Hey there, looking for information on the common going rates for cabinet installers (not cabinet makers), and also the rates for trim installers. If you have any info on the Pacific Northwest area (rates) that would be really helpful but not necessary
Thanx
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Replies
R U a trim installer or a homeowner?
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
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I have an opportunity to expand my business with a very large renovation/ remodel company as a sub installing cabinets and trim. They usually do 4-500 unit aprtments, and I need to get a handle on the price range (s) installers are charging
I work for several different manufacturers, small custom shops to national suppliers. The big guys like to charge per unit/cabinet. This give them cost certainty, they tell you how much they will pay and you have to decide what is extra.
The manufacturer should supply everything, screws glue caulk etc. You become a labour only supplier.
Three units per hour, three to four hundred dollars per day. Start on the top floor and work your way down. Not as far to move your tools at the end of the day.
Where about are you in the PNW?
Darren.
Not a clue as to your question, but there is a current thread about something similar.
The opportunity to spend the rest of the decade rehabbing bathrooms in a 500 unit complex.
There might be something useful for you there.
If I could think of the title, I'd tell you.......
Joe H
Hi Ranger,
We have Cabinets & Quartz Factory in Vietnam which is ANTIDUMPING FREE!!
We have a wealth of experience in multi-family projects.
We provide countertops & cabinets for 3,000 units annually from coast to coast.
We welcome the opportunity to bid on your project, big or small.
Tracy Huang | North America Sales Director
Chinese Countertops Limited
177 Daxue Rd, Siming District
Xiamen City, Fujian Province, China, 361005
Tel.: +86 15860737100
Email: [email protected]
http://www.chinesecountertops.com
I charge a million a house for each. I have a five day time limit. If it takes more then that then I charge by the hour.
Riverfest 2005. Be there, or be square.
http://www.hay98.com/
How's your schedule looking Gunner? LOL
As they say...Price is high but you only have to sell one!
I'm covered up! Probably can't get to you for awhile.
Riverfest 2005. Be there, or be square.
http://www.hay98.com/
Expect to pay about half the price of the cabinets for the installation. Anywhere from $45 to $75 per cabinet. It depends on the quality and care you want.
I charge $45/box
I consider anything and everything a "box" ...
filler strip ... box.
length of crown ... box.
false door ... box.
I get lots "interviews" ... all sounds great ... few calls back.
100% price related. Get lotsa calls back to see if I'll cut my price in half.
Have a buddy I lend a hand to ... he charges roughly $25/box.
He works "most steady" ....
I use the cab installs to fill my time remodeling.
He works 100% as a cab installer .. so he needs the steady can work.
And at $25/hr ... he still get's undercut, pricewise ... alot.
Unless it's a top of the line, very high end, custom layout inhouse cabinet design distributor ...
They want to pick a low ball price ... under $20 cab/hour ... and they just use up young guys just starting out and hungry for work.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Cabinet installs I am familiar with are billed out to the customer at $80.00/cabinet (including install, adj., knobs and pulls & toekick). The installer is paid $45/cabinet. I charge $15 per piece for crown. I agree that each cabinet should be figured at about an hour. I average 7 cabinets a day/ person.I've been doing about 2 kitchens/week and have been basically transmorgified from a trim and remodel guy into a cabinet installer. My experience has been that since people pay big bucks for cabinets, they are more willing to pay top dollar to have the job done right. edit to add: My ballpark (install = 1/2 cabinet price) is something I picked up from Comsumer Reports when they did a feature on kitchen cabinets last year. I just checked the 2005 Means info and they agree with what your cabinet installer gets ($20 to $30/cabinet). I consider those prices to be for average, production work. I try to charge more and like you, I strive to do high quality work.
Edited 6/27/2005 8:53 am ET by basswood
basswood - "
I agree that each cabinet should be figured at about an hour. I average 7 cabinets a day/ person."
We use differnet figures for uppers, lowers, corner cabinets, ceiling hung cabinets, and even then we consider the size of the cabinet. An hour a cabinet though seems high to me unless you are possibly using that hour to also account for other tasks such as bringing the cabinets into the space (or some other task for that matter). I'm thinking a typical cabinet takes anywhere from 20 to 40 minutes with larger cumbersome ones possibly taking an hour.
