The skid steer and backhoe thread got me thinking too.
Have been looking for a small tractor to grade with and very light usage. What does everyone think about the ones they sell at like Northern Tool for around $6-7k? I know they are generic brands but they are new and they do ship for free and I probably would only use it once a month or so.
Or is it worth kicking out the extra cash for a decent used one? I just can’t seem to find anything for under $10k
Replies
I'll sell you my totaly rebuilt and repainted (by the dealer) B7100 4wd Kubota (16 hp diesel) with a 4 way front dozer blade, a 5' back blade, 5' flail mower, 6' landscape rake, and rear 3 point hitch shovel for 6 grand.
Although it's 30 years old, it looks brand new.
It's in Michigan.
I used it to turn my 10 acre piece of woods into a home and then for snow plowing. You gots lots of snow down there, don't you? Using both the front blade and back blade when grading or snowplowing, makes short work of the process.
Does great at grading gravel drives.
If I had six grand to spare, I might be saddling up to go pick that up.
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I kinda wish I could keep it, but really, I no longer have a need...
And neither does the kid.
There was a good thread on exactly this topic earlier this year. Lots of good ideas, experiences etc.
One thing that I recall is that there's still parts available for the ubiquitous small Ford tractors from fifty-sixty years ago. Those nice machines are still around, running fine and they're priced very reasonably too. Just the thing for running a rear mower, brush hog or a scraper blade.
One of my neighbors had one for many years, a model 8N I believe, bought it at a good price and resold it for just as much, ten years later. I used it to mow around his pond once every summer, to earn my swimming rights. Did some snow plowing with it too. Or snow pushing. Solid and reliable.
Edited 10/31/2008 1:45 pm by Hudson Valley Carpenter
Let me agree with you.. those old Fords are charished and covetted by many.. The premiere one was the 8N which instead of the model A flathead engine was a V8 flathead.
Both engines are really a durable engine capable for running seemingly forever. and parts for it are still available from several sources..
A 8N is Highly coveted and worth $20,000 plus to collectors. But unless you're really into collecting tractors the previous models are great machines and extremely versitile..
I had an 8N and they didn't have a V8, it was 4 cyl.
Where the hell do you come up with this stuff?
Edit to add" n's can be had for 2500-3000 bucks all over around here.
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Edited 10/31/2008 1:27 pm ET by Sphere
There were a couple conversion kits for the 8N to install a flathead V8 (as well as the Ford flathead six) although it wasn't an option offered from the factory. One was called the Funk, and I believe there were others. I've even seen pictures of at least one 8N equipped with a flathead V-12 out of a Lincoln.
I Know, I've seen em modified, but Frenchy seems to think they came with a flat head 8, which ain't so.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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Sorry Stuart read my post to Sphere..
Shelac fumes must be getting to him. Those old Ford 8N's, Massey 35's and Farmalls are a dime a dozen.
8n's, 9n's, and Jubilee's are all over here, I may get another Jubilee, they are getting more scarce I've noticed.
I bought my last one for 2200.00 ( had a PTO clutch, for bushhoggin, it killed the PTO when ya stepped on the clutch) and other than brakes and a clutch, I didn't do much to it for 5 yrs of beating the snot outta it. Then sold it for 2500.00 when I moved outta state.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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Ditto on the 8N. Around here you can pick up a good running machine for about 2K-2.5K. Another plus is that parts a readily available and comparatively inexpensive. Hope the ex is having fun on mine.A lot of the electric stuff can be had off the shelf at the NAPA store. I too think Frency's a little whacked out at the 20K price unless it is gold plated and diamond encrusted.Todd
I've never seen an 8n sell for more than about 4000 or 5000 even restored. Usually they go for around 3500.00 in decent shape. But hey, I'm in Ga. where owning a tractor is a right of passage!
Maybe, I need to be buying these up and trucking them to Frenchy.
dug
I sold mine to guy in Ga, maybe you got it? LOLSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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If you do the research you will find that Ford indeed did produce some V8 engined tractors and while factory original ones are rare they do command that sort of price..
