Let me first say thanks to all the regular breaktime posters, I don’t post much, but I really enjoy reading the thoughtful discussions and seeing pictures. I hope I can give a little back by posting my journey through buying and fixing up my first home.
A little background first. I’m 27, been working full time for almost a year, and have rented all my life. I’ve been looking to buy a house but only pay $300/month in rent so I’ve been waiting for the right thing to come along. I’m your typical DIY guy so I wanted something small that I could fix by myself as time permitted, while living in the house as well. I’ve been under a contract for a couple of weeks. Since we signed the contract I’ve had a home inspection, a structural inspection, the septic tank pumped and inspected, the oil fired furnace inspected, and hope to have the chimney looked at on Saturday.
It’s an older home, built in 1972, and the previous owners did quite a bit of work themselves, most of which is not done very well. The current owners bought the house from an estate sale in May of last year and did a couple of things to it, then put it on the market.
Here’s the highlights from the home inspection:
- siding making ground contact in one spot
- deck on south side installed over siding, no flashing, and is pulling away from house
- 3 tab shingles aren’t installed properly
- pipe flashing for electric service is split
- Electrical is very shoddy, pieced together, no cover plates on some outlets, no ground on some receptables, loose wires with electrical tape on the ends in the attic
- abs directly connected to pvc
- wood paneling in bathroom shower
The previous owners dug out the dirt crawl space to about 7 feet on the lower half creating a dirt basement. In doing so they removed some piers that were over splices in the main girder. Also they dug out too much from the footings.
Here’s the highlights from the structural:
- one crack needs inspection of the footing to make sure the footing isn’t cracked
- soil cuts should not be deeper than the horizontal measurement from the cut to the adjacent footings. two sections of wall violate this rule
- serious structural concern where girder is not supported at the splices
Here’s the highlights from the HVAC:
- at least 20 years old
- no id plate anywhere!
- installed wrong, flue pipe has no rise in it
- heat exchanger proabably cracked
- pipe connecting furance to flue is almost too long
- minimum clearance to combustible materials violated
- threat of carbon monoxide poisoning
- does not recommend even using the furnace
Septic highlights:
- Pre-cast tank
- 1000 gallons
- baffle only of top
- 6×20 drainfield
- structure looked ok
- has been pumped
I hope you’ve made it this far, now for some pictures.
Edited 3/26/2009 10:11 pm ET by JoshRountree
Replies
Some of those items want to be remedied before you take ownership, OR you want to be adequately compensated for accepting them as-is. Some of them want to be more clearly defined. For instance, what specifically is wrong with the shingle installation? How bad is the electrical?
You might benefit from having contractors come out to price the repairs. Home inspectors rarely provide useful information about the cost of the fixes, and they often do not have a real grasp on what's wrong and what isn't. Of course, some of them are great and very experienced, but some are not. I inspected a house that a client is thinking of buying a few weeks ago. They already had a home inspector's report. Some of his items were accurate, some were not, and a few things he just plain missed. Part of my role was to price out the cost of repairs and remedies.
Do you have access to good contractors who can review the various systems? Sounds like you might want a roofer, an electrician, an HVAC guy...
Yeah, I prefer to have them lower the price. I'm going to meet with my realtor on Saturday morning to put together a repair request. I've had a HVAC guy give me a quote on a new system which includes updating the electrical panel. And, my realtor is a licensed contractor so he said he could help me out on figuring out what price to ask for.
I don't have access to any contractors, I wonder if anyone on Breaktime could provide a rough estimate on what kind of priced reduction I should ask for on each item.
One thing I forgot, it has a small amount of mold in the basement and the attic.
I have way more pictures if anyone is interested, and I can also post up the reports from the home inspector, professional engineer, and the hvac guy...if anyone wanted to look at them.
Edited 3/26/2009 10:26 pm ET by JoshRountree
Edited 3/26/2009 10:26 pm ET by JoshRountree
"I'd prefer to have them lower the price"
Don't prefer it, demand it. I've bought and sold several houses, all with some "fix up" issues and the ones where there was no price reduction with the seller in charge of correcting stuff was trouble from the get go.
First, you run the risk of not having the stuff fixed by closing time. Then money has to be escrowed. All well and good to say "Well then, don't close until everything's fixed" but in the real world you've probably had to give a 30 or 60 notice to vacate your rental, got your loan lined up and the committment may run out etc. Point being, nothing happens in a vacuum and this is a roof we're talking about, where everyone needs one over their heads everyday. You're not buying a big screen TV here, where if you don't have one for a month it's no big deal.