"My experience has been that since people pay big bucks for cabinets, they are more willing to pay top dollar to have the job done right."
That's been our experience and what we've found too.
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Jerrald,I typically install about 14 cabinets in 8 hours solo or about 20 cabinets in a day with a helper (including bringing 'em in). Then it usually takes me another day to run crown, light rail, toekick, install knobs and pulls, and adjust doors and drawers. Those details just about knock the average down to 7 cabs/day for me.I should add that, on my jobs, the face frames are screwed to the adjacent cabinet with 3 trim-head screws (not big deck screws), joints and miters tight and flush (like they shoud be--nothing real special there), accurate scribing instead of caulking or scribe molding, etc. My productivity is lower than average but the quality and pay seem to be higher. Average productivity according to your good friend RS Means is 10 cabs/carp/day.I am paid 12% more for wall cabinets, than bases, and 20% more for tall pantry cabinets (as you indicated).
basswood - "
I am paid 12% more for wall cabinets, than bases, and 20% more for tall pantry cabinets (as you indicated)."
Interesting,... we're vice versa in that typically we figure more for base cabinets than wall cabinets. There isn't much a difference but I do think I remember it being typically more for bases than wall cabinets. Since I'm back working office duty again tomorrow I'll look up and see what the percentage difference is.
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I actually agree with you that there is little difference between wall and base cabinet installation. With my method of installation the wall cabinets are usually easier to put in. I don't complain about the price stucture (there are usually more wall cabinets than bases so I'm glad they pay better here). I'm puzzled that I don't get paid more for sink bases. I install bases first for two reasons. On big jobs the counter top crew (that waits to measure for tops until base cabs are in) can measure a day earlier. Additionally, bases first gives me a place to put a jig I build out of 1x8 (42"x19-1/4" x7-1/4") so I can just set the wall cabinets on the jig and shim into position and screw into place. It works so well for me that I use the technique even when working with a helper.Did you buy my Consumer Reports explanation?
Edited 6/27/2005 10:12 pm ET by basswood
I figure about a unit per hour too.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
JEFF J. BUCK - " I charge $45/box
I consider anything and everything a "box" ...
filler strip ... box.
length of crown ... box.
false door ... box."
Now what you're doing and saying is starts to make sense to me. A filler often takes the same effort if not more to install than a cabinet box. Quoting Bob Kovacs quoting something he picked up from the Richardson Engineering Services book "Process Plant Cost Estimating Standards."
Way too many contractors consider just the box when the figure a job and get burned when they find out they didn't account for things like a three piece crown molding or scribes that go into a stone or brick wall!
But what I don't like is you don't say where that $45/box figure comes from or how it was derived. Does the $45/box represent .529 labor hours (32 minutes @ $85 per hour) worth of work? Or was the figure just arbitrarily derived?
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$45/box.
each piece/part/box/stick/skin "averages" to take about an hour when it's all said and done ...
and $45 is my hourly rate ...
hence ... the $45/box.
short hand for ... $45/hr.
I also usually have to add in 2 guys for one day for delivery. 2 guys for a day for appliances ... me for an "extra day" for knobs/nail holes/door and drawer adjustments and clean out. If the builder/GC doesn't have an on site dumpster or a corner in the basement I can pile everything up into I add another full day. The demo haul doesn't take a full day ... but I'm outta bed already ... and I cover the dump fee.
If the appliances are set by "other" ... and theres a double sub zero ... there's also an extra "day" charge ... as I know I'm still gonna have to fight with it to get it perfect.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Lets see:
Annula salary = $45,000.00/2080hrs. = $21.63
Benifits and Taxes per hour = 80% = $17.30
overhead per hour = $18.00
Profit per hour = $5.00
Total per hour invoice rate = $61.93 VS: $45.00 (What is wrong with this picture?)
Working for nothing is not getting any cheaper.
