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I’m with your line of thinking, Andrew, unless you need it for hanging a ledger for a porch or deck, roof or other possible structure (it could still be done, just woe to someone who thinks it is a solid rim joist without taking a look!)
What did it have before?
MD
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Replies
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I'm with your line of thinking, Andrew, unless you need it for hanging a ledger for a porch or deck, roof or other possible structure (it could still be done, just woe to someone who thinks it is a solid rim joist without taking a look!)
What did it have before?
MD
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Rafters, set on a 2x4 notched into the joists. Probably not up to code these days, but 60 years ago, what the heck. Unless I hear a good reason otherwise, I'll just block and seal carefully. I'm considering a small bumpout, and will just cantilever for that. I recalled that you have to block a cantilever at the beam or top plate, that's what got me thinking about the purpose of the rim joist.
Good point on the ledger. How much effort should we put into protecting lazy remodelers down the road? Hmm. I'm busy enough ripping out the work of remodelers of the past. Like the military fella who insulated our Cape roof: apparently all the masking tape he used wasn't enough to hold the paper-faced fg batts in place, so he nailed cardboard from old boxes up over the entire rafter surface. Major, major firetrap ... esp. when you look at his fanciful approach to electrical wiring. But I digress...
*Andrew, The situation you describe with the blocking vs. rim joist is identical to a section of our house that was added at some point in the past. It's been that way for many years and I have no intention of changing it; it seems to be just fine. As for that wiring, heck, it's got some armored cabling, what more could a guy ask for? :-) Sam
*JAYSUS! Was that in the wall?
*On wiring: this pic is just "typical" of what I've found all over the house. In fact, I sort of avoid opening the walls upstairs 'cause i knew I'd find stuff like this and then have no choice but to turn it off, as I have everywhere else. We kept the power demand looooow.The armored cable -- notice how it stops safely short of the box? And when it did reach the box (if he did use a box -- I've found "surprise" splices all over the place), nitwit ALWAYS wrapped it in black tape to "protect" it and prevent anything nasty, like GROUNDING, from happening. Sigh.30 years and no fire. There is a God.
*Hey, last year I did a "gut job" remodel for a friend's Mom. She said that they would go feel the old screw in fuses and turn stuff off if they were hot! The electrician (who I've used for several years) took one look and almost started hyperventilating. Wanted them to move out that night, pacing back and forth, beside himself with worry about the safety.I looked at a job a couple weeks ago and the guy showed me the new 200 amp service a previous remodeler had installed for him...you won't believe this one...it was in his elementry school aged daughter's closet and there it was with NO cover! I shit you not. There were her little dresses and blouses hanging right next to an open service! I said "where's the cover?" He says "ah, um, it was around here somewhere". Can you imagine? How many times had she just missed gettin' fried reachin' for clothing? I don't think the average person realizes the danger of electricity. Scary.
*Geez, I'm sorry adrew, I just read your original question. I think the purpose of rim joists is as you descrbed it. In fact, I've always wondered why we use 2X instead of 1X for at least some rims. Now I guess they are using a lot of that 1" paralam (or whatever that stuff is called).
*No problem, I have nothing against digressions. Electricity is funny -- laypeople are either scared to death of it or have no respect whatsoever. I worry not so much about electrocution as causing a fire, which i think a lot of folks don't even think about as a hazard.I knew there were a couple of electrical problems with th ehouse when we moved in but hardly counted on rewiring the whole place. If I'd had to pay someone else to do it I'd be bugsh*t. But I kind of like wiring myself, except for fishing...
*jim,I spent fifteen months as the inspector for the local housing authority, and I found a box exactly as you describe. In the kid's closet without a cover.I also found an uncovered meter base on the side of a storage building on one of the authority's sites. I went straight back to the office and asked the maintenance supervisor about it. "oh that, the power is off at the pole." "Well, OK" I said, but I wasn't very comfortable with it. The next day, he comes into my office, says it bugged him so he went out to check, and it was live. Thank God it was actually six feet from the ground. By definition, a lot of kids on that site.Rich Beckman
*Back to the blocking. I just built an addition that was designed without a rim joist but with solid blocking as you described. It was stamped by a PE and by the town's engineer. The rim is mainly to resist lateral force and the blocking does the same job.Jerry
*Man Rich, I'll tell you, when I saw that thing in that closet, at first I thought he had just removed the cover to do something, but when I saw what the deal really was, my blood ran cold. Gives me the willies right now, just thinkin' about it.You listen to "Strong Persuader" the other day?
*"later force" a.k.a. "rolling"? Thanks Jerry, right on target.
*Yeah, the willies. Wonder how many boxes like that there are in the country right now....Actually, the CD I have is Some Rainy Morning(?) but I got to work and my CD player decided to not work. It only lasted a year and stilli looksgood. Its predecessor lasted three years and looked like hell before it stopped working. I'm putting Stong Persuader on my Christmas list with Burnside and a mess of others.Rich Beckman
*I don't think you'll be disappointed. I have heard a lot of his stuff since then that didn't catch my ear, but that alblum is really good. As good as "Breezin" by George Benson. I gotta check out Keb Mo's first alblum, still haven't heard that one.
*Yup - rolling.
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I see the same electrician who worked on my house has been
to yours A.D. My favorite picture is three big garbage cans
out by the street full of miles of his "work"
MD
xx
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Feels good, doesn't it? If only I could wrap all that wire around his neck and plug it in...
*LOL
*Andrew - I've always understood the rim board to be used to support the wall above, not necessarilly to prevent "rolling". I don't see any reason why blocking couldn't do that.
*A friend of mine found that his entire second floor was wired with 18 gauge lamp cords (no ground eihther). Another neighbor found the second floor wired with old extension cords. Both were sealed in the wall. Hmmm I wonder why the lights are so dim???
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This is a retrofit situation; cutting back the joists to make room for a rim would be a pain. I figure that the purpose of the rim is primarily to prevent the joists from rolling, and to keep the bottom plate above from sagging. (Plus it makes airsealing easier.) True? False? Half-true-false?