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What about rockers and painters who use the tubs and showers as urinals and crappers?
Cover up those e-outlets!
Put an electric fence up to keep the b**tardsoff your freshlay. Works!!
What in the hay did they put rock on your tub and shower surrounds anywho? (regional diffs–doesn’t anyone scratch and brown nowadays)
Where in the hay is that rubber mallet bitch!! Get off the damn tile!! (walk backwards!!! from whence you came!!
Been there, done that Rich. 25 years ago…..not much has changed except the brand of fast-food at the bottom of the heap in the tub, eh? Sharpen that #54 margie, practice your aim every chance you get and TEACH them a little RESPECT.
Jeff
Replies
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What about rockers and painters who use the tubs and showers as urinals and crappers?
Cover up those e-outlets!
Put an electric fence up to keep the b**tardsoff your freshlay. Works!!
What in the hay did they put rock on your tub and shower surrounds anywho? (regional diffs--doesn't anyone scratch and brown nowadays)
Where in the hay is that rubber mallet bitch!! Get off the damn tile!! (walk backwards!!! from whence you came!!
Been there, done that Rich. 25 years ago.....not much has changed except the brand of fast-food at the bottom of the heap in the tub, eh? Sharpen that #54 margie, practice your aim every chance you get and TEACH them a little RESPECT.
Jeff
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Had a tile setter who had gotten some " Police Crime Scene....Do Not Cross" banner tape. It worked. Everyone stayed off the tile ! Didn't like the tile setter, he was the best at his job...just ask him. But I did like his banner tape.
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Wait now, What about the tin knockers who cut the floor registers with the chain saw, From above!!! "What about that chalk line and row of nails," I asked? "Oh, don't worry Ill just cut around them." Well, time to go get some more 2x10's.
I also had one where a nail beater only put one nail thru the top and bottom plates claiming that once the wall was stood the load would be under compression so it didn't need the extra nails.
Has any one found a stock number or supplier of recessed medicine cabinets with a notch for the vent pipe from the sink below?
Or how would you like that heated toilet? You know the one that is powered by the hot water heater.
How many shut off valves do you need for a kitchen sink? Is it four or five per foot of run?
Is there an electrician reading that can tell me why a person would want to flip a switch at the sink that turns on and off the disposal, stove and refrigerator, simultaneously?
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David, what a hoot! And how about the light box for the kitchen flourescents blocking the upper cab doors from opening? What about the toilet flange in the middle of the bottom plate? Or the 2040 window installed right where the stairway landing goes? You know, half and half.
Anyone know of a concrete finisher who can get the slab around the toilet even somewhat flat?
*Oh Rich have you started something!How about a "custom builder thats wants you to just do it this way and you have to fix it when it fails.Or your sub sents this painters to you and they don't speak any english? The carpenter that you're interviewing say's "I cut my treads at 16' my up pieces (his term) at 12" and adjust as needed" and who bills himself as a master carpenter.(Hey he watched all of Norms shows, how hard can it be) Dry wall guys who clean there tools in the new stainless sink and leave the mess. Painters who paint everthing but the wall.(had one who walked paint over a new unfinished oak floor)I can go on and on, but as I see more small sub's (two guys one pu truck and one drywall bucket of rusted tools) the work seems to get worst. GC's who have no one on site and want the subs to run the job and solve there problems for free all the time and still can't pay you on time. We won't start on the endless punchlist's."Where did all the good carpenters go to"Bill CurryCurry Construction
*So, let me see if I have this right: everyone wants a good job, just no one seems to understand the conundrum presented when they say they want it "fast and good". Just because Henry Ford was able to do this with the automobile doesn't mean it will work with buildings. Besides, look at the tract houses of yesteryear (row houses). They're still standing and worthy of the home tours. Good 'ol economics has mandated a dictum which can be stated as "down and dirty". Too many tradesmen have bought into this style of thinking, either through its inherent appeal or downright ignorance of any other way. Perhaps you too have heard of contractors taking their final payment to the owner's bank, or workers saying, "We've always done it this way".It used to be the one who couldn't speak the English language was the best worker on the job. Don't get racist on me; I'm only working my way to my point. What advice do you give the legit contractor when he is faced with below-board competition? Well, I mean other than "Go faster".I caught one of my competitors (we used to be friends) keeping two sets of books on Public Works projects. Another uses illegal aliens, pays them cash, and houses them three to a room in a garage.My neighbor right now is caught in the middle of a hellish squabble 'tween the GC and the structural engineer. The GC wants the owner to sue the SE, the SE insists his calcs are correct, but the GC bought the wrong 40' beams.The GC wants the owner to pony up another $7K (1/10 the total project) because the GC missed on the drywall. So, the walls look like you know what. The plumber must be paid by the foot, or so it seems, looking at his work. The staircase looks like it has the porportions of something out of Alice In Wonderland, the same carpenter put in a 24"--as in height--door to the balcony deck and called it good, and the subfloor looks like it was pieced together from the scraps of the last five jobs. The brand new roofline has a serious hump in the valley and the flashing is way, way wrong.My poor neighbor, she does not understand my hesitation to give her a bid for my trade. After all this, I still hear that popular refrain, "Why is your bid so much higher?"