Edited 7/26/2005 11:16 pm ET by TomMaynard
Edited 7/26/2005 11:49 pm ET by TomMaynard
How do you figure $17.30 for benefits and taxes?
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Jon,
Somthing like this.
Straight time hours a year = (2080) – vacation holidays personal & sick leave = 280 hours. = 1800 hours = divisor of cost<!----><!---->
<!---->
NOTE: Other indirect hrs. Will be calculated as over head. Warranty service – Sales – Bids – education - tool purchase/ Repairs - Office management administrative $ Other<!---->
<!----> <!---->
<!----> <!---->
1) Vacation –holidays - personal leave etc. = 280 hrs. X 21.63= $6,056.40<!---->
$6056.40 / 1800 hrs = $3.36<!---->
<!----> <!---->
<!----> <!---->
<!----> <!---->
2) Retirement - Health plan – Dental- Prescriptions –<!---->
Disability insurance – loss of work comp Unemployment reserves <!---->
= $ 12,500.00 (+ -) / 1800 hrs. = $ 6.94 <!---->
<!----> <!---->
Even if your wife provides some of these through her employer do not give the value of these away.<!---->
<!----> <!---->
<!----> <!---->
3) Taxes = $12,600.00? (+ -) / 1800 HRS. = $7.00<!---->
<!----> <!---->
Sum lines (1-3) = $ 17.30 <!---->
<!----> <!---->
Working for nothing is not getting any cheaper.
Edited 7/27/2005 6:20 pm ET by TomMaynard
"1) Vacation –holidays - personal leave etc. = 280 hrs. X 21.63= $6,056.40; $6056.40 / 1800 hrs = $3.36"Since you already paid yourself for 2,080 hours, isn't this redundant?"3) Taxes = $12,600.00? (+ -) / 1800 HRS. = $7.00"Our tax (the employers portion) runs from 10-13%. You're showing 28%. What other tax is included in this figure?
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Jon.
Sorry,
That post was geared towards a self employed Carpentry sub contractor.
My Journeyman carpentry cost would go like attached.
I have truck and tool allowances as a overhead expense.
Some may consider this to be a direct expense. In that case my carpenter would cost just short of $44.00 per hour with out overhead and profit
<!----><!----> <!---->
Payroll labor expense item (2005)<!---->
Hourly <!---->
1<!---->
Base pay = <!---->
$21.00<!---->
<!----> <!---->
2<!---->
Pre paid time off = (11%) - (16%) <!---->
This individual = (16%) =<!---->
<!----> <!---->
$ 3.36 <!---->
<!----> <!---->
3<!---->
Pre paid heath/dental ins. contribution =<!---->
($3.00) – ($4.50) = This individual =<!---->
<!----> <!---->
$ 4.50 <!---->
<!----> <!---->
4<!---->
Pre paid retirement contribution =<!---->
($.60) – ($1.00) = This individual =<!---->
<!----> <!---->
$ 1.00 <!---->
<!----> <!---->
5<!---->
Total hourly compensation =<!---->
Sum lines (1-4) =<!---->
<!----> <!---->
$29.86<!---->
<!----> <!---->
<!----> <!---->
6<!---->
Employer’s contribution To: Payroll Burden Lia. Ins. = (30%) of Line 5 <!---->
<!----> <!---->
$ 8.95<!---->
<!----> <!---->
7<!---->
Total Direct Labor Cost =<!---->
sum lines (1-6)=<!---->
<!----> <!---->
$39.41<!---->
<!----> <!---->
8<!---->
Overhead Recovery On Payroll Labor Add : <!---->
<!----> <!---->
$ <!---->
9<!---->
Profit Margin Add:<!---->
$<!---->
· Employee Tool Allowance = ($.35) -($2.00<!---->
· This individual’s Tool allowance = $2.00<!---->
· Employee truck use allowance = Max ($2.35)<!---->
· This individual’s Truck allowance = ($2.35<!---->
NOTE: Allowances paid on Straight time hrs.Only <!---->
Allowance funded from (line 8) overhead
<!----> <!---->
<!---->I can see why you thought my employer paid taxes may have seemed high as in my earlier post.
