, you have a major mold problem.So if you can really inspect the structure (look at the underside of the roof sheathing, the sub-floor, the inside of walls) then you might be fine.
The land my house is on was used for a substantial pot growing operation two owners before I bought it. The owners used the unfinished upstairs to dry the crop, hanging it from wires attached to the rafters. Its history has never been an issue with us.
How many people do you think even know that it was a "grow-op"? So what if it was, if your planning on keeping it for awhile people will have forgotten about its history long before you sell it.
Id say go for it!
We'd be legally obligated to divulge its history, forever.
"We'd be legally obligated to divulge its history, forever."Probably not. BUT the laws vary alot amount the states and I don't have any idea of Canada.Check with a local real attorney that handles real estate. .
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
That's just what our realtor told us.
I cant believe you would have to divulge its history, what does having been a "grow-op" have to do with the structure?
The laws in some state require disclosing a violate death in the house for so many years.And I have heard that in CA they require discloser on all kinds of stuff that is public and easy checked by anyone. Such as a school in the area or a tax increase that has been approved by not yet being billed for..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
So? Laugh it off.
Around here people are fearful of buying houses that were used as Meth Labs due to the hazardous chemicals that were present in the home
Good luck!
That is something completely different.
Meth houses are bad bad bad . XXXXXXX
Tim
tim,one more thing for a landlord to worry about.
so if i had a tennant and they cooked meth and moved or got caught, do you see this as something my insurance would cover? cleanup,teardown or what? because if i rented it back out and there was a problem,that would come back to my liability policy.
haven't dealt with this one yet ,but i'm sure it's coming.
hows rentals going there,i just had 2 release and had the best pick of renters i have had in 6-7 yrs.they all have a story ,but the only people i'm seeing talking about losing there home is 50 yr old and older,it's pretty sad.i think they had financed to the hilt to help there kids buy new houses and suburbans and it finally caught up with them. larryif a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
I have a feeling insurance wouldnt cover it like you . I had to sign terrorism papers they will not cover at all. That brought up some questions . It also had vandalism it would not cover and if the house was vaccant or somthing .
Rentals are doing very well. I believe its one of the best business in america right now for stability. It ranks along with light and water to me . It just takes so much inventory to make a living in it .
tim,did ya get caught up in the house cleaning? haven't seen y0u on here. everybody still trying to count all the missing in action.
i have a feeling theres going to be a lot of newbies before long.if a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
wouldn't bother me any.
I'm wondering if your realtor has any other underlying reasons for steering you in another direction.
I'm just guessing but I would think an environmental lab could check the place for toxins
i'd have zero issue with it... i'd just tell people... the previous owner loved plants and and a full greenhouse set up in the basement at one time... the old house that use to have speakeasys in the basement aren't an issue... just adds character to their history
but if it makes you get a better deal... go for it...
P
This would fall under the "criminal stigma", and disclosure is required in most every jurisdiction.
When I was gobbling up property in Wisconsin in the early-mid 90s, one of the properties I bought was stigmatized, same as yours, a pot growing operation. Nice house, great neighborhood, the owners had a basement operation.
Got a great deal, it's been a money-making rental ever since, and when I had everything valuated a couple of years ago it came in at typical comp value, even with the disclosure.
i've been down the road of a stigmatized house that had a murder in it. i did sell it at 30%below market,the guy that bought it figures he can live in it for 5 years and sell it and not tell anyone,i don't really know,but i tend to agree with him.but that is a different deal people don't like ghost's
as far as being a place where someone grew pot,that would probably apply to 25% of the houses at one time or another.
me,i'd make a great big deal out of it,talk about when you get ready to sell you can find someone as stupid as you. then i'd start at a offer that was so low it would be crimminal,with a statement in the contract that you know it's history and acceppt it.
this sounds like a deal i would be all over,and if i got it bought,i'd finish the basement and never say a word.live in it and enjoy the bargain. larry
if a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
Another thing to consider is after he buys it someday he will be remodeling the house and maybe he'll find some of the good stuff hidden away in a secret compartment in a closet or maybe up in the attic somewhere.Just kidding. lol
i should also throw this out,instead of the statement of acknowledgement on the contract,wouldn't hurt to be a seperate paper.bank doesn't really need to see that do they?