Second, the seller will be using tradesmen of his choice. Very likely they're the cheapest around which may be reflected in their work. You have no control over who he gets. If there's a price reduction and you are responsible for fixing stuff, you can get your own guys and also have the option of upgrading or having them doing other stuff that wasn't on the list on your dime. Example: HVAC. For the seller to replace it will probably be a minimal efficient unit. If you do it, you'll have the credit for the minimal unit of course but then you can talk to the contractor you select about upgrading to a higher SEER (if heat pump) or variable speed fan etc. with the seller out of the picture. With electrical you can have your guy fix everything on the list but then may want to talk to him about an extra outlet or two or that floodlight you might want. With the roofer you might want to upgrade to 30 year shingles. All the upgrades are on your dime of course but it muddies the water if the seller is still in the picture and his guys are doing the work.
Third, if you select the subs, for any warrenty work (like a just installed breaker keeps tripping for no apparent reason), you've been the guy who did the interview, signed the contract and signed the check. There's a stronger connection there. You're the boss, not a guy who might be in another state by then.
And if it does go the escrow route (again highly unrecommended) escrow much more then what the repairs are. Reason: If you escrow the same amount as the cost of the repairs, at closing the seller then has all the money he's ever going to get. Not much motivation here to speed things up or devote time and effort on your behalf.
Oh yeah, I keep saying "price reduction". There probably won't be a price reduction. The contract price will likely stay the same and there will be a seperate line item on the HUD form for this stuff. Reason?? The realtors want the selling price as high as possible= bigger commission. Shouldn't make much difference to you except maybe higher recording fees, but expect this.
Looks like a nice house. Good luck.
Runnerguy
I totally agree, it will be a price reduction. I'm not going to agree to have the seller fix anything because they have already said they had someone look at the electrical and make changes as needed. Also the water had to be turned on for the home inspection and the pipes leaked so he had a plumber out there to fix them and the PVC to ABS wasn't done with a fernco.
I could be totally wrong on this, but I thought the only issue with ABS to PVC connections was being sure the solvent used is suitable for both, and that at least the PVC was also cleaned/primed. I gather ABS does not require the cleaning step.
>>"And, my realtor is a licensed contractor so he said he could help me out on figuring out what price to ask for."Be quite careful here. In most states, the law says that the realtor is representing the seller -- even if you are the one who called the realtor.And even if you have a "buyer's agent" agreement with a realtor, don't forget that the realtor's money comes only as a percentage of the sale. So, in other words, the realtor is not likely to have your best interests in mind.
As for what kind of price break to ask...... its impossible to know without knowing a LOT more information. One example -- the pictures make this place look like its a bit off the beaten path. How far off, and how 'beaten' the path is, will make a difference in what contractors will want. Another example -- I'll gladly add supports beneath the girder at the splices. I'll charge somewhere between $800 and $28,000. Depends on what else I see, and what else I have to do.
Politics is the antithesis of problem solving.
Edited 3/27/2009 8:19 pm ET by JoshRountree
Edited 3/27/2009 8:19 pm ET by JoshRountree
round 2
Edited 3/27/2009 8:20 pm ET by JoshRountree
josh..... good luck.... welcome to the world of home ownership.
lot's of good advice
now... about your pics....
you posted 27 pictures with no description
why don't you take 3 of them... put them in a post and talk about them
then take 3 more.... put them in another post , and talk about them
let us know what we're looking at
i bet there's some good stuff there .... but it's kind of like an easter egg hunt the way it's presented
Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Sorry about that Mike. I was trying to get as much info out, probably too much.
Let's try this:
First picture is driving up the driveway to the house. You can see one of the decks. This deck faces south.
This is the north side of the house
The is a picture of how the shingles are improperly installed. The home inspector said they aren't on a 6 inch bond.
This is a picture of the south east corner. The professional engineer reccommend digging down the the footing to see if it is cracked. If it's cracked he reccommends pouring a new footer, or using helical piers. I'd re-pour the footing.
This is the deck that is not installed properly. Attached directly to the T1-11 siding, with no flashing.
This is where a pier was before they dug out the crawl space. They put galvanized poles in, but not under the splice, and no plate to distribute the load.
This is the oil burner, I emailed the company and they said it was made in April of 1991.
