I am looking for current opinions on CAD software and large format printers/plotters. Over the years there have been many, many posts here on these topics, and I have read most if not all of them. Products evolve and change and new products show up. Opinions based on recent experiences would be particularly helpful.
Based on my research and what I have been reading, I am gravitating toward Chief Architect and an HP Designjet T610 24″ printer (the HP Designjet 500 came out in March 2000; the Designjet T610 came out in July 2007; both are 24″). I flirted with the idea of AutoCAD because it is so much more capable. However the AutoCAD learning curve causes the concern that learning it will take the focus away from my primary purpose.
My goal is to take a set of hand drafted drawings for a house and create them in CAD, so I can have consistent and accurate drawings prior to construction. It is possible that I don’t do another house in CAD after this one. I’d also like to be able to play around with the design, even though the overall layout and design are more or less set. I’ll enjoy doing this. I have had training on drafting quite a few years back, though no CAD experience. In general I am pretty good with computers and software.
Getting up and running efficiently, and being able to produce decent working drawings is important. Take-offs are secondary.
I would be grateful for current opinions.
Edited 5/8/2008 1:01 pm ET by alfie
Replies
Did I understand that is probably the only house you will design in CAD? A personal project for yourself?
If that's case my advice would be to skip spending 5500 on a program and plotter and work with an architect or home designer, from a financial perspective, it would be cheaper and their input may be valuable.
If you have your heart set on doing it I'd buy Chief, Autocad is LESS capable then Chief for home design. At least in an efficient manner anyway. I use AutoCad and have recently purchased Chief though I haven't had any time to actually use or learn it yet.
The little I played around with Chief so far it seems pretty intuitive, though I've been working with AutoCad for 12 years now.
AutoCad is great if you have years to learn it and want line drawings, for 3D renderings for a house it stinks, mechanical design is something different. Chief is object based and much easier to "build your house"
As for the plotter, forget it if this is one time deal. If you want larger drawings look at a HP Officejet Pro K8600 or an Epson Stylus Photo 1400, either will print up to 13x19 and cost around $300.00
That will be large enough for you to look at and edit, for the final set of plans take the files to a copy store and print as large as you wish.
That's my 2cents anyway
I've used AutoCAD for about 13 years so I know how to work around the flaws in the software for home design projects. We use it at work on commercial jobs everyday. I use it for stuff on my own house - just finished designing all of our landscaping and new patio. 3D is a complete PITA and I avoid it. I use SketchUp for quick visualizations. If you don't have CAD experience and want to do renderings, AutoCAD is not the program for you.
If this is a one time thing, I'd buy Adobe Acrobat Pro to make PDFs of your drawings and then send them to a digital printing company. Also lets you email the drawings to anyone you need during bidding and actual construction.
If you have your heart set on a plotter, look into the costs of the all of the consumables like ink/toner and paper and any maintenance that needs to be done on a regular basis. We have a big Xerox at work - toner is $255 every 4,000 sheets or so, paper is about $30 a roll for 250 sheets (less if you buy it by the 44 roll pallet like we do), it is constantly needing to be cleaned (makes the monthly service agreement worthwhile).
For creating .pdf files for emailing to a print shop, you can use one of the GhostScript engine-based freebies out there. The one I use occasionally is called PDF995. You can download it free, pay them $9.95 for the popup ad-free version if you find it useful.
I have a HP 9000 or similar printer (not close enough to see the number) and it does 11x17 paper. Might do bigger, but 11x17 is a stock size at Office Depot. Does a great job. I agree with the jayhawk: be realistic in what you buy. You can do an overall floor plan at a small scale, and have additional pages that show enlarged areas.
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
ever found a source for 13x19? I havent looked in a while, last time i did it was 50 bucks for 500 sheets.... seemed a bit much
Thanks for the input. I'd like to have a 24" printer around for a variety of applications. My need is low volume, but when I need it, it would be handy to have such a printer around. I have a 13"x19" printer, but I am tired of running out to print larger stuff. So the question is "which one", rather than "if", as regards a 24" printer. I'd love to have an even bigger printer, but they seem to get much more expensive once you go beyond 24".The software for a one-time application is a bit of an indulgence. Still, I'd like to get it. My AutoCAD-using friends look down at other programs, so to speak. But, they are in to commercial and institutional work. My argument is that most people who post on the topic in this forum seems to use Chief Architect, SoftPlan etc, and that tells me something. Efficient drawing is of interest to me, renderings are less important. 3D is highly desirable.OK, it is a valid point that one could print out smaller areas on 13"x19", and I'll think more about that. Yeah, that size paper is hard to find and expensive last I looked.
if you want something that last forever, think about autocad lite, its the basic without all the whisles. But same commands at autocad. autocad will be here forever.
SoftPlan Lite is a good program for about $1,000. That's what I use.