*I'm a small GC and do most of the work myself. I take pride in my work and do it because I love the work. I stand behind what I do and will fix it or eat it if a custumer is not happy with how I've done something. Having said that I think I might just go get a job. I am increasingly sick and tired of being a Rebel with out a Cause (self employed). Reading your posts just confirms my suspicions that I am beating my head against a wall.One thing I have been doing with subs is if they are honest and I know I can work with them, I just have them deal directly with the custumer. For the little bit of markup I can make it saves a lot of head aches. I even avoided a lawsuit. A carpet company I use laid a large commercial job I had, they did not glue the carpet to stair risers well enough. The business kept trying to get them to fix them and they did some but others kept coming loose, someone fell and broke several bones and sued. I was no part of the carpet companies contract, I only suggested their name.I'm sure I could have made money from their work, but I would have had to deal with getting paid for them, paying them, answering the phone and getting chewed out for call backs, probably fixing callbacks myself, getting sued, etc. This is not to mention before I turned it over to the carpet company, I was back and forth getting samples and playing carpet salesman, 2-3 trips and I told the contact to talk to them directly.I now use this approach a lot. I know a good electrician and plumber and it is easier to have them deal with the people particularly residental. I think it helps keep everyone more competitve. I still tend to run the show, but these guys are friends and I'm there anyway most of the time to let them in.
*A new business in my town is called Contractor Connection, and it serves as a go-between for homeowners and contractors. It's doing quite well.
*After reading this thread and in between the belly laughs, I remembered some of the reasons why I decided to do most of the work on my house myself. A major factor was the seemingly endless horror stories from some of my contempories on their house building adventures. To be fair not everyone has had problems, in fact an aquaintence at work seems to have found a very conscientious general contractor. His house is nearly finished and it has proceeded on schedule with minimal problems and the budget hasn't been blown either. On the flip side was the story of a vacation home project. A beautiful setting next to a mountain river, the owner wanted to take advantage of the scenery. The house had a very large overhang above a deck and high vaulted ceilings. The exterior wall between the great room and the deck was largely windows. A beautiful piece of exposed glu-lam supported the ridge. The beam was supported in 3 places, the loft wall inside the house, by a post inside the exterior wall where the beam passed through and finally by a 3rd post outside of the house at the edge of the deck. The contractor didn't have a crane on site so instead of hiring one, he cut the glu-lam into two parts with a "chain saw", to install it. Granted he put the splice on top of the post in the exterior wall, but the beam was exposed so the ugly joint was quite visible. Incidently he (the contractor) didn't get the location of the post correct, so rather than being hidden within the wall it was now a bump out on the wall. If that was the only goofs, one could have excused them as just a temporary brain infarction but the list went on and on. They installed the roof sheeting by nailing the 4 corners and calling it good and it was difficult to find a square corner in the whole building. The front entrance had a large overhang supported by two posts. The connection details to the posts were each different and they had started a small fire in the overhang with a cutting torch while trimmng a support beam. What was really ironic is that the home owner was one of the engineers/designers for this fairly large construction company. He had mistakenly thought that he was going to get quality work from his own company. He eventually fired his own company and hired a local carpenter to finish it. The local carpenter was the one that showed us some of the special touches left by the previous bunch.
*
How about:
1. The sub framer I hired who didn't put a string line on the rafters. Darn things looked liked pretzels after the job was decked.
2. The tilesetter who was, unknown to me, an alcoholic. I litterally made him stay after work and have a "few beers with the boys". He went on a three week drunk, and we never saw him again. Oops.
3. The master framer I hired to assist me in a new roof, who couldn't figure a single pitched rafter, let alone a double pitched one.
4. The electrician I hired who used 14-2 throughout the house, even on outlets. Speaking of electricians, ever seen one that is better than 75% on getting grounds to outlets? I check every one now.