This is some of the mold beside the furnace. You can seem some discoloration from the improperly installed furance too.
This is the North wall. The northwest corner is to the left. This is one of the walls the engineer said needs to be repaired by either fill dirt/gravel, or building a small block wall.
This is the outside north wall. It looks like it drains well. I don't think any damage has been done to the foundation...yet
This is a picture of the west wall. You can see the footer on the left in the middle.
This is the living room, you can see the two windows in this picture, in picture #2
Picture of the kitchen. That door goes out to the south deck you can see in picture #1.
Fireplace, looks like it's been used heavily. Lots of wood piles around the property. Engineer isn't worried about the structure, probably needs a good cleaning. I'd like to put in a wood stove soapstone insert.
This is bedroom #1, in the southwest corner. There is a bathroom and stack washer/dryer closet right outside this door to the right, on the same side.
This is bedroom #2, in the northwest corner. Bathroom and washer/dryer are right outside.
This is the bathroom with the lovely wood surround. Probably need to promptly replace this, or just take baths, no showers...
Edited 3/27/2009 8:45 pm ET by JoshRountree
I read the engeneers report and the only thing he was worried about was the unsupported beam.
That can be repaired as he stated as long as there has been no settling.
I suggest some research on your part to actually determine the value. It sound like these people are flipping this house and are trying to make a large score!
If it was me and the values did check out, I would be tempted to buy, using that right of way to reduce the price I pay, considerably as at some point with 2 houses on one well you might find it necessary to drill a new well!
One thing I forgot to mention, I am 54 yrs old with oner 40 years of working on houses.
Edited 3/27/2009 9:01 pm ET by frammer52
josh.... i guess "not on a 6" bond" means they didn't shift from one course to the next
View Image
gullet over gullet is a big no-no
those bottom 4 courses should be redone
cute house, nice lines
View Image
Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 3/27/2009 10:04 pm ET by MikeSmith
Don't forget the new stimulus bill. You will get 10% back on your taxes for first time home buyer (up to $8,000).
You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
This whole home inspection thing has always seemed more like blackmail to me. I've bought and sold several houses in the last 10 years and have dealt with it on both sides. The seller in most states has to fill out a known defect form, so if you read that, have your own look around, and still decide to make an offer based on what you see and read, I just don't see where you have any room to demand price reductions based on an inspection done later. IMHO the time to demand any reductions is in the initial offer and contract. I realize there are unforeseen things that might be caught by an inspection, but if they are obvious and disclosed, you have no right to expect any relief after the contract is signed.
On the signed contract the seller indicated that all systems were in working condition, serving the purpose they are intended. You can take that any way you want. No problems were disclosed to me at signing.
"The seller in most states has to fill out a known defect form, so if you read that, have your own look around, and still decide to make an offer based on what you see and read,"There are any number of problems with that.First is for KNOWN problems. Now do you prove that the seller KNEW there there was a specific problem. And often when they are found the seller might be hard to find even if it was clear that they knew about the problem.And then you have cases like this one. It is not clear, but it looks like the sellers might have bought this house to flip. And might not have lived in the house at all or minimally. And many people that have been doing flips are not that knowledgeable about construction. And either unknowingly or on purpose ignored problem areas that they ran across.And many buyers might not be able to recognize all of the problem areas. Even someone that is knowledgeable in construction might not recognize some of the problems found such at the furnace..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
The current sellers have never lived in the place, they only bought it May 2008 from an estate sale.
The biggest hurdle right now is getting a somewhat accurate price for all the problems. I'm not sure how to justify them without having hard quotes from contractors...
I strongly agree with the whole "known problems" disclosure argument.Ten years ago, I sold a house that I had lived in for many years. Because of it's age, and my general knowledge, it was clear to me that the house had some asbestos in it.When I listed the house with a realtor, she got to the mandatory asbestos disclosure form, and I said "yes, this house has asbestos". She asked what licensed laboratory has verified the presence, I said none.She checked the "Do not know" box on the form, and we continued.
Politics is the antithesis of problem solving.
Yes, I plan to use this on my 2009 taxes. :)
Believe you can file an amended return and get it way before 2010 (i.e. now). Amended return is super super simple for this if you or your accountant used software.
You could also adjust down your withholding amount for the rest of 2009 with a new W4. If you go this route, be dadgum sure to give your employeer another new readjusted W4 at the beginning of 2010, or they'll keep withholding at the lower rate and you'll owe unc sam big time at the end of 2010.