If you aren't sure about the printer and/or how much you'll use it, try looking for a used one. I found a used one through someone here at BT pretty reasonable.
Or you can email PDF files to a print shop, as someone already mentioned.
Shhhh....!Keep that quiet. We want him to buy the brand spanking new printer and then sell it slightly used to us here for half price in a year.;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Nice try. In about 15 years I'll consider giving it to you. Not any sooner. That too only if they don't have a trade-in rebate at the time. You can exhale now.
Alfie, I'd go over to Chieftalk.com and do a search about printers and plotters. I think you'll find a lot of information there. Chief ships their programs with the PDF995 software. It's a painless free PDF writer program as mentioned earlier in this thread. I'd send the 9.95 in to stop the popup every time I print, but I"m just too lazy to go find the credit card and it's easier to just x out the popup LOL! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Thanks for all the input folks - it is very helpful.I've got Adobe Acrobat and use it all the time, so that should do fine for creating PDFs.
I can't help you with the architectural program. I use Autocad Civil 3D and a bunch of other very expen$ive engineering software for my business.
I have been looking into a new color inkjet, as my old one is an HP650C and somewhat antiquated, almost impossible to get parts or service for it. It's less then 15 years old, but in the computer industry, that's an antique for sure. At least I CAN still get cartridges and printheads for it, so I'm still good to go. As for a new one, I've narrowed my choices down to the 610 which you picked out, and the smaller and slower 110. The 110 will do 24", and for occasional use you'll save yourself a LOT of money. The other thought is to look around for an older model. You can find decent older models, used, on eBay or craigslist for less than $500. I'd be willing to let mine go for a few hundred, for that matter.
The thing with the lite versions of all the CAD programs is that they take away useful features (hence the lite) that I'd want.The printer search started when I noticed a flyer at my print house advertising printers for lease. The least expensive was the "HP 110plus nr" and it caught my eye. Of course the lease price is high, if I want it I'd buy it, which is a much better deal. Then I started to research printers. Eventually started to talk myself into the T610. Y'all know how that goes.For anybody in the market for a large format HP printer (24" or bigger) - they currently have a trade-in rebate. All you have to do is turn in a 24" or bigger printer, and buy a new one. It doesn't even say the trade-in has to work. Check HP's website - as I recall the rebates go from $250 to $2,000, the latter being for pretty expensive printers (the classic spend more, save more). For the T610 there's a $250 rebate.
Edited 5/8/2008 2:35 pm ET by alfie
they take away useful features (hence the lite)
We just upgraded/updated to Lite 2008 last month from Autocad 2004 or similar. I think you would be very surprised at what little is left out. There is also AutoSketch which is very good but much more basic ... maybe that's what you are thinking about. Now if you want 3d, then SoftPlan or Chief is a good choice."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
the latest version of chief is 11 ( X1)
but a lot of people are still using 10 and even 9... both are excellent versions
i have 11, but work in 10
you can find legal versions for sale on ebay, on the Chief User's group ( yahoo ) and on craig's list
make sure it is a legal license and it is transferable
and
our plotter is an HP 500 x 24" roll feed....
i would think the new version of the HP 500 that you are looking at would be a good deal and you could resell it if you no longer needed it..make sure you buy the stand, the roll feed, and any additonal memory that they sell
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Chief also makes the Better Homes and Garden Home Desinger.The last time I looked I think that they had 3 versions. The top end was a $500 "pro" (which you can buy for $450) and you can trade that in on the "full" blow version if you want to.Some place on BH&G or Chief's website they have a comparision chart showing what features each version has.Even in the full blown version are several versions that include more features..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
I was just going to say what BillH did, I have the Home Designer Pro, it is a Chief Arch lite version in a way. Paid like $450 through Amazon you can try that out and see if it does what you want then upgrade to the full Chief program for $2000 or so and get your $500 back. I also have Auto Cad Lite great for my mechanical projects but too slow for house plans, learning curve there.
Jeff
We have the Designjet 500 and it works pretty good. you can get cheap paper from cdw.com (i think around 15/roll) for most stuff. the cartridges are around 240 for a full set, and printheads are around the same, but last longer.
it is much faster than the old 450 we had. i havent looked into the t610.
If you really want a plotter, you can sometimes find a really good deal on e-bay IF you look at the ones that are pickup only. I scored an HP 750C out of Cleveland (NASA) for $195. I did have to do a belt replacement, but belts are $16.50. And I payed $50 to have someone deliver it for me.
Thanks. I'll look around for a plotter. I am not in hurry, so can wait.
In place of generatoring a PDF you can install a PDF printer drive on then use that to "print to file". And then take that file and copy to a PDF printer.Now this does require a PDF printer, but I think that most of them in this class are PDF. The PDF printer file is similar to, but different from a PDF file..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.