OK, so I will uphold my reputation for asking silly questions – here goes.
Second hand story, so may be inaccurate. I am not involved in this transaction in any way.
Homeowner contacted one of the “soup to nuts” kitchen supply companies here in town. HO wants new granite counter tops in their ~5 YO home – kitchen. Remove Corian, install granite with a new sink. This company sells cabinets, counter tops, appliances, plumbing fixtures, appliances, etc – not a big box store.
Company representative (read as “salesman”) comes to their home to check out the job, tells HO that their cabinets are not strong enough to support granite tops – company can remedy this problem by replacing all of the cabinets. Sounds like a hustle. Cabinet construction / material unknown to me.
My silly question: So just what is needed in terms of base cabinet construction to support granite tops?
Just my “seat of the pants” feeling says that even a particle board box should be able to support granite as even particle board in compression is pretty strong stuff. But I have been wrong before…………
What say you?
Jim
Replies
Maybe sounds a little fishy. But I would withhold judgement until I saw the cabinets, and talked with the salesman. Sometimes stuff gets turned around in the re-telling.
In my experience, if the client is springing for new granite, they're generally gonna want new cab's also.
CaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
Sounds like a hustle to me also. I can't believe any responsible sales person would suggest that to a customer. I've had stone templaters tell me that portions of a cabinet should be reinforced, but that's it. Show that salesman/woman the door, fast!!
Just about any factory-manufactured cabinet properly installed will support a stone top. Most of these cabinets are KCMA (Kitchen Cabinet Manufacturing Association) tested and certified for strength, resistance to racking, etc. and are perfectly capable of holding anything you want to put on top. My experience with small local cabinet shops is that their product is just fine for stone tops, also. Even the KD cabinets or stock DIY from the big boxes will do. On bigger boxes that seem limber extra bracing can be provided to support heavy tops. The same can be done for any cabinet already in place.
Since the HO's house is only 5 years old, I doubt they have anything but the usual cabinet construction.
Any time you need info on cabinets or anything else for kitchen/bath, the KCMA has a website and you can get links and other info on the NKBA website, nkba.org, of which I'm a member.
maybe sounds ALOT fishy.
haven't seen a set of cab's yet that won't hold a granite CT.
I'd suggest running to the next granite place for a second opinion.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Did some work at the house of the guy I've built three upscale coffee bars for. Well off and generally pretty good taste.
He prides himself as handy and had actually installed the kitchen when he had his house expanded several years back. Maple melamine faced particleboard knockdowns he bought from Home Depot, only part of the hardware installed and about three screws holding the cabinets to the walls, none holding down the post-form countertops. He's thrilled with it.
Cabinets should have been replaced when he put granite in this spring, but instead, I spent the day aligning, squaring, bracing and fastening to get them to a point the granite guy would touch them.
I would have recommended replacing the cabinets. The granite will still look good in a decade, but the cabinets are going to really look like sh!t in one or two more years.
"...I would have recommended replacing the cabinets. The granite will still look good in a decade, but the cabinets are going to really look like sh!t in one or two more years."
Your post hit on what I was angling at. Most cabinets will hold granite, but not all pre-existing cabinets are ideal for an expensive granite install. Melamine faced particleboard is exactly what I had in mind with my original comment. Explain that to a homeowner with no trade experience, and its likely to come out "the granite guys said my cabinets aren't strong enough to hold granite."
Its easy to jump to conclusions based on partial knowledge, we see it happen here on BT all the time. The only way to know the condition of the cabinets is to visually inspect them. And the only way to know what the salesperson was thinking is to ask him or her.
Sure, its also possible the salesperson was just pushing their own agenda on an uneducated consumer. Happens all the time in the auto repair industry. But you can't post a few second-hand comments here and expect a definitive analysis of the actual situation.View Image “Good work costs much more than poor imitation or factory product” – Charles GreeneCaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
Ran into the "lipstick on a pig" scenario working for HD. They'd run a special, pretty soon everyone is coming in with kitchens from the 70's wanting to paint the cabinets and upgrade the tops to granite.
What can you say other than they might want to reconsider as their cabinets have really exceeded their expected lifespan?
Maybe I should take my own advice...I keep fixing this 14 year old truck like it's going to run forever!
I have repainted old cabinets. I charges a small fortune and you could with a few dollars more got new cabinets. HO said they were custom built. (woooo) I thought they looked like ####. Also people would replace their counter tops and use their old ratty sink and faucet. Those jobs always left me shaking and scratching my head. And some even recommended me to others with good results. I guess a lead is a lead.
HO said they were custom built.
I've come to the realization that just because they're custom does not mean they were built with any quality in mind!