Easy-reading version of this tax credit's guidelines (most importantly: calculating the credit amount and income limits) here: http://www.federalhousingtaxcredit.com/2009/home2.html
Anyone hazard a guess as to how much I should ask for in reduction for a new roof, fixing the foundation and framing, and the electrical. Obviously not using the best products, but using stuff that is safe and installed properly.
I've still got the reports if anyone *really* wants to look at them.
Don't know if you mentioned or not - is this is a short sale or foreclosure? Kind of matters as far as disclosures go, if you recieved a disclosure. Short sales/foreclosures have been deemed "as is" in my area and a home inspection is just to show how much work you're in for. Not that you can't offer a lower price...In other words, if I put an offer on an "as-is" house, contingent on a home inspection, then the outcome of the inspection would be - yes, I'll buy it or no I won't. Also keep in mind that bringing it up to par usually means repairs, not a brand new roof or plumbing/electrical system. Base your new offer on what repairs are needed to make the house livable and more importantly, safe.Nothing in the pictures looked like a total nightmare to me, just some tlc for the age of the house. Could have been maintained better, though...you never someone's situation.
This is not a short sale or foreclosure.
Yeah, all the repairs seem doable.
You did not see the improper shingle instllation?
How about the lack of joist hangers?
Not sure which post you're referring to - But I will say that just because the shingles were laid at a strange spacing doesn't mean the whole roof is gonna leak (Yeah, the ones near the valley need to be redone). The shingles don't look 35 years old, so maybe the owner reroofed and wanted them spaced this way. Ya never know these days. He can forget the warranty, though.Joist hangers? Cheap fix.When I look at the pics, I think about bringing the house "up to par", not making everything new. Also, it's diy.I didn't see many major items (except mold and new hvac), just some picky uny stuff. Hard to tell from the pics, though(and I didn't memorize them, I'll look again). I'd have to see it in person to determine if the whole house was botched, or if the last owner just did some silly stuff. I get the feeling it was the later.I think this guy's just looking to get out of rental, and he's gotta start somewhere.
Where do you see missing joist hangers?
Tu stultus esRebuilding my home in Cypress, CAAlso a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
new roof 6500
foundation work ,start with 5000. shouldn't go past 50,000
electrical,100 a hour x ? maybe another 3000
framing,lets just guess 3000
if you get the seller to pay for all this by coming down 20k,let me know i need a good negotiator sometimes :]
really i got to say if one down the road is 10k more ready to go,i'd buy it.i buy fixers,but this house for the price has some pretty serious things wrong.just a thought does it have copper wiring?that was the years for aluminum.
YOU ONLY NEED TWO TOOLS IN LIFE - WD-40 AND DUCT TAPE. IF IT DOESN'TMOVE AND SHOULD, USE THE WD-40. IF IT SHOULDN'T MOVE AND DOES, USE THEDUCT TAPE.
Edited 3/27/2009 3:58 pm by alwaysoverbudget
I just talked to an electrician and he gave me a price of $4500 for minimum, to-code re-wire.
I've been to the house probably 10 times since I first saw it, and I got a feeling that it's worth it, ONLY if the seller comes down in price.
The only drawback is I'm out:
$600 - Professional Enginer
$400 - Home inspector
$99.99 - HVAC inspection
$350 - septic inspection
$75 - chimney flue inspection
All total $1525 thus far. Given the results of the inspections this is money WELL spent.
i understand how your feeling,you want it,now you have 1500 invested and if you walk that is all lost.
buying real estate is what i do to put food on the table so i'm going to throw out some stuff you don't want to hear.mostly what i buy is estate houses.
when these people bought this for 75k 10 months ago i would venture a guess that it was on the open market or auction and they chose on that day to pay more than anyone else.not that it wasn't a good buy,but it was a house that had some serious defects in the foundation and misc stuff.
now what have they done to it since then? maybe they have spent 30k ,i don't know. but it sounds like maybe they have done a little cosmetic work and looking to turn a profit,not that theres anything wrong with that.
let me give you a quick lesson in how to stay out of trouble when buying your first house.
do not get emotional about it.there are more houses for sell. now thats easier to say than do,and i will admit that i have made a few emotional buys,but when the dust cleared i knew i had gave too much and the reason why.although some of those reasons were pretty shaky......................[i have one right now that i violated all the rules,and i have payed dearly for it]
always,and i mean always say to yourself " when i walk out of closing and i say to myself,i don't want this house and i want to sell it" can you get your money back that day,less all the sales fee's etc? if not you gave to much. in real estate [and a lot of other things]try to know what the worst thing that can happen and figure it will.