If you go on satellite TV and tune into RFDTV there is a program called classic tractors which will give you full details of those..
there are allso severla books available from classic motorbooks that have the exact details..
I can't believe I know something about tractors you don't!
I,ve seen almost every episode of that show, and owned the tractor in question, and have no plan of getting into it with you..you just keep on like a bad headache when ya get an idea in your head..and I have a life , so I'd rather not watch you back track out of a statement over 20 posts, about how you now say SOME have a V8 and SOME command that price..
I'm sure I had a Chevy Vega with a V8 in Highschool too, it doesn't mean it was worth 20k Or was actually sold with aV8 as standard option..sheesh.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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Sphere well once again you are wrong.. the Chevy Monza was a restyled Vega and it was offered from the factory with a V8 ( I bought one)
You're right about the price, they were cheap, if I recall it was about $3,500 at dealer cost in 1975
Ok . I had a Gremlin with a 360. bolted right up, I also still have my oem peterbuilt,standing and singing..you still talk out the wrong end.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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Forn never made a 8N with an 8. There were lots of conversions to the flathead 8, but the only thing that came out of the factory was a 4.
Here is a link for engine rebuild kits for the 8N, see any for an 8 cyl.?
http://www.ytmag.com/cgi-bin/store/model_parts.cgi?SearchArea=FORD&md=8N&cat=kits
Since you are telling the rest of us to do our research, where is your proof on the factory 8?
A.
Ford made a V8 (flathead) powered farm tractor.. similar to the 8N they are rare hence the value of them.. I am well aware of the aftermarket conversions but the bell housing is wrong or differant etc. The real Ford collectors can tell you the differances like experts can tell you if a given part is correct for a particular car..
My 1930 Model A Ford pickup had a polished stainless steel radiator shell. A real Ford part but not correct for the pickup (they were all painted).
People willing to pay premiums for a tractor want everything exactly correct, right down to the last nut and bolt having the correct head markings etc.. I wish I could explain the mind set of a collector willing to pay such a premium. Something that looks similar isn't wanted.. It must be exactly correct.
I shouldn't doubt that they don't list parts for the V8. The rare part needed is likely to be far too expensive to inventory on the shelf.. It is after all a regular Ford flathead V8 and parts for automobles would be much cheaper than the extremely rare unit sold for use in a tractor.
Just for information if you want they sell complete new crankshafts, connecting rods etc.. for that 4 cylinder & V8 engine . (made in China by SCAT) It's possible to increase the HP of that 4 cylinder from 40HP. up to over 100 hp and have a far more durable and reliable engine.. The flat head can go from 80HP up to 250 HP with the same increase in duribility and reliablity..
Frenchy, I stand corrected. You were correct about the 8 cylinder 8N's. I was sure you had a couple too many when you wrote the first post. Especially about the collectors prices.I googled 8N,8cylinder and got a wealth of information.
Next time I doubt you ,if ever ,I'll do a more thorough search.
mike
I apologize to those who were offended by the information I tried to convey.. I understand how confusing data like that can be and know that most were simply speaking about their experiance which certainly was valid,,..... for them..
I also realize I could have been more definative and helpful as to exact details however this is one of those little trivia bits that I have planted in that messy drawer called the mind..
Thank you for confirming the information and I do hope to some degree it was helpful.
Do you have any links to the pages you found?
I also goodled 8N 8 cylinder, and can only find conversions. Nothing about facotry installed.
What exactly would you be doing with the tractor?A lot of folks have brought up the old Ford "N" series tractors. But if you plan to do any mowing I would stay away from them. Their biggest drawback is the lack of a 2 stage clutch. Another big problem is lack of position control on the 3 point hitch.If you like older tractors, something like a Ferguson TO-35 would be a good choice. They have a 2 stage clutch, and have more gears than the Fords. I would NOT consider an older tractor like these if you want a loader. They don't have the hydraulics for it..If you want to move up a little farther a tractor that was built in the 1960s might be a good choice. Maybe an MF 135, or something along those lines. You could probably pick on up for $5,000 to $7,500. I don't think much of the cheap tractors, like the ones you mentioned from Northern Tool. One of the most important things to keep in mind for equipment is parts availability and service. Where would you get parts for one of those things?What also might be important is what you yourself actually LIKE. If you've driven a particular brand or driven one that belongs to a friend, that might be the one to go for. Life is too short to have a tractor you don't really like.(-:
When in doubt, make it sound convincing.