In this case one would have to multiply the line no. 1 (base labor) of $21.00 an hour by .848 to arrive at the cost of taxes (burden) & benefits (lines 2-3-4 & 6)
Let me try $21.00 X .848 = taxes & benefits ($17.81) Yep it worked. <!---->
<!----><!---->
<!---->Once again sorry!<!---->
<!----><!---->
<!---->Tom<!---->
Working for nothing is not getting any cheaper.
Edited 7/28/2005 8:40 am ET by TomMaynard
"Working for nothing is not getting any cheaper"
ROFLMFAO
basswood - "Expect to pay about half the price of the cabinets for the installation."
Whaaa? Naw don't say that. That based on bad old construction mythology. When I first started out as a carpenter 29 years ago after work in the bars during happy hours I used to talk with guys who would say things like charge 2 times materials or charge X times materials and it was all just BS and nothing was grounded in any kind of logical pricing logic. Luckily I didn't listen since that didn't seem to make any sense (and luckily I also quite drinking too).
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In those days you had to use a slide rule or slateboard to figure prices. Its a lot easier to do today with spreadsheets and those calculators.
Jerrald,On the subject of installation costing about 1/2 the price of the cabinets:That was an average arrived at by Consumer Reports last year. I thought it interesting as cheap cabinets can take longer to install than high end cabinets. The cheap stuff is easier to rack out of square, is more likely to have crooked face frames, require more adjustments, etc. What it told me is that the more people pay for cabinets the more they are willing to pay for installation. It doesn't mean they take longer to install, just that you can make more per hour. The more expensive the cabinets do require that you are more skilled (face frames scribed to fit the wall instead of caulked in, toekick scribed to fit the floor instead of 1/4 round, etc), since the customer expects a high quality installation.
i install kitchen cabinets too and my rate is 26 per box(cabinet)(30 unassembled), that rate includes handles, simple fillers and toekick period
a peninsula or an island has a 100 upcharge plus the regular rate per box
crown, light rail, light valance, island back panels etc etc are all priced per 8' length(around 45 per)
countertops are extra, as are appliance, sink, etc etc installation
caulking is not a piece of trim
Steve - I'm curious. Why the big "upcharge" for an island?
Why the big "upcharge" for an island?
My guess; lottsa finished panels, toe kick all around, brackets for countertop overhang, doors and drawers on both sides..............whadi ferget??
$100.00 a "big" upcharge?? Where you guys from?
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
Eric Paulson "
$100.00 a "big" upcharge?? Where you guys from?" Yeah I laughed at that one too. That's why I think all these discussions of actual dollars are a waste of time. A hundred here is nothing but in some parts of the country I guess that's big bucks.
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Eric: The man said he charges $26 per cabinet, but $100 upcharge + the $26, if I read right, for the island. That's 400% more for a cabinet. In percentages, that's a big upcharge. I don't see an island or peninsula as being 4x or 5x the work of another cabinet. Since an island at least doesn't have to be attached to adjacent cabinets, I think it's easier. I wanted to know what the basis of his figuring was, maybe learn something or see something I was missing. (He said the $26 only includes the basics, so I didn't see it as including the brackets you mention or anything else fancy.)
Hammerlaw - "Eric: The man said he charges $26 per cabinet, but $100 upcharge + the $26, if I read right, for the island. That's 400% more for a cabinet."
No it not. It's probably only around 100% more. There are often 4 or more cabinets in an island or peninsula. And they aren't necessarily any simpler to install than a lower wall cabinet. They still need to be firmly secured but the fastening goes down rather than into the back wall. Still I don't understand what Steve's upcharge pricing basis is so I do hope he comes back to expand or explain what he was talking about too.
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$100.00 per island or penninsula.............whatever.
I know what he's talking about and I understand. Even think he's not "upping" enough!
I'm tired of working for free.
Be makin money!