you are already looking at a possible 4500 for electric,plus a roof and the big thing that bothers me is this foundation being dug out and no support. if a previous owner hacked that up who knows what else he's had his hands on???? and you mention that this is 10k under the market,that's not enough.from all the info you have put on here i would be in the 85 range,thats me not knowing your market and just going on the fact that you say others are priced in the 135 range pretty much ready to go. now all the small stuff you mention means very little to me,because no house is perfect,not even a new one. thats why they have a "punch list"on new houses.
you've spent 1500,lay those facts out on the table of what it takes to fix them and i guarentee you the seller is going to go nuts,but just remind them,if you go down the road,the next buyer will have about the same list as you. sorry for the advice you didn't ask for.good luck,larry
oh,being out 1500 is lot better than having a 50k foundation bill from the concrete guy.
YOU ONLY NEED TWO TOOLS IN LIFE - WD-40 AND DUCT TAPE. IF IT DOESN'TMOVE AND SHOULD, USE THE WD-40. IF IT SHOULDN'T MOVE AND DOES, USE THEDUCT TAPE.
Edited 3/27/2009 5:38 pm by alwaysoverbudget
I might have made the foundation out to be worse than it actually is. I think there is the potential for the foundation to fail if there were heavy rain for an extended period of time, but the lot slopes well which I think has saved it from failing. I've attached the engineers report, it will make the picture a little clearer.
All the current owners have done to it is:
New flooring througout
Paint
New appliances
the owner said he had someone look at the electrical and fix as he saw fit, but I question his competency
re-plumb most fixtures
I serioulsy doubt the owners have put more than $10,000 in it.
I've told myself from the beginning not to get emotional, and I haven't, but I see lots of potential in this home, especially if I plan on staying in it at least 3 years to ride out the first time home buyer tax credit. I see this as a very good investment.
If I walk out of closing and have paid close to $100,000 I do not see any trouble selling it for that price AS-IS.
Don't apologize for the advice, I readily listen to it, and very much appreciate. Breaktime is awesome, I just hope I can give a little back throughout my journey to fixing this place up. The collective knowledge and wisdom here is priceless. I'm just trying to do things the "right way".
Am I correct in assuming you have already submitted a purchase offer that was contingent upon a home inspection?
Can you elaborate on "three tab shingles aren't installed properly"?
I think my main concern would be the foundation and making sure any problems there are corrected. A place that size would not be a problem to rewire, or replumb. I'd be worried about any improper wiring connections inside walls, etc. (areas that you cannot see).
Was it just DWV pipes that leaked, or was it supply pipes?
"Preach the Gospel at all times; if necessary, use words." - St. Francis of Assisi
Edited 3/27/2009 10:47 am ET by SteveInCleveland
Yes we have already signed a purchase contract that has a repair contingency of $5,000. I can walk away if any repairs are over $5,000 but I really want a fixer upper. I just want the price to be adjusted based on the repairs needed.
The exact words the inspector used were: "The 3 tab asphalt shingles were not installed on a 6 inch bond", I think this picture shows it well.
I think it was supply pipes, and the dwv up to the ABS. It looks to be all new. It's only has these supplies: bathroom tub, bathroom sink, bathroom toilet, kitchen, Washer, 1 hose bib.
The improper wiring is one of my main concerns. One plugged has reversed polarity, and 3 slots have 40 amp breakers with 10 gauge wiring.
Edited 3/27/2009 1:55 pm ET by JoshRountree
Edited 3/27/2009 1:56 pm ET by JoshRountree
Five grand?You'll have no problem walking away from this one. There are two individual problems that are very likely to be more than that, EACH.The house needs to be completely rewired -- from the service entrance, through a new panel, to every outlet and device. And with the walls not being open, that's big money.And the foundation has been undercut, including the removal of necessary piers.
Find your opportunity, and walk.
Politics is the antithesis of problem solving.
Sorry to hijack - Just curious if you got my reply to your email about Scott AFB.
Q: How do you confuse a blonde?
A: You don't — they're born that way.
As a home inspector, I don't make "buy it/don't buy it" recommendations, although I'd be tempted in your case.
Remember that a home inspector can't see inside walls, under insulation, etc.
S/he can only report on what is viewable.
