Replies

1. 
   McDesign | Jul 09, 2008 04:50am | #1

   Yes.

   Forrest

2. 
   NatW | Jul 09, 2008 05:07am | #2

   Last dishwasher I purchased came with a plastic tape to put under the counter above the steam outlet to prevent damage. Don't like the countertop so I set it aside to use when I get around to replacing it. Wonder where that was...

3. 
   DaveRicheson | Jul 09, 2008 12:49pm | #3

   Post form tops are generally made from particle board.

   The steam will swell it and delaminate the p-lam.

   Pull the dishwasher and glue another oiece of p-lam under the edge of the top at the dishwasher oprwening. Go back 8 to 10 inches from the front edge with the p-lam.

   No sealer or tape will stand up very long to the seam. Sealing the bottom with another piece of p-lam will get you a much longer life out of the top.

1. 
   edwardh1 | Jul 09, 2008 02:48pm | #4

   DAve thanks
   what is p-lam?

1. 
   peteshlagor | Jul 09, 2008 04:08pm | #5

   plastic laminate?

    

4. 
   DanH | Jul 09, 2008 04:11pm | #6

   Yep. At the very least such areas should be sealed with varnish or perhaps an epoxy coating.

   It is an ironic habit of human beings to run faster when we have lost our way. --Rollo May
1. 
   edwardh1 | Jul 09, 2008 04:13pm | #8

   HAve you done that ok - seems the varnish might cause some particle board swelling itself?

5. 
   DanH | Jul 09, 2008 04:13pm | #7

   Another area to worry about is around the sink, where water may drip over the edge.

   It is an ironic habit of human beings to run faster when we have lost our way. --Rollo May
6. 
   hammer1 | Jul 09, 2008 04:18pm | #9

   I've installed many postformed laminate tops over the years, well over 100. Never had a problem caused by the dishwasher. Most folks don't run it with the door open! There is no reason to worry about a dishwasher causing the laminate to lift. I have had swelling around a sink cutout from water getting under the sink lip that wasn't correctly sealed.

   P-lam is short for plastic laminate, Formica, Wilson Art, etc. The P-lam used for postformed tops is thinner than standard laminate, so it will make the necessary bends.

   Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

1. 
   edwardh1 | Jul 09, 2008 04:21pm | #10

   My dishwashers have never bothered the counter top either,
   but the counter top does get a blast of steam when you open the dishwasher door

2. 
   DaveRicheson | Jul 09, 2008 11:05pm | #11

   I've installed many postformed laminate tops over the years, well over 100

   I did that many on my first HUD job in six months. Next one was a 296 unit  job with dishwashers. I counted counter top instead of sheep to fall asleep from 1978 untill the mid eighties :(

   Thats where I learned to seal that area. Hud holds 10% of every draw untill the the one year anniversry of completion date, and then they keep 2% for another year.

   They don't care whose fault the problem is. They won't release your money untill its fixed.

1. 
   hammer1 | Jul 10, 2008 12:29am | #14

   No HUD jobs out here in the country, back then it was FmHA, FHA or VA. Can't remember most of those homes even having a dishwasher in those days. The last payment would come after the final inspection. If an Acme #37 toilet paper holder was on the specs, it had better be there and not a #38. It took longer to do the paper work than it did to build the house.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

1. 
   DaveRicheson | Jul 10, 2008 01:04pm | #19

   It took longer to do the paper work than it did to build the house

   Ain't that the truth.

   Get something wrong on one line of a federal form and you might have to wait another three months for your check. Seems like I sent in at least one insurance certificate with each draw request too. So many small outfits like me would get their insurance to start a job and then let it lasp after a month or so, that HUD required proof you still had it every time they released funds to the general.

   I hated that retainages, but understood why they did it. Call backs  weren't hard to get, when they were holding a pocket full of your money.

   I later went to work for the general contractor and had to give up the cabinet installs as a sub-contractor because HUD said it presented a conflict of interest. I was to honest to set up a front company like some guys did. I saw a lot of that happen when the big push started for a certain percentage of minority owned companies were required on every project.

   I had a post form top in my own house for many years and never had a problem with the dishwasher area. The ones I saw swell were all on those HUD projects. Maybe 1 to 3%, and I could never be sure if it was just cheap tops, tenet abuse, or cheap dishwashers. I just got in the routine of laminating everyone of those openings during the install. That was a lot easier, safer, and cheaper than a call back run to bf Egypt.

3. 
   brucet9 | Jul 09, 2008 11:26pm | #12

   "Most folks don't run it with the door open! "No, they don't, but many people, my wife included, save electricity by opening the door when the drying cycle starts so the stuff can just air dry. This releases a huge amount of steam that continues for quite some time.
   BruceT

1. 
   hammer1 | Jul 10, 2008 12:30am | #15

   Did it hurt your countertop?Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

1. 
   brucet9 | Jul 10, 2008 01:10am | #17

   We have had no damage - Corian over a quality plywood base; installed 25 years ago.BruceT

   Edited 7/9/2008 6:23 pm by brucet9

7. 
   MarkH | Jul 09, 2008 11:35pm | #13

   I have had a dishwasher under an old preformed countertop for 15 years with no swelling.

8. 
   IMERC | Jul 10, 2008 12:30am | #16

   they sure can destroy the snot outta thermoply...

    

   Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming

   WOW!!! What a Ride!
   Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!

9. 
   TonySD | Jul 10, 2008 03:11am | #18

   my dishwasher has a place for the steem to escape that's only about 3inches below the counter top; that would certainly cause the top to swell. I would say it depends on the dw.

   I

10. 
    5brown1 | Jul 10, 2008 03:51pm | #20

    Yes it can. Our new dishwasher has a vent which allows the exhaust to move upward and cause the particle board to begin to swell. The manufacturer had a kit consisting of a foil tape which was to be applied to the counter top to stop the swelling but it was worthless.
    We now just use a piece of aluminum foil between the counter and top of the dishwasher door to direct the steam away. A PITA but it works.

1. 
   edwardh1 | Jul 10, 2008 04:25pm | #21

   my general concern was not a dishwasher vent, but when you open the door and the blast of steam comes up

11. 
    susiekitchen | Jul 11, 2008 01:22am | #22

    Yup. My new DW vents out the front, so it's not as big a problem, but the steam still goes up. Water/steam and the particle board substrate are not buddies.

    A full bullnose on the edge can help some, but moisture can get in anywhere, so it's not a perfect fix.

    There are postformed tops that have substrate made with an adhesive that's more water-resistent, just as there are those with chemical-resistent laminate. They are special order, and will be pricier than the normal stuff.