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
islands have a big upcharge for several reasons
first of all is the seemingly simple job of fastening to the floor especially over porcelin tile
secondly, any island i build is scribed to the floor within a 1/16 in all around
then cutting and fitting backpanels, false doors, base molding, bar brackets etc etc
see the island in the photo gallery and see what i mean, due to an old outside wall, that island was scribed almost an inch near the middle and the base molding is 3/4 solid maple, there are no shims under the island.caulking is not a piece of trim
first of all is the seemingly simple job of fastening to the floor especially over porcelin tile
Happened to me once. After much consternation and cursing, burning up several carbide bits............ho offers to go to the hw store to get me a (some) new bits.
Soon as he was down the road I smacked a couple of tile out, glued and screwed a 2x4 down and quickly set the island.
He returned no wiser to my deed and happy as a pig in ...............
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
been there done that too!!caulking is not a piece of trim
Uh oh, you guys are gonna be in trouble with the floor- under- the -cabinets-whatever-the-cost people. ;)
Don't you know that the homeowner might actually want to get rid of that island someday? Now what are they gonna do about that hole in the flooring?
Hmmm?The heck, you say?
"Don't you know that the homeowner might actually want to get rid of that island someday? Now what are they gonna do about that hole in the flooring?"
The same thing they'd do to replace the tiles with the holes through them for the screws that would hold the cabinets down anyway, or the tiles with the PL-200 all over them from gluing blocks down to secure the cabinets to.
Bob
You wouldn't have to mess up the finish floor if you used an inverted skyhook.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Tongue in cheek, Bob.
I was poking the ribs of the folks who insist on putting expensive flooring under all the cabinets.The heck, you say?
In the landlocked commonwealth of PA, it depends. For a one and done, new construction install, around $500-$600 per kitchen. Assuming I can do it in a day. If it includes any vanities, or laundry areas, which would require a second day $800-$900. I usually have to supply 3-4 2x4's for blocking, and any fasteners needed.
New construction trim also depends. Anywhere from $1.50/sf-$5.00/sf.
"New construction trim also depends. Anywhere from $1.50/sf-$5.00/sf."You probably meant $1.50-$5.00/l.f. not s.f.
Square foot. I only trim for one custom builder, so I have the prices broken down into square foot prices. Saves time breaking down prints, and he lets me know if there are any hidden suprises to up charge for(i.e. a solid cherry staircase, or 5 doors in one room).
I don't suggest it for everyone, but it works for my situation.
dustinf - regarding where you wrote "...
New construction trim also depends. Anywhere from $1.50/sf-$5.00/sf." and "...
Square foot. I only trim for one custom builder, so I have the prices broken down into square foot prices. Saves time breaking down prints, and he lets me know if there are any hidden suprises to up charge for(i.e. a solid cherry staircase, or 5 doors in one room). "
I think it pretty well known I not a big fan of Square Foot estimating especially for interior finish work which is our specialty. Rather than writing something tonight I'm going to repost something I posted in another topic here back in March.
For a couple of weeks now I've been over in the JLC forums debating the merits of Square Foot estimating, that is basing your price on the square footage of the project living space. There is no real hard correalation between the square footage of the project living space and how much time and material the project will take that you can trust. To be really safe and secure you really need to work from a Systems or Unit Cost Estimate to bid a framing project.
I have a paper I wrote entitled The Hidden Dangers of Square Foot Estimating and there is a great article from the July '99 issue of JLC by Sal Alfano entitled Unit-Pricing Pitfalls that illustrates the problem too.
In that article Mr. Alfano writes that if an estimator doesn't identify the correct Unit or Units to estimate a project by then the contractor can really take it hard on the chin. The article gives some excellent examples of why SF of living space is the wrong Unit to base an estimate on. Quote:
On page two of the article there is a excellent chart and graphic display where Mr Alfano illustrates the problem of even using SF as the unit in a what is an Assembly or System cost. He compares three different shapes of the same 400 SF 2 x 10 Deck System or Assembly and then he writes:Quote:
A Square Foot estimate is subject to a typical error of ±15%. That means the average error is ±15%, the real range of error is much greater and I looked at projects where a SF estimate would have been of by 35% and I am sure there are project scenartios where that could go even higher.