Given what was sen, with wide ranging "amateurish workmanship" - consider the possibilities of what can't be seen....
"Ask not what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive... then go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
Howard Thurman
>>soil cuts should not be deeper than the horizontal measurement from the cut to the adjacent footings. two sections of wall violate this rule
Be aware that is just rule of thumb is is very dependent on the type of soil (and condition- e.g., dampness), which can vary widely within short ranges.
"Ask not what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive... then go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
Howard Thurman
Made it through some of the pics, dialupper here so I'm not going to look at all of them.
How capable are you of doing the work?
How cheap is it, IE under market?
How much land?
One of your ? ABS to PVC isn't a problem, there's a glue made for that.
Can you afford it, are you going to be in over your head if things don't go as planned?
Joe H
I would classify myself as very capable, and plan to do all the work myself (with the help of my girlfriend).
I live in the North Carolina Mountains, Boone to be exact. Property values up here hold better than other places. The people that own it now got it for $75,000 in an estate sale. If I had to guess I would say they bought it AS-IS. Tax value is $96,900. I started my offer at $95,000 and we ended up signing at $121,000. A comparable recently sold for $131,000 but I think it was in much better shape than this one.
About the ABS to PVC. This is a much debated topic that I've researched quite a bit. Most people quote the cement that is dual purpose, but the interpretation is that it can be used for either, but not to join disimilar materials. They say that PVC and ABS have different expansion and contraction rates, so the glue may hold for a while, but you should really use a fernco (I guess that's why the make them). Either way, it's an easy cheap fix. No big deal.
I've ran the numbers, I should be fine. In fact, I tried to buy the lot right beside it too, but that owner wanted way to much.
The lot beside the house has deeded access to the driveway and well. So if anyone ever builds, I'll be sharing...
So they bought it for $75,000, and want to flip it for $121,000? Without fixing it? In a down market?Then if really wanted the house, I would make my post-inspection repair contingency $15,000(diy) and hope that was enough (for the unseen things). Just throwing a number out there, hard to tell from the pics.Keep in mind if there's mold issues, the repair price could be $?.I wouldn't buy a house with mold issues - health is priceless.As a side note - it doesn't matter what houses in the area are priced at, it matters what houses in the area have sold for...
There is some mold in the roof decking (seen from the attic), and on the floor framing in the basement just in one spot by the furance, but I think it can be remedied by scraping/sanding/removing the mold, and then alleviating the moisture.
Any recommendations on must have tools. I'm starting a list I'm going to buy when we close:
Skil Mag SHD77M
Saw horses
Heavy duty drop cord w/ GFI
Cordless drill
Maybe this stuff as needed:
Air compressor
Air tools
Makita Sliding Compound Miter Saw
I've already got quite a bit of tools since I do all my own work on my cars. And, I'm going to buy a truck too when I move in. My Dad is going to let me borrow the money from him.
No argument about the mold issue. But i designed a home for a couple retiring to Boone, NC a number of years ago (beautiful site, but didn't get built). For land alone, $121,000 for an existing house might actually be a good investment. Even if it requires some work.
Lots of retirees relocating there. Course, many retirement plans have taken an ugly turn lately.
Yeah, mountain land is very expensive up here, but a lot depends on where you are. This house is actually in a subdivision, and by far the cheapest house there. In fact there are two new homes down the road a bit.
Thanks shtrum - it helps to know what land values are in the area before we go spoutin' off about house values.But I will say be careful about that - here's the summary about my area...In 2000, I bought 6 lots in my subdivision for $16,000 each. During the next 6 years I watched lot prices escalate to $250,000 each (and sell). This too was a retirement area (beach). Those lot prices are now around $50,000. Luckily, I rode the wave and built and sold houses on those lots and got rid of them before the price dropped too much.Now a lot of houses for sale are being foreclosed on here, because people who bought lots when it was cheap were able to get out of them without taking a hit, thus dropping the home values in the neighborhood. The house prices are pushed up by the land prices until folks realize that they're stuck - then they dump the lots. A lot of people didn't see it coming until it was too late.It may be worth it to check county records and see what the current land owners paid for their lots - might be a ticking time bomb.
Josh,
You haven't mentioned the critical bit of information needed to judge the quality of the investment in your home.. The critical most important bit needed to judge your new home is the old realitors saw. LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION!
Please believe me when I say that the house and the lot are trivial in relationship to the location..