5. The drywall sub that didn't bother to cut the drywall stud to stud? Just taped over the loose ends, and called it a day.
6. The so-called reputable steel company that sent 20 steel tyers to my job site without any steel being present (they were in charge of that too), then charged me $50 per head for waiting time, then filed a mechanics lien when we disputed the bill.
7. The cabinet maker that built the boxes just fine, except there were no shelf holes or standards. I guess he smoked a little too much pot on that day, huh?
I am starting to get with the same program as J.D. is in. I know the quality of my work, and it is just hard to vouch for the quality of others, and if it is truly a separate project (carpet, electrical) and I can pass off on the customer, I'd rather have the customer deal with the sub directly. The $500 I make is not worth the hand holding and liability issues. However, most of my customers insist that for the same above reasons, they will pay me just about anything to deal with these clowns.
5.
*Barry, as a general contractor looking for additional business and maybe as a way to move off the battle front I am interested in this Contractor Connection. I have thought of this concept myself in the past. Any additional info you can give me on this would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Don
*
Don,
Give me a fax number or address by e-mail and I'll send you the literature I was given. Would also enjoy your feedback, as I'm preparing an article on the subject for our local paper.
Barry
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Barry,
[email protected]
Thanks, Don
*Barry your info would be appreciated. Fax me at 204-895-2527.Thanks. Tim.
*
Don,
Need a fax number or address. The stuff I have is hard copy, and no scanner in the budget as yet.
Recent story: I spent a couple of hours last week chatting with a local contractor friend of mine at his office (also scarfed half his pizza), and we traded stories about contractor/homeowner problems. He told me that he no longer offers "free quotations." Instead, he offers "free consultations," meaning that he wants to work a bit with the homeowner, and an estimate may not be the result. For a recent siding "consultation," he told the homeowner he'd need an hour or so of her time. She demanded to know why, as the other two contractors she had contacted just showed up at her door with quotes, taking up none of her time. She reluctantly agreed to meet with him, and, as my friend was walking her around the house pointing out things and asking questions, she then wanted to know why the other two contractors hadn't done this. Afterward, she contacted the earlier quoters, citing my friend's specifications, and was told that, gee whiz, to do *those* things would cost a whole lot more. My friend thinks the contractors intentionally low-balled the lady with the likely intention of bringing up the extras once the present siding was ripped off. He also factors in hidden damage costs (rotted wood, capenter ants, etc.) in his siding estimates, if he sees potential signs of it, then takes them out of the billing if the damage wasn't there. So, he often isn't the lowest bidder at the outset, but he gets more work than he and his three crews can handle, and he maintains good customer relations.
Now, how about the "professional" roofing contractor who cruises fifteen year old neighborhoods, telling homeowners that all of the roofs in their neighborhood need replacing? He evens climbs up on the roof and shows where the soft spots are -- "Whew, ma'am, I almost fell through there. This one's in real bad shape." It's happened here.
Barry
*Barry,I would also like your info Fax 607 829 2731 Thanks Vince
*Barry thanks again for the fax. It's an interesting idea.I think I'd have some questions for Rick though. Vince
*
J.D.,
Interesting ideas. I am also a small renovations contractor, and do most of the work myself. Allowing owners to hire their own subs (plumbers, electricians, etc.) has been a problem for me. Without fail, it seems to fall on me (as the carpenter) to make all the little descisions about what goes where and how. I have found myself in situations where I had to spend quite a bit of time (time that was not budgeted for) coordinating the flow of work and looking after the little odds and ends that turn out not to be in anyone else's "job description". Some of these guys just don't think ahead; a short-cut that saves them 10 minutes might create an hour's extra work for me when it comes down to the interior finish.
There seems to be an increasing trend towards owners being their own GC's. Some do so because they are genuinely interested in being involved in the process. Provided they have some knowledge of how the process works, and are prepared to assume the responsibilities
b and liabilities
involved, this can work. Some, however, do so simply to avoid paying a contractor's fee, believing (I suppose) that they can throw a bunch of sub-trades into a room together and the job will get done. In short, they want to be the contractor until things go haywire, at which point they will want to hold everone else reponsible.
If a customer doesn't appreciate the value of planning and coordination, the job is bound to become a circus, and I probably won't want to be associated with it no matter how well my tail is covered. I like to eat as much as the next guy, but sometimes it is in everyone's best interest (both mine and the customer's) to pass up a job.