The arguement over on JLC for those in favor of SF estimating is well all the framing contractors do it so it has to be the right method. Well I know more framing contractors that complain about how hard it is to make money in this business than I do any other trade contractor and I attribute that to there using SF forumulas to estimate projects.
I've posted this graphic her before. The two floor plans below are both 750 SF. Which one will take more time and materials to frame?
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While the topic was framing when I wrote that post the same rules apply for trim work too. Looking at those tow floor plans which version will take longer to trim? Both of those floor plans are 1000 sf but the lower plan has more trim. There is 408'-6" linear feet in the top one and the lower has 503'-9" linear feet. The lower one has at least 23% more trim! at least 23% More! I say at least in that what happens if one of those rooms in the lower floor plan also happens to have three piece crown in two of the rooms too. They are still both 1000 sf but one costs a lot more to trim than the other. They don't look that much different but the math doesn't lie. Does this builder you work for tell you when there is 23% more trim to install too?
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Jerrald,
You've made some very valid points, and I agree with most. I've run the numbers on most of the houses I have priced by the square foot. I keep a daily log of what tasks I completed, how long I worked, miles traveled, down time, and everything else I can think of(one habit I can thank the IRS for).
Since the builder I work for builds custom homes, they are all different. Some of them I make more on, some less. It averages out to a wage that I'm comfortable with.
As I stated in my original post, I don't recommend it for every situation. This situation works for me. I don't use square foot prices for any other jobs. Although, the log information is very useful when bidding other jobs.
I agree that the numbers can be misleading due to geography etc. I was looking for a general, overall view on how contractors liked to bid for cabinet finish work. Incidentally, I did some research in my area (greater Seattle Tacoma, WA), and discovered that
A. Most contractors do all their bids (if at all) based on an hourly rate ranging from 45-$65 per hour and some up to $75 p.h. depending. A majority won't give a bid at all, rather state this is our hourly rate...take it or leave it.
B. The average range for contractors who bid by the job was 55-$75 "per box" and provided their own fasteners.
That being said, I called the G.C.'s bluff. Evidently, he doesn't like people to research or to ask questions. He was looking to pay 25-$30 per box, and uses the old dollar sign romancing to attract young, newer business owners, burns them out, and then kicks them to the curb when they catch on. More more more, faster faster faster...oh you want more money? Later fella. I kinda figured that to be the more likely scenario, but a "friend" was the one doing the recruiting as well as the "promise" making. I am always looking to expand my business but want to be VERY careful, hence the post. I appreciate all of your input, as it definitely raises some seriously valid points that I had just been tickling with the edge of my thinking. Quite a few other contractors have looked at me like I am crazy when I go to scribe a panel or base, or window box or whatever and they always say the same thing..."Do your best, caulk the rest"....WHAAAAAT? I usually respond with "your best should not include caulk".. More and more I find that homeowners hate the mentalility of "good enough" they want, and more importantly seem to know, real quality. I was taught from an early age by an old school craftsman who dealt only in finish work (trim, cabinet making and installing, built ins, etc.) and learned that with the newer tools combined with that knowledge you can be faster, and better at a competitive price.
I get so sick of hearing "that's the way it has always been done". What, they had acrylic caulk in the chip and dale era? Old craftsman and American bungalow homes are held together by elastomerics? I know that caulk has to be used from time to time (eg painted trim, tile, blah blah blah) but it should only be used on purpose for a purpose, not to cover an error. And for heavens sake, if you are going to use it make it blend beautifully.
Sorry for the tirade but all this talk about not using caulk got me excited that I'm not a wierdo ...well not completely.
RangerX with all due respect to the folks who with all good intentions are trying to help you out I think you should ignore what they are saying for a number of reasons.
First of all any discussion of rates for comparison purposes without specifying what region and/or market you are talking about is really just worthless banter. For instance while a finish carpentry contractor in Texas may actually charge $35 per hour as a going rate for finish work here in NY that $35 is barely covers the wage portion for a finish carpenter. Given that we are all from different parts of the country I happen to think that any discussion of the rates we charge is really just a waste of time and to a neophyte contractor like yourself it can be tragically misleading. For instance if I was to tell you what we charge even when you know that we're in Westchester County NY and Fairfield County CT how in the world would you know how to translate that accurately into a figure for the Pacific Northwest (which by the way is a huge region and too huge an area for any practical discussion I am 100% sure that the rates charged in metro Seattle area are higher than they are out in the surrounding country.