Houses can be fixed, improved or even replaced.. lots can be improved or landscaped to increase value but if you wind up with the nicest house in a poor neighborhood you will Never, ever recover your investments..
It's like buying a used car because you like the worn out tires on it!
I think the location is good. It's by far the least expensive home in the nieghborhood. There's a couple log cabins, and at least one house being built. This house is on the left when you turn into the subdivion
well i have to say your getting me sold..........................i like the neighbors house.
reading that foundation report,seems like most problems could be fixed pretty easy.YOU ONLY NEED TWO TOOLS IN LIFE - WD-40 AND DUCT TAPE. IF IT DOESN'TMOVE AND SHOULD, USE THE WD-40. IF IT SHOULDN'T MOVE AND DOES, USE THEDUCT TAPE.
It's not my direct neighbor, but it is in the subdivision.
The lot beside me is listed for $39,900 and I offered $20,000 for it, but the owner only came down to $38,000. I didn't even counter after that. It's been dug out a little bit for foundation, has been perked, has a driveway cut (so they probably wouldn't use mine), and has deeded access to my well.
The lost across the road is listed for $35,000.
The house is on .7 acres, and so is the lot beside it.
Josh - Got anymore info on this pick? What are we looking at here - addition?11_Improper_soil_cut_x2.jpg
84KBI think I see where the old/off fall shingles went -
Edited 3/27/2009 10:20 pm ET by back2work
No, that is a step in the footing. The ground slopes outside that wall. Here's some more pictures of it.
I'm talking more about the framing above that - is that a 3/4" ply sill plate, or am I seeing things?Maybe it's a shelf.
Edited 3/27/2009 10:28 pm ET by back2work
haha, That's part of some old shelving and peg board down there. Apparently (this is from the seller's realtor), the owner before the people who own it now worked for some type of contractor or somehow ended up with a whole bunch of scrap building materials and stored them down there in the dug out basement. It was also like a workshop, there is coax cable ran everywhere, speaker wires, weird shop lights hung up, a drain pipe for a washer that drains somewhere, but not connected to the waste pipe.
Haha, I haven't even told ya'll about the outbuilding. It's pretty scary inside, very weird...
Speaker wires, weird shop lights, and a drain to "somewhere"?Did you notice kind of a sweet cigarette smell? What kind of bulbs are in the shop lights? Mold? Hmmm...This house may actually be an income producer! Just kidding with ya! Happy negotiating! :)
Going to meet with realtor at 11, I'll update you on the price we come to.
I'm really enjoying reading the thread, seeing as how I'm the seller!
No, just kidding.
Let us know how it went today.
Runnerguy
We decided to lower the offer $10,600 to $110,400. That would at least cover the big ticket items, with the idea of having someone else do the work. I hope to do most, if not all, the work myself, so that reduction might cover more than just the big items. I think I've got enough saved to take care of the structural recommendations, and repair the electrical. Then I can save up and take care of the HVAC when the time comes.
My oldest son went to App, lived around Vilas, I have friends with a place in West Jefferson, I'm familiar with the area... and the beer selection at Lowe's<G>So, looks like you're buying to flip, right? That looks like a lot of the quasi chalet stuff up there. Can you show pics of what's in the rest of the subdivision?... and does that place have have any view?http://www.tvwsolar.com
I went down to the lobby
To make a small call out.
A pretty dancing girl was there,
And she began to shout,
"Go on back to see the gypsy.
He can move you from the rear,
Drive you from your fear,
Bring you through the mirror.
He did it in Las Vegas,
And he can do it here."
I'm not necessarily looking to flip. Sure, I don't plan on being in it forever, but I don't see myself moving within 3 years, especially if I plan to use the first time homebuyer tax credit (must stay in the place for 3 years). This houe fits my situation well and I can get it based on my salary.
The subdivision is a hodge podge of houses. The house down below me is a white modular, there is another modular around the corner, lots of small cabins, some larger newer log cabins, a couple traditional homes, and this is a house on the left as you drive into the subdivision. It's a much older subdivision, established in 1972, it's got lots of character :)
And, Lowe's has excellent beer selection, as well as Harris Teeter now. The grocery stores up here have really spoiled me.
Are there any views from that neighborhood? If not, I'd lowball, and wait... the sharing drive and well also sounds a little sketchy... but how close are you to Lowe's?<G>http://www.tvwsolar.com
I went down to the lobby
To make a small call out.