if a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
Larry,I went to a garage sale recently about half a mile from my house and they had a 1970's Winnebago. It had to be one of the largest RVs ever made.It must have been 40 to 50 ft long(It was bigger than the basement apartment I lived in after I got a divorce)Anyway, these people bought it brand new for $100,000 !!!!And now they are selling it for $5,000 if I remember correctlyIt runs.I walked through it and it's nice.Did you go to that garage sale?Would you be interested in the Winnebago?I apologize to the OP for the thread drift.
i already have one of those in my backyard,it's a airstream mh,cost in 89 was 107k,in case you get the bug to burn some gas call me10k and it's yours,i'll even fill the tank to get ya home.lol larryif a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
Be very wary of mold problems, not at all uncommon in grow-op houses. Can be harmful to your health!
I'd ask for a bigger discount because of the history of the place. Once you raise that issue and the seller knows you are aware, they might lower their price for you.
I wouldn't give it five seconds thought. Pot is actually a much healthier drug than most drugs in the drugstore.
"Recently upgraded electrical! Better than day-light basement! Extremely relaxing rec-room!"
I know of a couple around here (New Brunswick) that were sold, and there are people living in them now.
I think the big thing is you'll have to deal with mold issues and moisture, once you've dealt with that, you'll be fine. Obvious things like floors (did they cut holes for ventilation?) and how badly they butchered the electrical.
If the structure is sound, and the mold is dealt with, and it's what you want, you'll probably get a good deal.
Wasn't last week's Holmes on Homes about a former grow op?
The only problem i could see might be from a legal standpoint. Here in the States, property used to be taken in drug cases by a maneuver where the government went after the property 'responsible' for the offense rather than the actual offender (i.e., Federal Government vs. Bob's house, Bob's cash, Bob's car, etc.). Since the property couldn't speak for itself, it was deemed 'guilty' and ownership was transferred. Kind of an eminent domain without compensation.
Problem was, an actual crime didn't have to occur. People carrying large amounts of cash lost it without being charged, just out of suspicion. Or someone with a lot of acreage could lose their house and property if someone planted herb on an isolated patch without their knowledge.
You might check to see if there's a legal tag to the property (similar to a lien) because of its past 'discretions.'
I'd go for a low ball bid as suggested - after checking out the true rep of the place with the local constable. Go talk with the pulleece and tell them you wanna buy it but wonder about this, "rumor."
They'll tell you if it had other activities other than growing some medical marywanna.
And be sure your title company has it's eyes crossed and tee's dotted to keep you clean if'n some past legal thing creeps in.
As you say, it's a piece that you REALLY like.
I too would make a real low ball offer and if accepted.. the very next day I'd go meet with the local police and introduce yourself..
Explain that you are aware of the previous history and want to assure them no such thing will ever occur again..
Extend a blanket invite for them to come over any time. They likely won't because they have other priorities but by being upfront and open to them you forestall any suspicion.
I'd be carefull if I bought indoor growing lights or bulk fertilizer though..
Nope, would not be scared of that at all. Meth lab yes due to the EPA issues but no issue with a grow house. Cleans right up and is safe so whats the difference between that and someone spilling fuel oil in back yard? Just the fact no one tells about the oil issue. Anyway, low ball the price by 30-50% and see what happens. DanT
"Extend a blanket invite for them to come over any time. They likely won't because they have other priorities but by being upfront and open to them you forestall any suspicion."
In a democracy, it is not a citizens duty to forestall the police's suspicion. Why would anyone extend a blanket invitation for the police to drop by their house?
I have problems with hall moniters, er cops.
However I also know that I'm honest and decent.. So to me simply introducing myself and being open about who I am and etc.. is wise policy.
As far as my offer you do realize that I am still protected by unreasonable search and siezure laws.. Thus cops are required to obtain a court order to search private premises. By offering an invitation cops natuarly suspicious mind is toned down as much as it can be and if your conduct is open and above board they will eventually figure out that you aren't the same person who grew the weed.
