I have a owner who has some pipes in the basement that are wrapped with asbestos covering. They are trying to sell the house and a realtor advised them that the asbestos covering needs to be removed or sealed. Is there a way of sealing the asbestos to make the house able to be sold without a ton of cost?
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Replies
hire an asbesots company. sealing is is a temporary solution but effective.
Sealing is just fine, but you've got a PR problem, too.
I had customer A who handed me a mask, warning me that he had asbestos in his basement. I put it on, and warily started down the steps, picturing piles of dust.
Turned out that his steam pipes were wrapped. Just a typical installation, and no big hazard.
I've got customer B who is an environmental scientist who has done a lot of abatement for industry, including the Big Three. He is very cautious. But when I open up a wall or a floor in his house and discover asbestos wrap, he just hits it with any old leftover paint to seal it up. No big deal.
You, however, have it exposed and visible in the basement, so it's safe to assume that a significant percentage of buyers will be like customer A. People like that will probably just keep walking, which will cost your clients.
Get a bid from a reputable abatement contractor so that your clients can weigh their options. In this market, you don't want ANY barriers to a sale!
AitchKay
Sealing or containment can be much better than removal.
They have found that even with the best removal jobs end up with more lose fibers than what they started with.
A couple of years ago TOH did a kitchen remodel in Chicago. They found asbestos covered heating pipes.
The covered with a "fabric" soaked in a "resin". I am not sure, but I don't think that it was fiberglass and epoxy, but it might have been.
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
I agree, but try telling that to all those potential buyers who walk away.AitchKay
Bill: A lifetime ago - 1984 - I lived in a 100 yr old house on an Army installation. They were going to go through about 100 sets of quarters & do an asbestos removal job. Held a big town meeting of all affected. You'd a'thought they were planning to march everyone into an oven. I was in a related job that once had a lot of association w/ fibrous contamination so knew the true risk of the job from the way the remediation contractor would do it. Finally after hearing more whining & crying than in a maternity ward, I stood up & volunteered my house to be done first - further, I invited everyone interested to visit the place before during & after it was done. I also suggested that they put sample collectors in my kitchen on the first floor to determine what happened DURING the job. They also sampled outside the house before, during & after the job.Results were interesting - outside levels were higher in all three samples. There was absolutely no increases in the house during the job & the level inside after was the same as before. They started by placing a plastic bag around the pipes somehow, making a slit lengthwise down the top, saturated the insulation w/ a detergent concentrated water, allowed it to soak thoroughly then cutting the insulation away & letting it fall into the bag. Bags were doubled, taped tightly & carried out of the house. When the asbestos was removed, someone came back in & re-insulated the pipes w/ magnesia, I think. Looked really neat! Took them a day.Now - this was a Gummint contract, swarmed over by environmental weenies all the time. They built a PE tunnel from the basement up the stairs & out through the back door. They were probably as cautious as a bio-hazard lab. Joe Citizen would never get that kind of treatment, nor could he afford it. But...it can be done w/o losing a jillion fibers in the house.BTW: Not a single person ever came by my house to view the job. Don't know if it was from fear or indifference.DonDon Reinhard
The Glass Masterworks
"If it scratches, I etch it!"
Having spent a few yrs in the abatement industry(17yrs) and to answer the question of wrapping the pipes there are several methods. You could purchase a material called CP11 and paint it on. You could also purchase something like wrap and cure which is like a cast. You wet it down and wrap it around the pipes. I have also seen them encased in a pvc wrap like which would be used to wrap fiberglass pipe insulation.
Even just trying to wrap these will result in releasing fibers and should be done by a reputable, trained and licensed professional.
First thing to do is to bring a sample to a testing lab to determine the type and percentage of asbestos you are dealing with. Some are not as friable as others nor do they contain as much of a percentage of asbestos and could be down played to a perspective buyer.
A good abatement contractor can do the removal without leaving behind a mess. The problem with home abatement is that it typically is not overseen as well and contractors or workers tend to cut allot of corners. It is or at least in Minnesota is a very crooked industry. There are good contractors out there though.
Educate yourself on the practices if you are going to attempt it yourself or hire a contractor. At least with some knowledge at hand you may be able to keep the contractor in check to do a better job.
Hope this helps,
Jeb
Paint it. That will help seal in the fibers, then hope for a RE agent thats not an idiot.
I agree that its better to seal it than remove it. This way you're not disturbing it at all.
I'm jaded towards the hazards of Asbestos. I had a safety course a long time ago. The instructor mentioned the only way Asbestos caused cancer in lab rats was to actually cut them open and sew a piece inside them.
I do agree that constant exposure would lead to major problems down the road, but I also believe that the whole thing has been way overblown.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
Edited 1/24/2009 3:07 pm ET by MSA1
Unbleached muslin (available at most fabric shops) soaked in wallpaper paste. Wrap and let dry. Paint to taste.
Had a client, ER Surgeon, she wrapped her own pipes with cast material. Wet and wrap, hard as a rock, great containment and not very expensive, Did I say it was also VERY neat.
I think you only have to do something w/ it if it is in a friable condition ... i.e. falling apart, damaged, etc. If it is intact and in good shape, I don't think you are required ... practically or by law, to abate through removal or sealing.
Sealing is one approach. The potential downside from the buyer's perspective might be that if it is sealed and later he has to do maintenance (e.g. repair/replace a valve), he will have to tear into it ... which could be an expensive endeavor depending on the laws, etc.
Nice to get answers all over the map.......but all are true to a certain degree. If Jeb did it for 17 years I might go that way. Me, only once after asking the building dept. about it. (you are not ratting yourself out--there is alot around in floor, drywall mud, etc.)
Dust is the biggest problem and you don't want to inhale it. All I had to do was wrap the stuff with self adhesive metallic 2" tape and paint it with latex paint. Got a Tyvek suit and fancy respirator with repaceable file cartriges and charged it to doing that job.
Everybody was happy. Didn't cost a zillion bucks and the respirator is great when poking around attics with insulation and that ever present microscopic dust--notice your body cluing you in with coughing etc. And that's not asbestos.
Another client had a two car, concrete block garage to tear down. Code required I hire a lab to take little samples from the exterior, process them in a lab and provide a report to the city before they would issue the permit. Added about $200 to the job and I markup all sub work so other than the hassle factor it worked out OK--did it all with a Bobcat and 5 ton truck I own.
Watch out if you have any older powder mix for spackle or setting up type compound around--it probably has asbestos fibers in it. Asbestos made it go on smoother but when you had to do a little sanding you inhaled the dust--not good. Tyr
Is there any replacement insulation material for steam pipes that insulates as good or better than the asbestos types they were originally insulated with?
Is there any replacement insulation material for steam pipes that insulates as good or better than the asbestos types they were originally insulated with?
Fiberglass or foam tubes. I don't know about the insulation properties though.
~ Ted W ~
Cheap Tools - BuildersTools.netSee my work - TedsCarpentry.com
Edited 1/25/2009 6:06 pm by Ted W.
Encapsulation is generally the recommended procedure, depending on existing conditions. Latex paint can be sufficient in some cases, I believe.
Yeah, some folks freak when they hear the "A" word.
Every house older than '78 is gonna have asbestos - check the EPA web site for a listing of the common building products containing asbestos.
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