"Life is too short to have a tractor you don't really like."
Another one for the classics.
Life is too short to have a tractor you don't really like.
Then why are you still driving red ones?
Bite me.(-:
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Bite me is no longer accepted here on the new & improved board.
Life's too short for cheap beer too.
Joe H
Frenchy, I think you flipped your lid! I had an 8N for twenty years. Sold it for $800.00 in 1986.Four cylinder flat head, one barrel Marvel carburetor, 6 volts generator.
The power takeoff was only 1-1/8" but adapters are made for 1 -3/8". I forgot the hp but if I recall it was 23 or 27 hp measured at PT.
There were something like 90,000 8N's made from 1949 to 1951.I believe the most farm tractors of any one model ever made. They are not worth $20,000 to anybody,certainly not to a collector who should know what their worth.I am still amazed that some 8N's are going for $2500.00 or so. I believe when they were new they ran under $1000.00. I bought mine in 1965 for $375.00.Even the Jubilee ( 8N with two transmissions) isn't worth a lot of money. Many of these are still in use as the primary tractor for planting, because of the extra slow speed obtained.
Some parts are still available,others like steering gears have to be found at old tractor homes or junkyards.
mike
I came across this place a few years back: http://www.n-complete.com They sell refurbished Ford 9N/2N/8N/Jubilee tractors, and have them listed for sale on their website in the $10,000 range, depending on model.
I can certainly imagine someone spending more money than that to restore one...that's a pretty common occurence when restoring old vehicles of any kind. To do a first class job, more often than not it costs more than the vehicle is worth. I've done it a few times myself.
Edited 10/31/2008 8:06 pm by Stuart
Mike,
Ford made a V8 version which is highly covetted by tractor collecters. There are aftermarket kits available to put V8's in them but they won't cammand anywhere near what the factory ones will properly restored..
You need to understand the differance between repainted and fixed up and properly restored. It's not uncommon for someone to spend $30,000 for a extremely well done restoration on a certain tractor.. So selling it at $20,000 the owner may be taking a $20,000 loss.. Now no farmer will spend anywhere near that sort of money in his barn over the winter but if you have a professional shop with a national reputation do the work those sorts of numbers aren't that uncommon..
The same applies to Cars, trucks, and many other things.
If you watch the Barret Jackson Auctions you frequently hear about cars that have $200,000 spent on their restoration selling for a mere $80,000 or some such thing..
Making big money on a restoration is rare indeed.. the more usual approach is to lose money..
90,000 made? Try over 500,000.
There were around 90,000 of the 9N's made
A lot of tractors for a short period of time. I thought 90000 was about right but I'll defer to your 500000 figure. Also, Frenchy is correct, there were a small amount of 8N tractors made with 8 cylinders.
mike
Here is a history of the 8N:
http://home.att.net/~jmsmith45/idhistory.htm
No mention of a factory 8 cyl. He goes into a lot of detail on all the serial numbers.
Edited 11/3/2008 8:09 am ET by Island Angus
We picked up a slightly used Kubota BX 23 loader w backhoe for under $10K in North Dakota. I think it is only a couple of years old. Love the thing and can't believe how strong it is. We are amazing what is has done. It replaced an old Yanmar 1950's tractor which was so hard to handle and was constantly breaking down, parts were hard to find etc. This one handles like a dream, even I can drive it. So far no major repairs, just general maintenance. We've put on about 300 hours in the last few months.
Sorry don't know specs on it, but I have attached a picture
Any idea on the reach of the backhoe?
"The inherent vice of capitalism is the uneven division of blessings while the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal division of misery" Sir Winston Churchill
Not 100% sure - 9- 10 feet, maybe, the Kubota website will give you specifications.
I've got a Kubota also and would recommend it heartily.
Butttttttttt, you will have to pay a good price to get a good used one.