My place has been a speakeasy, a brothel, scene of illegal gambling, stabbings, shootings, drug dealing...colorful history. Al Capone and his cronies were visitors. It was a hotel, restaurant and dance hall... now my home and shop.
I may turn it into a B&B and the history both dark and bright are assets in my case.
First, I am a RE agent and a contractor, don't deal with buyers much but do investments often.
I would go for it. Who owns the property? Government? Bank? How long has it been on the market? Get your RE agent to give you good condition comps on the property so you know what it could sell at if in good shape without the history. Get statements or reports from the police as to the house's past. Get ammo to get the price down. If your agent does not want to do the work and offers, get a different agent who works with investors.
Offer 50% of list, get a rejection?, offer 55% then 60% and so on. The owner may eventually tell you what is their bottom line is and you then decide if you want it at that price. In the offer - reserve your rights for Unlimited Due Diligence (inspection option B in MO) which allows you to basically drop the contract if you find a major problem.
Get an environmental inspection and an electrician to inspect the electrical. I would worry about mold/mildew and the electrical system if they added lots of lights with bad connections and over taxed the system. Be ready to replace a lot of wiring and drywall. Otherwise get a good inspection because the past owners probably did not do ANY maintenance on the place and let things go.
As far as disclosure of the criminal history... if you live there for 15 years... your memory of when you bought the house may not be so good. This happens in RE all the time.
Go for it and good luck.
-Day
Edited 10/29/2008 1:34 pm ET by restorationday
your negotiation is a bit weak..
apparently this place is not selling so once you make an offer do not ever raise it.. (unless external events change)
Put the offer out there at a price you can live with and let the seller (nonseller in this case) squirm untill they make a counter offer..
You're in your strongest position if you do not respond to their counter offer but let the counteroffer lay..
When they call for your response repeat your original offer.. Their actions at this point tell you everything.. If they lower the counter closer to yours, just sit.. If they counter with the same counter (or go up) the sale price at this point is their first counter offer, they are simply playing your game..
Now you can decide if you want it enough to come up to their original counter or want to wait and see.
Wait and see works the vast majority of the time when things aren't selling and they have no other offers.. it doesn't work at all in a sellers market..
Just remember speed interfers with getting a great deal..
Frenchy has some good advice biff, don't know if you read it.
What you say is true, but it does not always work like that with bank or government owned properties. I deal with them quite often. Banks have internal rules and formulas that don't always make sense and they have to stick to to keep their investors happy. Iowa law says that a bank can not take less than 82% of the current appraised value and many places in the Midwest use that as a standard. Banks use a formula and arrive at a number that they will not take less than and try not to release that number with hopes of getting a better offer. I have seen a home sit on market for years (yes, years) because that bank would not take less than 92% list and the home was not worth that all the while it was bleeding money. Banks don't always counteroffer either, they don't want to bid against themselves. I put in an offer once on a house at 60% CAV and got a rejection. The home had been on market for 6 months and had had ten offers from different investors. In talking to the Loss Manager at the bank he let slip that they had to have 63% at minimum because that is what their formulas said. (I think he was angry at the whole thing and wanted the house gone) I offered 63% and got the property. It was a matter of $2,000, not much in the grand scheme of what I sold the house at.Got to go... More later
-Day
Edited 10/29/2008 9:16 pm ET by restorationday
Cool.I think we might just have to find out about who's selling this thing. I'm starting to get a good kinda feeling.
My father was an electrician in a former career, and my father-in-law was a sparky for 40 years before he recently retired.I'm pretty fearless when it comes to doing electrical work on my place, because both of them look over my shoulder. Passing inspection would not be a problem. . .
So you never said. Are the lights still there? The drywall buckets? Sweep up the seeds and..ah nevermind.
All kidding aside. It's no big deal, you're in Canada for christ's sake. Some weed? Lowball them, see where it goes.