Steven
*
Steven,you could be the wisest man in the GC buisness amen.Vince
*Your friend sounds like a hell of an estimator. I loath low balling estimates and and extremely loath admitting I missed something in the original. If this were acceptable additions on houses would cost $100.00 except you didn't want a roof, or a foundation, or walls, or windows, or a floor, or etc.I wonder why this business has a bad rep. I further wonder why I now do only small, interior, commercial work.
*I agree. I am able to tend to sell the guys I like to work with. This means that I am able to control things. If someone wants to hire their own plumber it really then is up to them to be there and pay the extra's said plumber causes. My system is not to let people get who ever they want necessarily, it is more to have them in touch with them, and paying them direct. If I can get people I know and like to sub for the people in question my oversight is minimal and I don't have to worry about their bills.I also am more competetive as I am not tacking on a nominal charge (usually insurance extras), and I have found some people like to directly pay others as they are less suspicious that I'm marking up excessively.It is not the only way I do things and it depends on the customer, but the next time someone starts after you as to why the electric seems so high, you will feel better about them getting another price. I would hate to lose a whole job because I tacked on too much to another sub and made it seem I was the high price because his price was out of line with others. I would say that I'm a SMALL contractor. I would also say that if someone wants me to handle the whole thing and is not worried about every penny, I won't screw them, but I will coordinate everything for a price.I seem to also end up making alot of decisions where this or that goes, whether I get paid or not. For me it tends not to be worth making a fuss. Either it is something that can wait till the next day when I have had a chance to ask the customer or I make the decision and sell the people as to why it is best.P.S. IF you run into those that are being difficult before the bid is submitted, RUN, DON'T WALK, RUN. Of course this came from people much smarter than I. I occasionally do things for money. Those damn Human frailties keep getting in the way.
*Sounds familiar. I have a small custom woodworking shop, pretty new in a place far away from where I trained. I just finished up our biggest job here so far, and I'm in the position of having to start acting as the contractor because of some of the bozos out there, or close up. Get this: two carpenters working five months+ to put up an 8' by24' single story addition. An electrician who couldn't locate his pot lights on site from a floorplan, so I had to do it for him from the shop, and who hadn't heard yet about ways to insulate pots in a roof space. Plumbers who tried to charge for work I did, because they were off someplace hiding. Etc,etc,etc. There are good tradesmen, and bad, but why are there all of a sudden so many bad? I'm writing from Canada, where we still have an apprenticeship system that until recently I thought worked.
*
Steven I-
There are a lot of "bad" tradesmen out there because fewer and fewer intelligent and motivated people are entering the trades. I don't know about Canada, but it seems that here in the US schools and parents are pushing the four year degree to young people. Blue collar, physical work is somehow perceived as a second rate career, something for the lower classes. And I believe we are seeing so many bad tradesmen now because nearly every contrtactor out there is absolutely desperate for any help he can get. Also, we seem to have abandoned any sort of apprenticeship program here in the US. The fast paced boom that we are in doesn't leave any time for a mentor/apprentice relationship.
*All you have to do is read the port-o-can walls to know that you are working alonside some of the scumiest, disrespectful creatures in the universe.
*
So true !! The worst thing I think about it is that even with there 4 year degree, they still don't have simple skills and/or common knowledge. What happens when there sink plugs up? They call a plummer, without even trying to run a snake through it. Sad shame!
*Barry,My fax # is 440-235-4255, Thanks cc
*Off subject, but since they are chasing many good lumber yards out of business, Home Depot and buying wood with price tags on it. I can't believe how bewildered the help looks if there is no tag on an item. "Is that a 2 x 4?"
*Alright, bashing Home Depot(I'm not familiar enough with them to refer to them by their initials).Whenever a customer starts talking about Home Depot, I wince, probably roll my eyes, and commence to talk them out of such silly thoughts.F'rinstance; do you think you can go back and actually find a match for that tile? The local Home Depot has so many "one day sales" that it is pretty near impossible to come out with any savings, on average. So, you think you got such a great deal? Look closer, they price their tile PER PIECE, most tile is priced PER SQUARE FOOT. Naturally, most tile is going to be less per piece than per square foot.As for me going to Home Depot to realise any percieved savings: I don't relish the idea of going through the hassle of returning some item. At the local yard I can actually talk to a knowledgeable person who could actually show me some product literature before buying/ordering.For crying outloud, even some of the mail orders are more responsive/knowledgeable than those orange shirts.
*A lot of truth there but where else can you find a copper elbow and some solder at 2:00am? Sometimes they are they are ok - but usually its because they are open and regular suppliers aren't.