A smaller {weight and/or horsepower} four wheel drive or front wheel assist tractor will out work an 8N. I used to have the next size smaller than the B7100 { B6200} and I could move more snow or dirt than my FIL could on his 8N.
I now have a 24 HP model and love it. I sold the 22 year old one for 75% of what I paid for it.
Good luck with whatever you buy. I believe that you will have a real problem getting parts for any of the Chinese tractors.{ Nortrac & Montana are two I've seen around the KC area.}
Good dealer support is invaluable. As mentioned by others, parts for the Fords are readily available, as are Kubota parts.
Chuck
Yeah but, does your Kubota have a V8..? LOLSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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No gas turbine.http://www.antiquefarm.org/mainsite/museum/turbine_tractor.html
i saw a kubota with a hemi the other day,sweeeeet
hemi wasmounted about 15 ft infront in the truck pulling it does that count? if a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
Someone mentioned this already, but a newer model (after maybe 1990 or so??) diesel 4WD compact tractor will outwork an 8N any day.
My John Deere is only 20 HP, but with a loader, live hydraulics, hydrostatic drive, etc...it's way more useful. I don't know what I would do without it.
Jamie
You're probably right jamie. However some people like the old stuff and would rather have it..
It somehow seems a better deal to some to have that a neat old vehicle with history than a newer one without any soul..
I know that's why I collect cars.
Ha, you're right.
For instance, I am looking for an old M John Deere, but in the crawler model. Why? No clue...seems like it would be way cool to drive around and take to shows. :) Also would remind me of running a D7 Cat for my dad, I suppose...
Peace,
Jamie
I'm with Jamie: Grew up with an 8N. Rebuilt the carb darn near every year. It was a modified model A engine if I recall properly and straight 4. Rebuilt most of that tractor more than 1 time. It was a great tractor and we sold it for $1,600 to help pay for my sisters wedding. (Dad had gone bankrupt and was basically out of touch with reality so it was up to the rest of us to come up with some money to help out)
I now have a Kubota B7100 with front end loader and backhoe. I would not trade it for an 8N for several reasons.
1. The Kubota is worth more
2. The 16 HP diesel with a small footprint can slip into the tightest of spaces and do a ton of stuff
The Kubota has been dependable and starts every time. It is very old but keeps on ticking. I'm a JD guy and own 3 of them for yard mowing (and collecting) but the Kubota is my work tractor and digs footings and small trenches, Moves stone and small loads of dirt, brushhogs, etc with much more effeciency than I would have ever guessed. If you bought an older used decent condition tractor for $6-$9K I think you would be better off than buying a new one from northern freight.
I would stick with good names like Kubota, John Deere, newer Yanmar (great engines and they make many of the small diesels that JD uses) and I am sure there are a few other manufacturers that have good equipment as well.
Craigslist is a good place to start because stuff is getting sold lately due to the economy at good prices.
If one buys an 8N Ford do not go down a hill with a load because you won't have to twice. I would much rather own a Ford Major or something else.
I have thought about getting an old Ford 8N, but only for fun - I would never expect it to do much serious work. The newer compact tractors have much better accessories available and most of them come with 4wheel drive - which is particularly useful on the smaller compacts. I have a 1980 Ford 1900 tractor, which is pretty much a re-badged Shibota (Japanese) tractor. I think Shibota continued to make the compact tractors for New Holland after they took over the Ford line.I haven't followed compact tractor developments for the last five years or so, but at that time there was a flood of "gray market" tractors - particularly Yanmar - available on the market. Yanmars are good tractors, but the parts availability for the gray market Yanmars is problematic. Yanmar did import tractors into this country before they withdrew in favor of building the small tractors for John Deere. Parts for those earlier Yanmars are generally available through some John Deere dealers. I have two "legal" Yanmars - a YM 155D and a YM 186D. It was said some time ago that Yanmar built better engines but Kubota built better tractors. The Yanmars are getting pretty old but are probably among the best of older tractors available for cheap. There are also some Shibota gray market tractors around, but only a few of the parts from the Ford Shibota based tractors will fit on the gray market Shibotas. There are a couple of other Japanese gray market tractors, but they generally have very little support in this country and don't have great reputations. If you buy an older tractor, you really need parts availability. The same is true for even new tractors as something is still likely to break or wear out at some point. I would question the parts availibility of the off-brand tractors from China and India being imported into the US. I know nothing about the India built tractors, but the earlier Chinese tractors had a pretty bad reputation for reliability and the ability to get them repaired. There are a number of compact tractor and older tractor discussion boards on the Internet. Two that come to mind are:
http://tractorbynet.com/forums/index.php
http://www.ssbtractor.com/wwwboard/compact_tractors.html
However, if you just type in the name of a compact tractor and the term "discussion" you can generally find active discussion boards. I did a quick search of the Internet and there are a number of discussions of Ford 8N conversions, including ones done by dealers, but no mention of any done by the factory. One such conversion is:
http://home.att.net/~jmsmith45/funk.htm
Why?