I'd live in a house where a gruesome murder happened if the price was right. Statistically speaking, what's the chance of another one?
In fact, my neighbor's house just sold after a suicide in the garage. 500k and the new owners knew, they should've lowballed.
The main thing I would be concerned about is the electrical system. Have this checked out by a real electrician (not a home inspector).
These grow ops tend to have a lot of bootleg electrical work for the lights. They may have compromised the wiring.
Well, there are a few things to consider.
The first is that you might very well have to leave a deposit, and jump through other hoops, to get the utilities restored.
Then, you will have to deal with a steady parade of folks coming to the door, thinking the place is 'back in business.' You might even awaken to find several shady folks camping in the back yard. Occasionally some angry ape will show up, looking for the former occupants. And, naturally, there will be the persistant narc who will insist that someone told him you could get 'the good stuff.'
On the plus side ..... after a few months of paece and quiet, with you going off to work every day, the neighbors will come over and introduce themselves .... delighted to see they have a 'normal' neighbor at last.
I have dealt with all this, and more, as the direct result of the criminal activities that formerly operated out of my duplex. Now, I happen to be the 'speak softly and carry a big gun' sort, and willing to deal with it. Others are not.
ALSO: Chat with local law enforcement. If the place was also used as a meth lab, you might have some serious cleaning issues to hire out.
Dave's not here man.
thats funny right there, I don't care who you are!
Bill,
I am also in Ontario. The current provincial laws will place any outstanding bills or charges against the new buyer of a property that was used for a grow-up. You need to get your lawyer to obtain all the sign-offs and triple check them yourself if you still want to proceed. I've seen some of these purchases proceed cleanly if done carefully.
I imagine that it would be our family's home for a very, very long time.
Then what would it matter? The recent history of the place would surely not have much effect on it's value, particularly after ten years or so.
This business of the house being stigmatized by association with something as natural and acceptable as marijuana sounds like a lot of hysteria to me.
I would be on a lookout for mould. If it was a big operation with hundreds of plants there i was lots of humidity.
Mike HOlmes the golden boy of HGTV Canada just rebuilt a grow op house. Poor women rented her house, got it back trashed and full of ####. Then she found out it was also ladden with asbestos.
Buyer beware
Cliffy
Bill, Haven't read through all the posts, but unless you are prepared to strip it down to the studs and start all over again, run.
http://www.haverkate.ca/grow_house.htm
Extreme humid conditions cause extensive mould growth throughout these buildings. Mould growth resulting from these conditions are considered extremely hazardous due to their toxigenic nature. Species of mould growth found in these buildings in most cases posses mycotoxins which can be extremely hazardous and life threatening for anyone who enters these structures. In many cases mould growth is growing inside wall cavities out of sight without any indication of a problem or any visible signs of moisture damage.
In many cases these homes pose a structural and mechanical hazards as well as a fire hazard due to the modifications made to sustain the illegal operation.
i'm just being a smartaz here,but i'm not going to believe any report that can't spell the word MOLD!!!
i know your going to tell me thats how its spelled in canada. thats whats wrong up there . larryif a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
:), yeah, I agree there lots that wrong up here. For years we have bellyached about our tax policies that do no allow us to deduct interest on morgage payments etc and how our banks / morgage companies don't lend out as easily as in the US. It stopped us from buying huge homes and living the high life on credit.... why can't we have more progressive tax laws like the US, we all cried to government..
But as least we don't bark like dogs when pronouning roof. LOL
P.S. Love your personal quote - may I borrow it to give to my husband? It's his life motto.
But as least we don't bark like dogs when pronouning roof. LOL
That's a mid-western pronunciation that many of us down here also get a kick out of, or...out of which many of us get a kick down here. ;-)
P.S. I spent two summers at a canoe camp in Western Ontario when I was a kid. Came back home adding a U to several words, colour as an example. Thought I'd been brain washed by youse guys.
Edited 10/31/2008 11:57 am by Hudson Valley Carpenter
The only stigmatized property that matters in Colorado residential are the meth lab properties.
I don't know what sort of contamination could result from growing house plants, legal or not.