We ran out of drywall screws, so we are going to use these for hanging:
Cabs are frameless, interiors are maple finish melamine faced particleboard.
This is from McFeely’s and has an “almond” painted head. 3″ length.View Image
For joining carcases, we might use this, also from McFeely’s, except that the only finish available is zinc. Boxes will mate up out at the front face with these, and with 1-1/4″ squaredrive screws at the backs, behind where they cannot be seen. Any other solutions?
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Replies
Did you really use drywall screws in the past? I haven't hung many cabinets, but I wouldn't think that a drywall screw would have the shear strength to hold a fully loaded kitchen cabinet... Maybe a Home Ripoff stock particle-board cabinet, but not a solid hardwood plywood unit.
I like the almond-colored screws you found. Nice wide shoulders to support the load; would definitely use before dwall screws.
Obviously you have not been here very long. Drywall screws are more commonly known as Piffin screws when used for hanging cabinets. Usually only two screws are needed, even for the largest cabinets. And some people have perfected the technique of using Piffin screws for building decks. They work great with joist hangers. Be sure to use the screws with the fine threads.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
You're right, Fast Eddie - I haven't been here very long. If I understand you correctly, two fine-thread drywall screws (#6x2"? 2-1/2"?) are all that you use to hang cabinets? What about steel studs?Is "Piffin" a brand name, or just a nickname given to drywall screws when they're used to hang cabinets?I could see using deck screws to hang cabinets, but using drywall screws for cabinets or decking just seems like an invitation for trouble. For one thing, on a twisted deck board, you could pop the head off the drywall screw before you ever got the board snugged down to the joist...Are drywall/Piffin screws approved by code for use in framing decks, or is it a "don't tell and hope they don't ask" kind of policy????Your thoughts?
I like using piffen screws for trim, especally base board. Run a piffen screw under the trim to adjust for the lack of drywall. 2+3=7
http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=52247.23
thanks, ken...
I wuz pullin' yer laig. Drywall screws are only good for drywall, and light duty stuff. We call them Piffin screws after the great master Piffin, professor emeritus of Breaktime. He once gave a robust lecture on their proper use.
And no, they don't work for decks either, contrary to what the kids at the big boxes will say.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
whew - you had me worried for a bit... :-0 I couldn't imagine that you were serious, but I couldn't quite tell.thanks
A while back someone claimed a carpenter was sistering his neighbor's joists with...yep, DW screws.The scary thing is....that carpenter probably votes. And drives a car.
Woodcraft has the screws in white,zinc and I think another finish I can't recall.
mike
The first one they sell at HD or Lowes... The 2nd one seems like a good idea but maybe a bit of overkill.
At 35 cents per mile cost of operation, a roundtrip to the Lowe's is about a $40 cost to me. For a Depot, I gotta cross the lake on a ferry, and that means the trip carries a cost of closer to $70.
The hardware stores and lumberyards with hardware shelves have nothing like this stuff for cab installation. Mail order makes a whole lotta sense to me.
Do you have access to Hafele stuff? They have all sorts of great cabinet hardware including so many good screws that you'd start drooling. Strongly suggest you get a catalog (it's a 1300 page hardbound book) and an account if you don't have one already.
Their item # 015.80.116 is a square drive #10 x 3-1/2 screw. Item 015.80.133 is a #14 x 2-1/2. When I did cabinet installs all the time I went thru gallons of them.
They have the sleeved fasteners for joining boxes to each other. Do you guys call those 'sex bolts' out there, or is that just west coast?
EDIT: just read the 'maple melamine' part. Hafele has several dozen different woodgrain screw caps. You can satisfy the most difficult designer with them, mostly because they won't even see them.
Edited 11/27/2005 4:08 pm by davidmeiland
We've no access to Hafele stuff, other than what is sold by others through websites and catalogs.
The sex bolts I just ordered from McFeely's are Hafele, I'm sure. I am biting the bullet and using zinc finish ones, most of which I'll try to hide behind hinge plates. (Why would you think sexbolt is a west coast term? ;-))
Some might call them overkill, but I guess they are the ones using a 1-1/4" drywall screw to join two 3/4" carcase sides. The drywall screw users are probably the same folks that use Advantech subfloor and do 4-stud corners. Go figure.
I think if you go to the Hafele website and order a catalog using your business name, they'll send you one. Open an account and have stuffed shipped UPS. I have not done business with McFeely's, and maybe they have everything you need. When I lived in CA, Hafele had a big presence and a rep who came to my shop a few times in a giant Winnebago outfitted with all sorts of trick hardware displays. I'm hooked...
>>Do you have access to Hafele stuff? They have all sorts of great cabinet hardware including so many good screws that you'd start drooling. Got one last year. They have a showroom close to me, excellent product line. They have regular demo's and seminars too. It is definately the Rolls Royce (or rather Porsche) of hardware, cost wise too.
You guys ever use Spax screws? They may be a little pricey, but they work great.
The correct technical term for drywall screws is "piffin screws" anyway, I use the mcfeeleys screw and they work great. I used to use lag bolts but I like the way the mcfeeleys give a more finish look to the project.
I'd have to say, I think you have the right idea trying to "hide behind hinge plates." It looks like your on the right track with McFeely's as well. I do, however agree with torn on drywall screws.
Apparently I'm not the only one. Here's Mike Guertin's words from Installing Kitchen Cabinets: Smooth and Solo:
"Many cabinet companies now supply mounting screws, but years ago we were left to our own devices. Like many installers, I made the mistake of hanging cabinets with drywall screws, which simply aren't strong enough to support loaded cabinets. These days, I use only special cabinet-mounting screws, preferably those with broad washer heads for full shoulder support (http://www.mcfeelys.com). To join styles, I use trim-head screws. The smaller heads can be hidden easily by hinges, plugs, or wood putty."-FHB 174 p. 45 box "Don't use drywall screws."
Clicking on my signature will take you to the Round Washer Head Screw section.
-T
Edited 11/27/2005 8:10 pm ET by JourneymanCarpenterT
I thought I'd check out the advent of the drywall / "Piffin screw." Turns out the screws he recommends instead are GRK Fasteners. Iv'e never used them yet myself, but I must say, what I read looks pretty good.
-T
$8 for a lb. of screws???? Plus you have to buy the driver bits. Use nails.
One of our local yards has GRK's - Torx drive heads, very strong, variety of head styles available, pricey ( but so what? how many are you going to use hanging a kitcken).
When they first started with this product they gave small boxes away as samples - the old "first one is free" trick - now we're hooked.
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.