And like you I always wonder when I have to reuse the faucet? The sink I understand..........
Doug
Oh, yeah, I've been down the "custom built" road a time or two. Sometimes I get to take my customers to see an installation of the custom line I work with; it gives them a whole new perspective!
You know, it's nearly impossible here to get people to paint existing cabinets, and forget refinishing. You could probably get cabinets and granite for that price!
My idea of custom cabinets is Wm Ohs. Don't even want to know what those puppies cost!! But, they sure are beautiful.
As a cabinet maker I outsourced all my doors and drawer fronts and even was a dealer of factory made cabinets. I was introduced to an English cabinet company that used reclaimed wood. A 24 inch base unit was slightly over 2000 bucks. But they were absolutely beautiful. I never had a client to sell them to. Shucks!
I never had a client to sell them to. Shucks!
Yeah, and even as dealers we can't afford to put those in our own kitchens!! Surely nice to see the craftsmanship still exists.
As a dealer I didn't even have a showroom. I was sooo poor I couldn't even pay attention. Most of my sales was to contractors who were building spec houses. Since I didn't have a showroom I could sell pretty low.
Repairing the old isn't always a bad idea.My Cherokee is an '89, bought it three years ago with 60k miles on the clock. I keep it up to snuff mechanically; the cost of doing that is far less than making payments on a new one. I also keep up the cosmetics so clients don't take away any bad impression other than that I am eccentric.I expect at least three more years out of it and figure my vehicle capital and maintenance costs will run me less than seven cents a mile over it's life and less if I include any resale value, a total that amounts to less than the down payment on a new one.The truck serves my needs perfectly and I have better and more important uses for my earnings than ensuring my vehicle is a recent model.
My Cherokee is an '89, bought it three years ago with 60k miles on the clock
Got ya beat there mileage-wise with my van. It's a 95 Windstar, running over 240k now. Had a thermostat failure about 7 years ago and got a new block, ran the same transmission for 195k, and still have the original shocks and struts. Would that all cars would hold up like this one. I need to get about 2 more years out of it.
However, I am reallllllyyy bad about washing, and the interior usually looks like vagrants use it fo recreation.
In the last several years what I bought instead of a shiny new car was a shiny new Kubota tractor for my husband. Lord, that costs enough!!
I'm all for maintaining a decent vehicle for extended periods of time and saving some money, but if you've got the original shocks and struts after that many miles, you are likely to have compromised the safety and handling of the vehicle. You might want to reconsider, or at the very least get them inspected by a reputable shop.
Have to agree about the safety. Last week I noticed that I was bouncing more than normal over some highway dips, so it is time to get things checked. With vans it's usually the rear shocks - I put 2 sets on my last one in its 225k mile lifetime.
Thanks for the reminder and good advice to everyone else with older vehicles!
Thanks for the reminder and good advice to everyone else with older vehicles - my ears were burning!
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View ImageView Image “Good work costs much more than poor imitation or factory product” – Charles GreeneCaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
Hey, yours looks way better than either our old truck or van! And I'll bet you can open all the doors, too!
thanks for the reminder, one of vans could really use some new shocks
I just went on a service call for "doors not fitting". The install is so bad I would have said no to granite on this job too.
By the way the doors are flat and square by all the cabs are racked or out of level. I don't know what the outcome will be.
As a custom cabinet maker, I would be willing to give the "customer representative" the benefit of the doubt.
I often see situations where "builders cabinets" are ok for the counter top that was originally installed, but may be marginal (or inadequate) for a stone or concrete counter top. Sometimes, they can be reinforced, but that can get costly in a hurry.
Another issue is removing the old counter top without extensively damaging the cabinets. Most tops are installed with construction adhesive and they ain't coming apart without a fight. I've done it a couple of times, but the cabs needed some significant repair work before the new tops could go in.
Anyone who installs countertops with construction adhesive should be hung.
"Anyone who installs countertops with construction adhesive should be hung."
View ImageView Image “Good work costs much more than poor imitation or factory product” – Charles GreeneCaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
Perhaps they should, but it's pretty common. - lol
Thank you!
Our company did an install last year for a quartz synthetic..............I was embarassed that we even do the job.
Dark oak cabinets from the 70's with pressboard sides and backs. Some of the face frames had allready gravitatied downward.
Hey, they wanted quartz countertops.............
Not my call. The top is still "up".
yourcontractor@aol.com
Thanks to all who replied.
It sounds like the general consensus is that most base cabinets, if installed properly, will support a granite top. Or, perhaps require some reinforcement or bracing in a few points which the templaters could / would point out.
Sounds like a good base cabinet installation is the determining factor even for a lower end cabinet.
Jim