A pretty dancing girl was there,
And she began to shout,
"Go on back to see the gypsy.
He can move you from the rear,
Drive you from your fear,
Bring you through the mirror.
He did it in Las Vegas,
And he can do it here."
Some views, I'd need to cut some trees back. The house is oriented east/west so the whole back deck has really good southern exposure.
There's 2 lowes close by, both 15 minutes away. There's also a whole bunch of really nice building supply stores. I'll have no trouble getting any building material I'd want.
Forgot to add, there is not sil plate that I can see. Just 2x8s directly on the concrete block.
I don't know anything about your foundation issues. I do know about DIY home rebuilding!
The inspectors report on my house was 6 pages long - in 8pt. type!
Figure out what needs to be done so you can EASILY begin work. Fixing that girder and foundation sound like top priorities. I'll be the same outfit could do both. Ask the realtor who he'd hire to do it.
Furnace, don't even bother running it, unless it's already pretty warm - just get it replaced with something new. TIP: When shopping for HVAC installer, ask to see a previous residential installation. That saved me from going with a company that did shoddy work. In HVAC, installation is everything.
Be prepared to fully redo the electrical. Really, it's not that hard.
Worry about the roof later, worry about the bath later. Neither will likely kill you over the next 5 years - even if both leaked a little.
Kitchen - I hate dark in the kitchen. Paint those cheap plywood cabinets!
Mold problems are moisture problems. Where do the bath vents go? Where does the attic vent? How is the ventalation in the crawl space? Looks like you need a vapor retarder down there anyway.
Plumbing is like electrical - not that hard.
Drywall is hard - your first couple walls will look like crud.
For cordless tools, I've had great success with Ryobi - cheap and gets most of the jobs done.
Tu stultus esRebuilding my home in Cypress, CAAlso a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
I find drywall easy, well except for the weight of it. My dad was an electrician, and I worked for an electrical contractor for a while, so that too is fairly easy for the house shown.PLUMBING IS HARD!
Fixing that girder and foundation sound like top priorities.
The girder is supported, just not at the splices. And I agree, foundation and electrical are the first on my list.
Furnace, don't even bother running it, unless it's already pretty warm...
I plan on removing the furnace and oil tank first thing before I start foundation work.
Paint those cheap plywood cabinets!
haha, that was one of the selling points on the MLS listing. They're wormy chesnut, so is the mantle. They're not my first choice, but they're ok for now.
Ok, what are the overall economic conditions like? Are there plenty of decent jobs in the area, is the local economy growing or shrinking? What are the local average wages?
Are the majority of the homes in the area owned by those living in them or by renters?
How far do you have to drive etc. to get to rough areas? How far to railroad tracks, freeways, and urban blight areas?
Local schools? I've never heard a realitor tell anyone that the school system sucks but obviously some do.. fire stations too close so every night you are woke up by alarms? police station? How far to the nearest hospitals etc..
All those questions need an answer because the next buyer will want answers and the wrong ones can hurt your resale more than bad carpet or the wrong kitchen etc..
You need at this point to think at least one move ahead.
The economic conditions are about as good as you could expect right now. Not many professional jobs up here, a lot of service jobs though. Let me give a little more background on where the house is located. It's in the North Carolina mountains, 15 minutes from Boone, NC and about 25 minutes from Blowing Rock, NC. There's sking in between Boone and Blowing Rock, and 2 other ski mountains about 35-45 minutes away. Also in Boone is Appalachian State University, which has been growing steadily the past few years. The football team has won 3 consecutive championships the previous 3 years. They also beat Michigan. Everyone mis-pronounces Appalachian.
There's very good access to Charlotte (1.5 hours away), with two ways to get there. One was is 4 lanes the whole way, the other way will be some time in the future. Local schools are decent.
I can be at the Blue Ridge parkway in less than 15 minutes from house, and on the main road in less than 5. Two hospitals are close by, both 15 minutes away. The house is located in the middle between Boone, NC and West Jefferson, NC.
Homes in this area are divided among people that live here, people that have 2nd homes here, and rentals for the college etc.
Most of the homes in the neighborhood where the house is are full time residents or 2nd home owners. Lots of people from Florida have 2nd homes here.
Design/builder who used to post here specialized in concrete domes (tag was CloudHidden). His own house was in Asheville, NC, until he sold it in 2007. It had been featured in some magazines and unique home shows on television (you might recognize it).
http://www.cloudhidden.org/