Friends of ours from NYC were up this weekend to hang out and kick back. He and his partner do specialized concrete contracting in the megalopolis . . . 15 and more jobs going on at a time, from like Summit, NJ all the way up to Fairfield, CT, 175 to 275 union guys on the payroll.
I showed him some completed work and some things in the can, and we discussed what I am paying for stuff, versus what he can do if he is doing something residential.
If I sub framing, I pay $10/sf, he pays $5. Poured concrete foundations run between $150 and $280 per yard up here, depending on complexity. He gets it done for $125 no matter how many corners, etc.
Sheetrock? This one is hard for me to believe, but my bud’s an honest guy. I pay labor, hang, tape, and prime, 80 cents /sf, he pays 25 cents, but that doesn’t include the prime job (which takes all of about 2 hours).
Fully trim out a 6000 sf high end custom? Forget the dollars here, lets talk timing. How about 15 guys speak Polish only, no English, one boss speaks both, all 16 show up at 7 am on Monday, and they wrap it up Thursday afternoon.
Replies
first off ... money and quality ain't the same ...
second ... .25 hang/tape/finish ...
who's family they holding hostage?
unless the materials are stolen the the labor is third world.
doing the math ... even at rock bottom pricing ... the labor would be lower than the materials cost .... with a materials as cheap, relatively speaking, as drywall?
Union?
I'm not buying it .... I must be missing something here.
could even be 100% wrong and I'm missing the boat!
Jeff
Somebody's smokin' boat.
The rock and mud work is just labor.
Bob-
Working union in Northern NJ myself, I can tell you that your friend isn't working "union" with a bunch of Poles doing concrete work for $125/CY. Concrete alone is running $78/CY here, and even if the number is just for labor, it's still way off. Union concrete work runs from around $285/CY for basic, straightforward walls and footings, to around $475/CY for the post-tensioned parking deck I just completed.
Give me your friend's card if he's legit- I'd love to have him bid some work. No offense, but somehow I don't the numbers would work out like he told you once we card all of his "union" workers.....
Bob
I am certain the res work was done non union.
Hey Bob,
Nice post. I don't know how friendly you are with these guys, so no offence intended.
I believe about half of what they are telling you, in other words double the #'s they are quoting. C'mon; I'm paying .20 a sq ft just for a sheet of rock. Ok volume......someone must be paying them to take the rock.
I have two thoughts here......I know a guy, contractor, real estate investor guy.........exagerates everything he tells you about. If he paid 1.50 for it he'll tell you he got it for 1.00, unless it's something he wants to sell to you, then he paid 2.00 for it and of course he's gotta make money on it.
Or they have no idea of what costs they are paying for anything and are just throwing #'s around. They're blowin smoke up yer azz for sure.
Besides, it's all regional. I'm sure you know better than to expect these prices where you are. And........they better be getting good prices on somethings in order to pay that Union help. BTW, what type of labor prices did these Aces quote you........that is, if they did.
Eric
I Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
Bob,
The Framing I can believe. I've seen guys as low as $3.75 SQFT. Not sure why anyone would bother for that price. I've also seen tons of the trim crews you are talking about.
A once watched a Framer I worked for tell a potential customer " You can have Fast, Cheap and Good. Pick any two." And I have found he was right.
Fully trim out a 6000 sf high end custom? Forget the dollars here, lets talk timing. How about 15 guys speak Polish only, no English, one boss speaks both, all 16 show up at 7 am on Monday, and they wrap it up Thursday afternoon.
You have to define " High End Custom". I've been in two in the last six months. One had 8'0" hand made doors and roller bearing hinges, True raised panels on everywall on the first floor and a three piece crown throughout. The other had hollow cores, One piece crown and wire shelves. Big difference. Both by the way were in the Princton NJ area.
Even though I am longer actively employed in the trades, I can work any weekend or day off I have " Fixing" the work of Crews like your friends trim crew. Got a call about next Saturday just this afternoon.
His Drywall number is Labor only or a fanatsy. Not sure which one.
Don't know much about concrete. My father does however use a guy in NJ who gives him a fantastic price. The guy also pours millions of yards a month.
HAve worked in and around the Summit NJ as well as Far Hills, Morristown areas for years. And I think maybe you guys aren't comparing apples to apples.
As I said, the rock and tape figure was given to me as "labor only."
Sorry Bob, Missed that,
Where are you from by the way?
Lake Placid, NY.
And speaking of buying power, here is some local news. The only thing of any size to go up here in years is a new 4-star vacation timeshare. The Whiteface Lodge. Check out the website at http://www.thewhitefacelodge.com Sold in 1/6 shares, each of the 75 units (when you multiply the share price by 6) goes for between $240K to $1.2 million.
The developer is a New Jersey guy, and known for his disdain of the local labor market.
Guess who is hanging and taping? A van load of smallish, well-tanned, guys, all with black hair, who speak Spanish. One big van between them all, probably staying in one room out past the Econolodge. Maybe even Mr. Big put them up out at his ranch. He has a few bunkhouses, and has been known to do that for imported labor.
Word on the street is that the rock and mud are going up for cheap, cheap, cheap. This from guys who get 45 cents to hang and their buds that get 22 to tape.
But I have been in there, and the work looks very good. Extremely good.
Friend of mine in town, went down to northern Jersey this summer to do a big remodel at the primary residence for a guy who has a summer place here. Took himself and his tools, no help. Said he picked up all the excellent help he needed out near the mini mart each morning, where the day laborers congregate. Pay rates were way down there. Low. Really low.
So, it is likely my NYC friend, who is a very savvy and observant guy, knows all about these labor markets, and when he says he can get rock and tape done on his partners private residence for 25 cents, I'll bet he is speaking the truth, and it is Spanish drywall he is talking about.
Edited 10/12/2004 2:17 pm ET by Bob Dylan