*
Home Despot has ruined many of the local vendors I have worked with over the last 20+ years, if they are not out of biz then it's way down. I've found that if client's want to shop there after I've tried to talk them out of it, I'm less interested in the job. The only things I'm tempted to buy are the loss leaders (name brand item for sale at just above their cost to get you into the store) and then leave. It serves only the corperate mentality to give money (and in our trades we spend a lot to do jobs)to the despot and let the money move to the corperate center instead of staying in my area. What is the value of community? I for one am willing to pay a bit more for it.
*Here! Here! And while we're on the subject, why are we using junior/community colleges to teach the subjects that students should have learned in high school? We're creating a generation of boneheads who think that college is a 4-5 (or more) high school extension course, and use it to put off doing anything truly constructive. As a grad student in civil engineering, I had the pleasure of TA'ing a class of 50 undergraduates, 90% of whom had no business being anywhere near an engineering school, much less (God forbid) practicing.
*
Fred,
Some of those "boneheads", as you say, sure feel good about their status as students at the community colleges. I often hear the exclamation, "My professor says......" Seems as tho those fine institutions of higher education are quite lax about bestowing (well the boneheads are fooled, anyway) the title of "Professor" to those you and I probably experienced as "Lecturer" at the four year university. Needless to say, I've learned to bite my tongue.
Brian
*What scares me is that with his 4 year degree TROY doesn't know the difference between their and there and that a plummer is really a plumber.
*
i'm sure y'all have some more kvetching to do...
*
Sean
Kvetching. . . that would be yiddish for. . . peeping Tom?
*
OK, I can play this game too!
1. How about the t*rd herder who ran his 4 inch
drain from a wc by notching it into 6 (in a row)
2 x 10 joists?
2. or the site super who thought it would be OK if
they fixed it up by scabbing 2 x 2's onto the
bottom of the joists?
3. Have you ever seen a floor drain at the highest
point in the floor?
4. Have you ever seen a set of patio doors installed
backwards (with the aluminium exterior on the inside)?
5. Have you ever had a labourer remove the nails
holding in a set of stairs while he was standing
on the stairs. He was offended when I told him that
was as dumb as cutting off a branch while sitting
on it!
6. Have you ever watched cribbers spend a day
setting up forms and then let their truck roll
into the forms, knocking them all to h*ll?
7. Watched another group of cribbers setting
joists using terms like 1/2 of 1/4(inch)?
Aw, this is too easy!
cheers
*american, from yiddish 'kvetschn', from german 'quetschen'to complain, esp. chronically ;)I wish webmasters had an outlet like this.
*
simon,
"I am whats I am" just from some early years wrong side branch deals...6 years old, maybe...
Even better, we had a nice fat rope tied high in a tree for swinging on...As the "how do we improve upon ways to climb trees" brain storms began, we tried this all to clever idea. The big kid on the block climbs up the tree, I have him tie into one end of our big rope...I tie in on ground. Then it's simple, he jumps off one side of branch (twenty feet off ground) and I will fly up into tree! Only one small problem; Anyway he jumps and augers into the ground! Well we're all in hysterics laughing, Big Jim is breathless, thought he died, wants to cry but has to join the laughing hysterics.
What happened you might ask? The branch didn't break but for some reason we didn't know the rope was long enough to reach the ground without lifting me an inch.
Whats the originol topic here?
Jack : )
*
Raise your hand if you have ever installed drywall right down to the subfloor in a shower stall. How about NOT installing blocking in the stud bays at the apron of a tub? See, the drywaller sticks in a sliver nailed only to the bottom plate so when I hang the lath I sometimes put a biggo hole in the drywall. Naturally, it is in the painted, exposed portion of the wall.
And what about getting the electrician putting all his openings at the same elevation in the countertop backsplash. You'd think it was against code.
Hoo boy, now I'm really firing! How come it is up to me alone to keep the shower stall from being used as a trash receptacle?
Why doesn't anyone know enough to not walk on wet tile? Yellow tape and barricades don't work.
I have tried talking with the GC and the different subs and gotton the stink eye for my efforts. We all want to do the very best, right? What gives?
Sounds like I work on tracts, right? Well, I refuse to do tracts, these are the custom, one-off homes I'm talking about.
Let me hear it, folks!
*
Sorry Jack; I just can't top that one!!
Obviously, Big Jim wasn't the brains behind that operation! I hope your friendship lasted, because he is sure to have needed good friends just to get through life!
It took me a while to quit laughing.