Brakes? one way clutch? why does down hill cause a problem?
I got the scare of my life when I was a kid and the Ford would not stop until a long distance when I was pulling a heavy trailer. I had to stand on the brake pedal. The John Deere we had would stop much easier. The braking system is much different. The brakes on the Ford are much like the old mechanical brakes were in trucks. On the Deere one could easily lock up the brakes.The Ford steers much differently too. If one likes to keep their wrists and arms do not buy an old Ford. Hit the first rock or edge of anything and watch the steering wheel jerk your arm. If one had a loader it would be nearly impossible to steer it. The 8N is great for light duty work such as scraping manure on a concrete slab because it turns quickly.If I were to buy a Ford, I would buy a Ford Major which makes an 8N look like junk. The Ford Major is a far different tractor.
Edited 11/1/2008 7:36 pm by gb93433
were the brakes in good stopping order normally? And it was just a down hill event that caused them to fail?
I mean My Model A and the Model T I had both had mechanical brakes and while they were far from power brakes if they were properly maintained, the shoes were properly arced to the drums etc.. they were effective at stopping.
I know exactly what you are saying about the steering, Both my model A & my model T were wrist breakers if you hit a pot hole wrong or something in the road..
"were the brakes in good stopping order normally? And it was just a down hill event that caused them to fail?"I was pulling about four tons of fruit plus the weight of the trailer to a cannery. The brakes did not fail they just would not stop nearly as easily. I had to stand on the pedals and pull on the steering wheel while trying to steer the tractor. They are just a light duty tractor. Had a few VA series Case and some John Deere tractors for light work and there was a world of difference in power and handling ability.
I drove a Masse Ferguson that had oil on the shoes from leaking seals and those brakes were terrible. I've also driven Model A's with improperly adjusted brakes and they were very poor as well.
I've never hauled 4 tons down hill so I can't speak intelligently about brakes under those conditions but you are right the Ford doesn't have a leading shoe, trailing shoe arrangement so there is no self energizing function like most brake systems have. Thus you are in a position where pure mechanical force is all that stops the tractor.. That's fine when you are dragging one brake for a tight turn because it doesn't cause accelerated wear on the linings like a leading shoe trailing shoe arraignment would. By the early 1950's brakes had gone pretty much to twin leading shoe arrangements in automobiles but since tractors were basically Model A's they were stuck with 1928 technology..
I once had to ditch my Jubilee into a creek when the brake pads were soaked from a seal leaking oil into the drums, NOT fun. I was headed towards a neighbor's house, and my clutch was also pretty well shot..man , I headed to the creeek and pointed the nose down into it, and dumped it into nuetral ASAP.
I had it mostly for plowing and discing my pepper plot, about an acre, hauling goat poo, and hay for feeding the goats. It'd pull a 2 bottom 16" plow, but it was all she could do when the draft wasn't set right. Full plow and teh front end would come up, I steered with the brakes, cuz the tires up front were modified rims and had car tires on them..bad for steering at any speed, slow was almost impossible in loose soil.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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Come on Frenchy, you're the expert on any subject.
Ozlander
Far from it. While I've driven a number of Ford tractors I've never been warned of that before and never experianced it. That's why I asked..
Maybe he's referring to the PTO that will overrun the brakes instead of towing downhill?