Secondly for it to work you rate has to be specific you and what your costs of doing business are. Setting your rates based on what everyone else charges is also potentially suicidal. Number one how do you know they are charging the right rate. They may be just barely surviving with what they're charging. And number two they may have different fixed costs than you do. For instance do you have a shop space with a lot of tooling you're paying rent for? Probably not. Where if I was to give you our rates all that is figured into the rates we charge.
You need to figure out what rate you are going to charge and then apply that rate to the hours you'll be estimating your projects to take.
My suggestion to you is to:
And for a word of Caution Do Not let yourself get tempted into charging for trim by the Square Foot. That a devils trick and you'll get screwed for it eventually. (I'll explain why when I get a response written in reply to dustinf's message #59861.14).
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Jerald wrote:
First of all any discussion of rates for comparison purposes without specifying what region and/or market you are talking about is really just worthless banter. For instance while a finish carpentry contractor in Texas may actually charge $35 per hour as a going rate for finish work here in NY that $35 is barely covers the wage portion for a finish carpenter.
Secondly for it to work you rate has to be specific you and what your costs of doing business are. Setting your rates based on what everyone else charges is also potentially suicidal.
You need to figure out what rate you are going to charge and then apply that rate to the hours you'll be estimating your projects to take.
Jerald you hit the nail right on the head on this one! Good Post!
one comment on your comparison of New york & Texas Carpentry rates.
To me its seem the $35.00 an hour represents a good wage benefit & tax sum. However what about overhead and profit?
A)Wage $22.00
B)Benefits & taxes =$14.60
C) overhead = $
D) Profit=$
Is it safe to assume that if the market is $35.00 an hour for sub carpentry in Texas that the builders are also working on a margin of sum 60% of what it takes to satisfy a decent living salary and run thier company lets say (7.2% margin)?
Tom
Most of you guys would go Hungry here, all of the major builders who use cabinets from the major national cabinet suppliers, the installers get $11-15 a box. They don't consider toe kick scribe or fillers as a box. Will pay extra for crown. 42" uppers pay the same as 30". Most of the installers work 8-10 hrs solo on 1 kitchen that pays $250-300.
Project I did a few years back, had a young Gun who could come out & stock 3 kitchens in a few hrs. ( hump from garage to kitchens & baths up to 32 steps) late in the day. Then the next day he would install all 3 & be rolling up by 2:30. $700-to $900 for a Good Day!
G80104 - "
Most of you guys would go Hungry here, all of the major builders who use cabinets from the major national cabinet suppliers, the installers get $11-15 a box."
I take it you're saying we would go hungry becuse we charge so much we wouldn't get any work? I see $11-15 a box. and I would think we would very certainly go hungry because that $11-15 a box might cover our ovehead but we wouldn't be able to pay ourselves anything to buy food with. Unless of course we could install 6 cabinets an hour!
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Yes in deed!
Is that Castlerock, CO in your profile photo.
Yes it is! But the Rock is to the East, that picture is to the West! Up by the Graveyard.
I charge $20. per lineal foot for bases and uppers. Every fill no matter how small is considered one foot. Refrigerator panels, island skins and any other sheet panels are measured across (a fridge panel is 24" - island 34 1/2" etc.). All oven wall units are counted as three cabinets (lower,mid,upper). Any base that needs to be attached is counted as a cab. Corner units are measured along both back walls ( 27" + 27" for a corner upper). All feature moulding (crown ,light rail,rope, toe kick,corner guard ,etc. ) is $25. per corner. Any brackets , flutes, or such is $25 per piece. All hardware is $5. per handle or knob. Setting an island is another $150. Any other special features are on a job by job basis. I don't set shelves nor do I set appliances. If they can find a wooden kitchen appliance I'd be more than happy to set it, otherwise get an appliance guy or an electrician.